Tactics Under Maresca

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, southfox66 said:

I think thing would look better if we had a striker who is going to constistly score Nacho seems no better than he was in the premier, Vardy sadly has past his best and you can't rewind time, Daka  is just waste of space, so our hopes rest on Connor ?

No striker is going to consistently score if they don't get any chances

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, glen parva fox said:

Come on Vestergaard in Defence, no pace, easily beaten, Lucky opposing strikers are not Prem standard definitely a liability 

There's more to defending than pace.  Honestly, the 'vestergaard is shit' argument has almost no substance anymore; time to accept that, like it or not, he's doing a really good job and, if memory serves, there were no moments against hull where we were done for pace.

 

Edit: also, we're not 'lucky' that the opposing strikers are not prem standard - we're not in the prem, we're defending against what's in front of us - this is the standard we have to deal with.

Edited 3 September 2023 by Lillehamring

[Lillehamring]

47 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Chill man. No harm in saying when an opposition manager has tactically adapted. Particularly given my comment was about their attacking shape in the first instances. 
 

We are in the top five for shots in the league yet our xG within the bottom seven. Which pretty sums up our game here. Lots of shots taken from positions not threatening enough to the keeper. XG ratings were highest for Casadei’s two chances and Kelechi’s blocked first half attempt 
 

 

I thought it was a calm and considered response, at least compared to some of the paranoid, knee-jerk panicky shit elsewhere - i just don't think Hull can take any credit for their defensive work, even if he did nail the delap/doyle match up.

[LinekersLugs]

19 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

How's the 'virus' situation these days?

Squashed ….. 

[Lillehamring]

14 minutes ago, southfox66 said:

I think thing would look better if we had a striker who is going to constistly score Nacho seems no better than he was in the premier, Vardy sadly has past his best and you can't rewind time, Daka  is just waste of space, so our hopes rest on Connor ?

To be fair, daka hasn't really been given a chance to show how he can play as a #9 under maresca - maybe the liverpool game?

[Lillehamring]

2 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said:

Squashed ….. 

Which is...good? 

[adamkhalifa]

I'm no footballing connoisseur, but haven't we trying to adopt the Man City, style of play since Puel. Keep ball, passing around the defence. 

 

 

[oz was my hero]

1 hour ago, glasgowfox said:

Hope so mate. Never made it due to covid ( I know you can) but 600 mile round trip feeling like shit has little enjoyment even if we had won.  Back on the saddle soon tho.  We all have to manage our expectations as we have to in life.  I bizarrely like being in the championship, however, absolutely loved being in the premier league, we will be back but it may not be soon enuf for some of the glory boys on here....keep the faith but for longer than a month 

Absolutely  have to manage our expectations.  No team has the right to piss this division. Just need to look at other results.  Speedy recovery and next time ya down hope you leave a happy chap.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

You have to remember that when you're learning something new, it isn't yet a natural process - when i first start to play a new song, for example, whilst i'm still learning the chords, i don't sing so good, when the chords become second nature, then suddenly the singing improves.

 

Right now, the focus is on the build up and ball recovery, whilst they are concentrating on this it's natural that their shooting will suffer.

So we now blame the Spanish fat Lady….

She ain’t yet started to sing…

bloody women,they only do something …. when they’re ready!!

or after washing their hair?

[fuchsntf]

14 minutes ago, oz was my hero said:

Absolutely  have to manage our expectations.  No team has the right to piss this division. Just need to look at other results.  Speedy recovery and next time ya down hope you leave a happy chap.

I wonder After this weekend,how Norwich,Soton,Ipswich fans are writing about

[BenTayfour]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

You lost me at 'Justin'

Why ?

[Lillehamring]

4 minutes ago, BenTayfour said:

Why ?

Because he's done nothing to prove he's playing well enough to be a regular in the first team - i've discussed this in the justin thread, and even earlier here, i'm not going over it again.  He's not the answer.

[oz was my hero]

9 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

You said no reason, but he must be able to explain why? Surely just can't hate him for existing. The man is beautiful. Got to at least appreciate his smile.

 

I'm not seeing hatred around me, but just unrest at not being able to break the teams down more easily. I think after so much time of Brendan ball (and its ultimate relegation) has made people a little weary of this strategy. Until is clicks, people are going to be restless. 

Some fans seem to just want a Sunday league division six game of every ball has to go forward at 100mph. Guy near me yesterday screaming all game "get it in the box" . Imo if that's how we played we'd  be mid table come may. Teams are going to sit deep against us so we need to be clever. Kel being a focal point and players interchanging in danger areas.  Agree it hasn't clicked yet , imo down to KDH and wilf being sloppy on the ball. Would like to see casadei in there and possibly praet when fit or mcateer. Also  malvididi and fatuwa dragging  the full backs  about. If it clicks and becomes 2nd nature we will tear someone  apart.

[The_Rorab]

I think one thing that can be difficult to reconcile as a fan watching us right now is the thin line between adaptation and proficiency.

 

From the looks of it, we are currently in a natural period where Maresca has been relatively tactically inflexible, and this is ostensibly because both he has his identity and style of football and he is attempting to bed that style into the squad.

 

As a result he likely doesn't want to make changes or any drastic alterations because he believes his tactic will create chances and also the more they familiarise with it the better we should theoretically get, even if in the short-term it doesn't always work out.

 

I don't expect to see him mess around with anything tactically for a good while, even if there are particularly bad games. If things spiral or just never pick up to a particularly high level I'd hope then that some form of adaptation of tactics might occur - but that'll be the test of his capabilities as a manager if and when things aren't going our way.

 

Currently though we're very much solely in the gaining proficiency stage of the tactical setup - I think ostensibly because whilst he could adapt things game-by-game in the way that we, seeing the game and how it pans out might feel would make us better, but too much change too fast when we've only just started to learn a certain tactical style could be detrimental to that instilling of fluency.

 

Which can be frustrating to watch - but fingers crossed it actually benefits us long-term

[Matt]

2 hours ago, adamkhalifa said:

I'm no footballing connoisseur, but haven't we trying to adopt the Man City, style of play since Puel. Keep ball, passing around the defence. 

 

 

This, quite simply.

 

And in my opinion, what we’re currently seeing albeit not perfect but the furthest away from it it’s been since we’ve been attempting it, long may it continue.

 

(“Trying” in your words, “attempting” in mine being the key words.)

 

Edited 4 September 2023 by Matt

[SafewayFox]

14 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

He's nothing like he was before his injury. 

 

I don't understand why people are so keen to make changes in our defence -  we've played 5 games and conceded 4 goals - one a deflection, one a worldie, one off a corner and one where we really should have prevented it.  Realistically this is an entirely new back four and we have the 6th lowest xGA in the league.  Give them time, improve our ball recovery further up the pitch and we'll be extremely hard to score against, especially if coady raises the level by his return.

We also have played teams that from the first 5 games are currently 19th, 20th and 21st (all losing 3 out of 5)

 

 

[Claudio Fannieri]

The tactics and gameplan are working to a degree, our high 8’s and wide forwards are getting lots of the ball and we are getting into postions where our attacking players are isolating defenders and getting into lots of one on ones and wide overloads where the 8 and wide forward can link up to create opportunities to get crosses into the box of like Fatawu to cut inside and get a shot at goal. However at the moment the 8’s in particular are lacking composure so often the final ball isn’t of the required standard and the move breaks down. 
 

I actually believe the structure and patterns of play are very good in terms of how we move the ball into the final 3rd, we seem to do it very well, we know need to refine our output in the final third, if we can do that then I don’t think we are far away from being a very good side. 

[adejo92]

19 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

You can't have an objective conversation on this forum anymore because any slight criticism of the club or areas for improvement are jumped on by the same old posters who deny any problems exist. Was the same under Rodgers too. Complete and utter denial of any issues. 

 

Nobody's calling for Maresca's head are they? They're simply pointing out that this kind of result was due after the nature of some/all of our wins this season. Certain players really struggle with ball retention and our creation of high end chances are slim. Choose to ignore it all you like but there's discussions to be had

Hallelujah!

 

Ultimately,  it's not the loss that's bothered anyone. If we get promoted, who's going to remember a 1-0 defeat to Hull 5 games in...no one.

 

The issue is that we've got a relatively inexperienced manager trying to teach a mostly average squad a very precise & ability reliant style of football.

 

Yannik Vestergaard is not Ruben Dias and Kelachi Iheanacho is not Erling Haaland.

 

We haven't looked very good at all this season and we certainly haven't been deserving of some of our victories - heavily benefiting from very poor opposition finishing.

 

Am I wanting Enzo gone, absolutely not - I like him as a manager, he's passionate & trying to implement his style of play which will take time.

 

Do I have concerns that he won't be able to implement his style of play properly with this squad? Yes.

 

I can't believe that anyone is actually surprised by the defeat to Hull.

 

[Bayfox]

1 minute ago, adejo92 said:

Hallelujah!

 

Ultimately,  it's not the loss that's bothered anyone. If we get promoted, who's going to remember a 1-0 defeat to Hull 5 games in...no one.

 

The issue is that we've got a relatively inexperienced manager trying to teach a mostly average squad a very precise & ability reliant style of football.

 

Yannik Vestergaard is not Ruben Dias and Kelachi Iheanacho is not Erling Haaland.

 

We haven't looked very good at all this season and we certainly haven't been deserving of some of our victories - heavily benefiting from very poor opposition finishing.

 

Am I wanting Enzo gone, absolutely not - I like him as a manager, he's passionate & trying to implement his style of play which will take time.

 

Do I have concerns that he won't be able to implement his style of play properly with this squad? Yes.

 

I can't believe that anyone is actually surprised by the defeat to Hull.

 

Peps champagne football.

 

With Brendans vodka and coke players.

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/enzo-maresca-mantra-forgotten-inevitable-8724346

 

Enzo Maresca mantra forgotten as inevitable arrives but Leicester City duo fulfil critical brief
Talking points from Leicester City's 1-0 defeat to Hull, looking at the end of the perfect record, a lack of a plan B, the performances of Kasey McAteer and Abdul Fatawu, and more

ByJordan Blackwell
07:00, 4 SEP 2023

Twenty-one shots is a lot. It’s the most Leicester City have had in a game since the disastrous FA Cup elimination to Blackburn earlier this year, which is also the only other time since crowds came back that they’ve had 20 or more efforts at goal and lost.

Enzo Maresca reflected on City’s shot count against Hull both positively and negatively. He was pleased with the number of efforts his side mustered, less happy that only one required Matt Ingram to make a save.

Of the 21 shots, 12 went wide or over, seven were blocked, one from Abdul Fatawu hit the post, and one from Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall went into Ingram’s hands.

But the problem for City was not just poor finishing, it was poor shot selection. A high shot count does not necessarily mean a team is playing really well if, say, among the efforts there are centre-backs attempting to score from 25 yards with their weaker foot. Isn’t that right, Wout Faes?

In fact, City’s three centre-backs had as many shots as Kelechi Iheanacho and Jamie Vardy did combined, with Callum Doyle also guilty of a wild effort from range. Dewsbury-Hall and Fatawu each had two strikes from distance that didn’t come close.

All in all, only one Championship team had more shots than City this weekend, but nine had higher expected goals totals. Maresca’s men had plenty of efforts, but not plenty of good chances.

But that’s been the story of this season. It’s just that up to now, the few clear openings City have fashioned, they have taken. The performances haven’t been at a level where the wins would keep coming endlessly, and that’s maybe why Maresca has consistently warned that a defeat was inevitable.

In a lot of aspects, the loss to Hull was their best performance so far. Getting into the dangerous areas has been an issue for City this season, but they completed more passes, crosses, and dribbles into the penalty area than in another game this season. And they did match the season-best 10 shots from inside the box they had at Rotherham, with Vardy and Cesare Casadei’s introductions making them a greater threat there.

The caveat is that Hull were leading for 75 minutes. With something to defend, they naturally dropped deep, giving City plenty of opportunity to attack their penalty area.

But the point is that they could have done more. They showed patience in the way they built the game from the back, often returning the ball to Mads Hermansen to start afresh and try to find a new route through Hull. But when they got to the final third, particularly in the first half, they often tried audacious efforts from distance rather than seek a route into the box, like their composure deserted them in the final third.

As Maresca said before a ball had even been kicked, “the only way to score goals is to arrive in the box”. It’s a message the players need to remember when they’re lining one up 30 yards from goal.

 

Don't hold out for plan B
There was impatience in the crowd too. Maresca knew this would be the case and has addressed supporters directly already this season to try to limit the groans and grumbles. Sensibly, he knew it was better to make those points when on a winning rather than losing run. Fans are more likely to listen then.

But he’s never going to eliminate all of those murmurs of discontent. Nor is he going to stop the calls for a plan B. It’s the first time City have failed to score this season and so naturally social media was awash with supporters asking if there was another way for them to attack in the games where they were struggling to find the net.

The truth is that there is no plan B, nor will Maresca have any intention of working on one. It does not mean they will stay exactly as they are for the whole of the Italian’s reign. But anything they do will be an evolution from where they currently are.

Maresca feels his idea is the best for success. If another method was more likely to get goals, he would be playing that way from the start. He’s not going to put two strikers on the pitch or ask his defenders to pump it into the box just because the team are trailing with 20 minutes to go. His team will play by his principles no matter what the scoreline is and no matter how long there is left on the clock.

The closest he gets to a plan B is through substitutions, and he has shown a willingness to be proactive in making them. After a quadruple change at half-time in midweek, he made three changes after 55 minutes on Saturday.

So he will look for solutions when things are not going quite to plan, but his answer will never be to stick Jannik Vestergaard up front for the final 15 minutes and launch it forward.

City win out in battle for control
This game had promised to be an intriguing match-up as it was the first time City had faced a side who also liked to dominate the ball. Hull’s average possession coming into the game stood at around 59 per cent, with City’s at 65 per cent.

They couldn’t both have two-thirds so something had to give. Again, possibly because of the state of the game, with Hull ahead, it was City who won out.

Like usual, they had 65 per cent of the ball. That they maintained their control even against a side who looked like they might have their fair share of it further strengthens the argument that Maresca doesn’t need a plan B. It doesn’t seem like there’s going to be any game this term where they can’t play their way.

In fact, the match where they might have the most trouble is the next one, against Southampton. The Saints, averaging 70 per cent of the ball, are the only side who have more possession than City do. That could decide who are the division’s possession kings.

 

Bright wing duo fulfil Maresca objective
Saturday saw two new wingers make their home debuts, taking the tally of wide-men who have featured this season to six. When Harvey Barnes left for Newcastle just over a month ago, City dropped down to one senior winger, but two internal promotions and three signings later, there is more depth there than most other positions in the squad.

And if the adage is true that a player is only as good as their last game, then it should be Kasey McAteer and Abdul Fatawu starting against Southampton in a fortnight’s time. They were City’s two best players against Hull.

They did what wingers should do – and what City need their wingers to do – and attacked their full-backs. Each of them carried the ball into the penalty area on three occasions while the rest of the City squad managed it just three times between them.

Switched over to the left, McAteer’s body feints got Lewie Coyle booked early on and then fooled him to such an extent that he comically tripped over his own feet. He was troubling him every time and while his crosses didn’t always find their mark, it felt like he was substituted prematurely. Maresca said he wanted to refresh his team.

Stephy Mavididi was introduced to the left while Fatawu came on for Yunus Akgun. The Turk had not exhibited the quick feet he possesses, but Fatawu lit the game up. He showed speed, an excellent first touch, and bravery, and came closest to getting an equaliser.

The wingers are integral to City’s success. Against a deep-set defence, they must beat their markers in one-on-ones and disrupt the opposition’s organisation, creating much-needed space in the box. If McAteer and Fatawu keep doing that, they will be the players Maresca picks.

 

City ahead of schedule on Burnley pathway
So while City go into the first international break of the season on the back of a defeat and without occupying top spot, they can be pleased with how the maiden month under Maresca has gone. As he said, he’d have snapped your hand off for four wins and one loss in the league, and a pair of cup victories.

The best club to assess City’s progress against is Burnley. A year ago, they were beginning life in the Championship following relegation and a squad overhaul, and under a manager who had learned his ways under Pep Guardiola. After five games, they had six points. So City are up six on the Clarets in their quest to succeed them as Championship champions.

The underlying numbers also showed Vincent Kompany's side did not start consistently dominating games until late January onwards. City will hope to get there before then, but as with everything under Maresca, patience is required.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

We also have played teams that from the first 5 games are currently 19th, 20th and 21st (all losing 3 out of 5)

 

 

True, but i wouldn't say there has been much difference in quality between any of the teams we've played - in fact i'd argue that rotherham were probably the toughest opponent so far.

[davieG]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

True, but i wouldn't say there has been much difference in quality between any of the teams we've played - in fact i'd argue that rotherham were probably the toughest opponent so far.

....and have just beat Norwich 2-1

[BKLFox]

& to think fans accused the players of being mentally weak last season.

[Dames]

23 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

You can't have an objective conversation on this forum anymore because any slight criticism of the club or areas for improvement are jumped on by the same old posters who deny any problems exist. Was the same under Rodgers too. Complete and utter denial of any issues. 

 

Nobody's calling for Maresca's head are they? They're simply pointing out that this kind of result was due after the nature of some/all of our wins this season. Certain players really struggle with ball retention and our creation of high end chances are slim. Choose to ignore it all you like but there's discussions to be had

Any kind of criticism isn’t allowed until after the fact. 
 

I still think we have the same weaknesses as last season and i’m disappointed that the club/Enzo haven’t recognised that. We are still too soft through the middle and extremely vulnerable to turn overs. Playing against us is simple, sit in and let us over play until the time is right to press, win the ball and counter. 
 

Its frustrating because we couldn’t break down the low block teams last season which contributed to our demise and the clubs response going into a league where every team will low block against us is ‘more of the same please’. 
 

Some posters won’t want to acknowledge this but already at this point in the season its sink or swim, we need to make improvements and fast because we can’t keep riding our luck in games. I understand the need to be patient and I am hopeful but i’m also not blind to the fact that many issue we had last season have not yet been addressed. We can’t continue to gloss over that just because some of our passing and play is a bit more hipster friendly. 

[StriderHiryu]

13 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

There's more to defending than pace.  Honestly, the 'vestergaard is shit' argument has almost no substance anymore; time to accept that, like it or not, he's doing a really good job and, if memory serves, there were no moments against hull where we were done for pace.

 

 

There was a moment in the second half where Hull played a ball straight down the middle and Vestergaard made a yellow card challenge to take the player out. He was lucky that Faes was behind him slightly, otherwise that was a red card offence. Jannick is doing a good job at controlling the pace of the game and starting moves from the back. But Maresca himself has said he will struggle with the ball in behind. If you look at that clip again, though, he is caught flat-footed and should have been closer to his man as the ball was played through.

 

I think he has been OK so far and fairly consistent, but no better than that. Doyle was great up until Hull where he had a bad time. Faes has been inconsistent, great in some games, culpable in others.

 

5 hours ago, adejo92 said:

Hallelujah!

 

Ultimately,  it's not the loss that's bothered anyone. If we get promoted, who's going to remember a 1-0 defeat to Hull 5 games in...no one.

 

The issue is that we've got a relatively inexperienced manager trying to teach a mostly average squad a very precise & ability reliant style of football.

 

Yannik Vestergaard is not Ruben Dias and Kelachi Iheanacho is not Erling Haaland.

 

We haven't looked very good at all this season and we certainly haven't been deserving of some of our victories - heavily benefiting from very poor opposition finishing.

 

Am I wanting Enzo gone, absolutely not - I like him as a manager, he's passionate & trying to implement his style of play which will take time.

 

Do I have concerns that he won't be able to implement his style of play properly with this squad? Yes.

 

I can't believe that anyone is actually surprised by the defeat to Hull.

 

A balanced take. I've started the thread, but it's to examine and analyse the new manager's tactics, not to be his fanboy. That can wait until we are lifting the Championship trophy in May . All the things you have put are true. However, I do hope fans give him time, as I find it sad that many of our fans are already sharpening their knives. I would hope we give the guy 15-20 games at least to see what he can do. Yesterday the club posted a podcast with Matt Elliott, Gerry Taggart and Martin O'Neill. MON had a torrid time to his start with us, and fans protested to get him gone. When he left, we were holding up banners with "Don't go Martin" on them.

 

 

Edited 4 September 2023 by StriderHiryu