Tactics Under Maresca

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

My concerns aren't really for this season, we've proven we can Man U our way through most games and win due our far superior quality.

 

My concern is next season, its hard not to see us experiencing a season like Burnley with how toothless we are in the final 3rd and the chances we offer up to the opposition.

 

This is why I want to see convincing performances and results, to show me that were not going to be an easy 3 points next season.

 

Still very early so im not making any judgements, but I feel comfortable being concerned at the levels were currently showing, relative to the quality of our squad.

 

Nice run of fixtures coming up so would be good to see the performance levels rise between now and Christmas.

With regards to next season, we don’t need to worry. If and it’s now an IF we do go up, we will get a nice little financial bump. Plus there’s a fair few players on loan, so we won’t really need to worry all to much about selling as we will have a near clean slate to work with. 
 

I wouldn’t be at all worried because it would be another summer of wholesale changes more than likely. I’d imagine we would end up with a whole new defence, and attack…. There’s not many players who I think will be good enough to play in the premier league so I’d expect a busy summer. 

[adejo92]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

With regards to next season, we don’t need to worry. If and it’s now an IF we do go up, we will get a nice little financial bump. Plus there’s a fair few players on loan, so we won’t really need to worry all to much about selling as we will have a near clean slate to work with. 
 

I wouldn’t be at all worried because it would be another summer of wholesale changes more than likely. I’d imagine we would end up with a whole new defence, and attack…. There’s not many players who I think will be good enough to play in the premier league so I’d expect a busy summer. 

On the flip side to that...

 

Firstly, I'm pretty certain we'll have just about enough to get promoted from this cess pit.

 

But mostly, it's not really the players that worry me, more the style of football.

 

I don't think, as a newly promoted team, there's a single player that would come to us who would have the quality needed to play this style of football in a top league like the Premier League.

 

Playing champagne football with a lemonade squad.

 

Edited 12 November 2023 by adejo92

[Oldblueyes]

I for one am slowly losing faith in his  lack of an alternative plan . He was forecasting a defeat during our good run a few weeks back but has done nothing to try and stop it. Seems he is slipping into Rodgers mode with not trying to modify our system because he knows best, even when we don't have the players good enough. 

[dmayne7]

16 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

On the flip side to that...

 

Firstly, I'm pretty certain we'll have just about enough to get promoted from this cess pit.

 

But mostly, it's not really the players that worry me, more the style of football.

 

I don't think, as a newly promoted team, there's a single player that would come to us who would have the quality needed to play this style of football in a top league like the Premier League.

 

Playing champagne football with a lemonade squad.

 

The advantage of our shock (to the rest of the footballing world at least) relegation is that if and when we do go back up, players won't necessarily look at us as a newly promoted club but see it as an opportunity to move to one of the bigger clubs outside of the top 6/7.

 

But the concern as I've said for a while and many others have said, is going to be how functional this style of football will be in the Prem. Not suggesting Maresca abandons it for a second, but he quickly needs to find more variations within the style if he wants to be successful. 

 

Let's be honest, he's done the hard bit of shifting the mentality and creating a great culture so the job is pretty easy now. Shocked by how bad the quality has been and with the players we have and the embarrassing divide in resources, failure to get promoted with the start we've had would be abysmal.

[davieG]

10 hours ago, Trev3939 said:

Today was absolutely crazy from a tactics view. At times Janick was in midfield, Ricardo was a shadow striker, Kasey as a rb. I think almost everyone played everywhere today. I’m all here for it

Plan B?

[weller54]

We've flattered to deceive all season.

I'm not convinced our Manager is as good as he thinks he is.

[Muzzy_no7]

2 minutes ago, weller54 said:

We've flattered to deceive all season.

I'm not convinced our Manager is as good as he thinks he is.

We are and have been the best side in the division so far. 
 

Just not as good as running away with it or being able to challenge the league points record. 

[Sir Shep]

So I'm guessing HMS Pisstheleague has hit an iceberg and sunk, we are now all aboard the rescue tug and hoping it reaches the shore first. 

[Claridge]

13 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

We are and have been the best side in the division so far. 
 

Just not as good as running away with it or being able to challenge the league points record. 

We could easily of drawn quite a few games but dreadful finishing and our strong benc as us through, we are no where near as good as some claimed especially playing this pass for the sake of it style at times. 

[sacreblueits442]

5 minutes ago, weller54 said:

We've flattered to deceive all season.

I'm not convinced our Manager is as good as he thinks he is.

...the wingers have flattered to deceive!!!

  They have countless chances and cannot produce.

Mavididi at 25, shows no composure in front of goal, if he is not scoring then his assists should be right up there with the best in the league.

Fatawu, looks like a potential star, but makes the same mistakes, can't keep his shots down and makes insane decisions to shoot when he runs out of ideas.

  As I  said in another thread, switch them around at the start or in games where we are struggling to make the breakthrough. If the are coming inside on their strongest foot, then it is hard to pull the ball back for the incoming midfield players, they have to go on the outside of their defenders, in order for them to supply with the "cut back."

  It is not a difficult thing to grasp, I was hoping that Maresca would have made the adjustment to his wingers by now. Leathering the ball is a sign of a lack of confidence, Maresca should have knocked that out of Mavididi's game by now and Fatawu may need to change his boots. Sometimes a new style of boot causes you to strike the ball differently. Constantly lifting the ball whilst shooting looks like he needs to go back to what he had before. 

[adejo92]

25 minutes ago, weller54 said:

We've flattered to deceive all season.

I'm not convinced our Manager is as good as he thinks he is.

Bang on.

 

The hype is as if he's taken Rotherham to the top of the league.

 

When you look at our squad, probably the best squad to ever grace the Championship,  then anything short of sitting top would be poor.

 

I am not fully sold and this isn't reactionary from the loss, I think we've looked pretty poor In most of our wins and I've said that all along.

 

I'd be shocked if there's any fans forum from the teams we have played whereby the general consensus was "wow they looked good".

[Pliskin]

Pivotal moment in the season. We will start to see what Enzo is made of…. Will we get back on the horse or will we crash and burn? It literally could go either way, I have no idea what to expect over the next few weeks.

[KIRBYFOX93]

We’ve been poor for the last 4 games, winning 2 and losing 2, which id say is a decent result. International break has come at the perfect time, with Ndidi and Yunus returning. Plus we might now see tom cannon feature after a few more weeks practice. Plenty of positives, we’re top of the league and 8 points clear of 3rd at this stage of the season. Id of snapped your hand off for this position. Keep the faith.

[moore_94]

36 minutes ago, weller54 said:

We've flattered to deceive all season.

I'm not convinced our Manager is as good as he thinks he is.

How do you know how good our manager thinks he is?

 

ffs

[lgfualol]

The slight slump was inevitable and losses feel harder to take given we’ve won so many games so far and our squad should be shitting the league. 
 

I managed to watch the last 10 minutes and do wonder why we are yet to just go direct when there’s minutes left on the clock and we need a goal. Vestergaard in the box and spamming crosses might have created more chances than trying to pass our way into the goal. It has felt like we’ve missed an Ulloa type player as a plan B for years. 

[Corky]

We've not flattered to deceive all season, the six game run in the last international window was very convincing. The last four games haven't been although Sunderland, Leeds and Middlesbrough are three of the stronger teams.

 

The set of matches up to Christmas look favourable. Time to get going with authority again.

[Pliskin]

10 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

The slight slump was inevitable and losses feel harder to take given we’ve won so many games so far and our squad should be shitting the league. 
 

I managed to watch the last 10 minutes and do wonder why we are yet to just go direct when there’s minutes left on the clock and we need a goal. Vestergaard in the box and spamming crosses might have created more chances than trying to pass our way into the goal. It has felt like we’ve missed an Ulloa type player as a plan B for years. 

Because in reality that doesn’t really work anymore…. It’s an outdated tactic that relies on you having a big physical squad, which we don’t.

 

Modern day football is plan A to Z…. The only gripe I’ve got with Enzo in this system is we aren’t utilising our key players properly, they’re being sacrificed for the system. 
 

We have the two best full backs in the league and they’re out of position. KDH isn’t a high 8, he’s been struggling no end recently, we don’t have another proper 8, although N’didi is doing fairly well in that role. 
 

The system would work better if the right players played in those positions, and we just haven’t been clinical enough recently.

 

Were just generally soft, it’s a theme that I think has been present for most of the season so far, but we’ve got away with it through the quality we have, but we still have a soft underbelly and when the going gets tough we need to be able to show resilience.

 

Lets hope Enzo can get stuck into them again and hopefully we will have a few players back after the break that can really help us. 

[Tommy Fresh]

Assuming anyone moaning about us being less than convincing whilst panicking and blowing smoke up the arses of Leeds and Ipswich has watched them every week?

[westernpark]

I really like his personality and the way he has managed the club so far but when we don’t win there will always be criticism with our style of play under him. 

[UniFox21]

Missing that focal point. 

All good making all these opportunities and chances, but we don't have a serial goal scorer.

[cityfanlee23]

13 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Not going to worry about how we are potentially going to play in the Prem until we are actually promoted

 

Just because we play like this in the Championship at the moment does not mean we will play like it in the Prem, or even by the end of the season, or even by the end of the year

 

Find it a bit weird to try and use it as a negative against him when we are still only 16 games into the season

 

There is A LOT of games left, and he is very much still learning and developing

 

This is his first bit of a wobble whilst our manager, not going to shit the bed yet

I think a big concern for some (inlcuding me) is that most fans are talking about “when it clicks” and so far it really hasn’t, but the issue is we simply won’t be allowed to play with such high possession in the premier league, and we struggle to create chances with 70%+ so how will we create chances against better defenders in the premier league with 40-50%? 
 

I know championship teams park the bus and premier league teams don’t, but it’s far harder to score against premier league teams that don’t park the bus than championship teams that do imo. 
 

The issue then becomes what are we actually building towards? If it clicks in the championship that’s great, but if we get promoted and suddenly can’t play the way we’ve been building towards then not only do we need a rebuild in just 6 months time, but we also need to likely completely change our approach tactically. 
 

Some elements of our play will obviously remain, but it seems to me like we are building a tactical approach that we won’t be using next season if we go up, seems like extra unnecessary work. 

[MrsJohnMurphy]

3 hours ago, weller54 said:

We've flattered to deceive all season.

I'm not convinced our Manager is as good as he thinks he is.

Mr Flip Flap strikes again 

[Steve Earle]

14 hours ago, Pliskin said:

With regards to next season, we don’t need to worry. If and it’s now an IF we do go up, we will get a nice little financial bump. Plus there’s a fair few players on loan, so we won’t really need to worry all to much about selling as we will have a near clean slate to work with. 
 

I wouldn’t be at all worried because it would be another summer of wholesale changes more than likely. I’d imagine we would end up with a whole new defence, and attack…. There’s not many players who I think will be good enough to play in the premier league so I’d expect a busy summer. 

Hermansen

Ricardo

Faes

JJ

Winks

KDH

Fatawu

 

Seven - at least - ain’t a bad start. McAteer, Coady, Yunus, Mavididi, Ndidi, Cannon, Stolarczyk all might be good enough. 
 

But absolutely, it’ll be a big summer, whichever league we’re in.

[Chelmofox]

I watched the game via a stream, and just seen the extended highlights. I still can't believe we didn't win that game. Nacho's left foot shot that Dieng saved was tepid, and he should have done better with the one that hit woodwork. Fatawu should have done better from Mavidid's cross and KDH spraying a few chances over the bar rather than playing better passes just summed the day up. Even Vesty could have taken the lead in the first half.  We have stopped being clinical, and 1 goal in 3 games with our squad is a poor return.  I cannot believe we will continue like this. 

 

But back to the tactics and the system.

 

Firstly, i think there have been tweaks to players games that have in the short term probably had a negative effect. Earlier in the season KDH was trying to do everything, and pretty much all of us commented on this. I think he's definitely had this coached out of him and he is definitely doing less. This issue now is that KDH's output is very much a percentages game - 1 in x attempts actually comes to anything. With him doing less, the % of anything quality has dropped off a cliff and with it the goal contributions.  He is now snatching at chances and has lost his rhythm. Whether or not he can improve his game from hereon, or has to go back to his trying to do everything mode, remains to be seen. 

 

Seems to me that the best chance the opposition have against us is to nullify the wingers, and this definitely what Leeds and Borough did. With a back 5 and Winks,  we have 4 offensive players 2 of which are wingers. The problem is our wingers aren't elite level. Fatawu is a beast but the goal contributions aren't there yet (we need to remember he's still a kid), and Kasey is still migrating from youth level and coming back from an injury. I have a lot of time for him, but Mavididi noticeably drops his head when its not working and Yunus is injured (and Yunus' issue is people want him to play in every position on the pitch now!). 

 

So, if you nullify our wingers, then in games like Borough, we can only rely on Nacho and KDH for the quality through the middle. And therein lies our problem. I've already explained about KDH who when has lost his rhythm snatches at the ball and struggles, and Nacho wanders aimlessly offering no intensity or intent through the middle.  I don't think we need KDH in this team, his plus point is his energy but we have youth in Fatawu / Mavidi / Kasey that provides that energy now. KDH and Nacho need to be replaced with quality. Without quality in the middle, the system offers no alternative to the wing threat.  With Vardy offering little alternative to Nacho right now, i don't see any subs that would have changed it through the middle yesterday.

 

We need a playmaker through the middle to replace KDH. Maddison's don't grow on trees but we need someone of that ilk to be able to cut through the middle of the pitch. KDH doesn't have the quality, and the 2 strikers we use at the moment don't help this system. Maybe Canon is the answer to the striker issue, but we are a way off knowing that and can't expect him to just smash this on his return from injury, but we have 3 strikers (incl Daka) who aren't cut out for this. We need to get rid of Daka and Nacho in January, and prepare for Vardy's retirement by recruiting another. Maybe Alves is the answer to the playmaker issue, but again there is injury and youth in the mix. I think this is a key signing we need to make in January, and we probably need to make it with a view that the player is already ready for the Prem. 

 

So short answer, KDH isn't needed in this system and should be replaced with a more quality orientated playmaker, and we need to sort the striker issue out in January. 

Edited 12 November 2023 by Chelmofox

[Beachyboy]

4 hours ago, lgfualol said:

The slight slump was inevitable and losses feel harder to take given we’ve won so many games so far and our squad should be shitting the league. 
 

I managed to watch the last 10 minutes and do wonder why we are yet to just go direct when there’s minutes left on the clock and we need a goal. Vestergaard in the box and spamming crosses might have created more chances than trying to pass our way into the goal. It has felt like we’ve missed an Ulloa type player as a plan B for years. 

Call me crazy but I look at Chris Wood sat on Forest's bench today and think hmmm, I know he was ropey for us before but he's improved since then.