Tactics Under Maresca

[sacreblueits442]

26 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

i think a lot of people are comfortable remembering the good parts of his game, whilst completely forgetting the bad parts of his game, before us he was a 3rd tier player, he came in and played well in a team that was generally playing well, but still needed a lot of work.  And even at his best, he really had no end product as an attacker (even in his best season when he played 2000+ minutes, he managed 2 goals and 1 assist).

 

...Justin received his first International cap in June 2022!!!

He was perceived as good enough to be called up, in his position 2 goals and 1 assist having moved up from League 1 and breaking into the first team, seems good to me. His subsequent injury may have scuppered him reaching the heights or potential heights that many envisaged for him. He lost a good season for the 22/23 season, not sure if you are choosing to remember selectively, but he was flying with his performances for us before his injury.

[HarryDee8]

Possession doesn't win games, we don't have the finishers currently.

 

I liked the earlier season of fast direct football. Which we seem to have stopped doing in the last few games

[lcfcsnow]

11 hours ago, Ashley said:

Nothing wrong with that what so ever. 

 

Thing is. We're witnessing a new style this Season. 

 

Completely different from Puel, then into Rodgers. 

 

Through my life time of a Leicester fan, we've played effective football but necessarily the best football. 

 

As fans and our players were learning how Enzo wants to play. We still have some if not alot fans shouting 'get it forward' at every opportunity. Be patient, that style of football works. Trust the process. 

He's not coming across well lately. Even during the winning run he was saying strange things like we'll probably lose against Sunderland. Or we'll lose more than we win. Well that's what's happened since, and if you lose more than you win then you're not going to last long as a manager.

 

Obviously he's started great but it seems to me the more coached we are into this routine, the less effective we are. No one's doing or trying anything different lately to make a difference, it's predictable to watch so it must be predictable to play against.

 

The Liverpool comparison to fans wanting to see more transitional play is also silly. If I want to watch a team good at his style of play I'd watch Man City. But I don't because even that bores me even though they're the masters at it.

[Guppys Love Child]

36 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

He's not coming across well lately. Even during the winning run he was saying strange things like we'll probably lose against Sunderland. Or we'll lose more than we win. Well that's what's happened since, and if you lose more than you win then you're not going to last long as a manager.

 

Obviously he's started great but it seems to me the more coached we are into this routine, the less effective we are. No one's doing or trying anything different lately to make a difference, it's predictable to watch so it must be predictable to play against.

 

The Liverpool comparison to fans wanting to see more transitional play is also silly. If I want to watch a team good at his style of play I'd watch Man City. But I don't because even that bores me even though they're the masters at it.

100% agree... For high percentages of each of our games so far we have been  boring to watch. 

 

Yes we get patches of play where we are  more cutting and the excitement level moves up a notch or three then we go back into "control mode" and teeth pulling starts again.  I've also had a few in the family stand get a bit heated if I mention the words" pass forward" or "come on the goals then other way"  even if the latter is said in jest. I have a feeling that Enzo is stubborn and hell bent on the style play and it's this way only, and this does concern me a bit.

 

Our current league position indicates he's not stupid but IMO he needs to find a way to mix it up and try another tactic then its obviously not working on the pitch. I'm just not convinced he's willing to do that 

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...Justin received his first International cap in June 2022!!!

He was perceived as good enough to be called up, in his position 2 goals and 1 assist having moved up from League 1 and breaking into the first team, seems good to me. His subsequent injury may have scuppered him reaching the heights or potential heights that many envisaged for him. He lost a good season for the 22/23 season, not sure if you are choosing to remember selectively, but he was flying with his performances for us before his injury.

I've explained many times on here why i don't rate him as highly as others do - my memory is not selective: he was decent but had some areas where he had a lot of work to do - i think that's a balanced view?  2 goals and 1 assist in 6000 minutes of football (in the PL) is less than what Luke Thomas managed in the same spell despite being 3 years younger - it's not great.  For a player supposedly with attacking ability, i'd personally expect a better return, especially given the fact that his best season was when, as a team, we were playing our best football.

 

What i will add is that his england call up isn't perhaps the achievement people try to make out.  generally speaking,  southgate's selections were very, ahem, selective - that he'd call up justin out of all the quality english players leicester had at that time was bewildering, but what is most significant about his selection is that at the time there was probably no other player in the prem that could play left back in an england shirt - essentially, he was playing well enough to get noticed but had no competition in his position - it's a good achievement but doesn't reflect the full story of his abilities at the time.  Besides, getting an england cap is no guarantee of quality, there are some awful players who have got one.

 

Regardless, the way he plays now is decidedly cautious and doesn't seem anywhere close to the level it should be at at his age.

[fuchsntf]

13 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

I've explained many times on here why i don't rate him as highly as others do - my memory is not selective: he was decent but had some areas where he had a lot of work to do - i think that's a balanced view?  2 goals and 1 assist in 6000 minutes of football (in the PL) is less than what Luke Thomas managed in the same spell despite being 3 years younger - it's not great.  For a player supposedly with attacking ability, i'd personally expect a better return, especially given the fact that his best season was when, as a team, we were playing our best football.

 

What i will add is that his england call up isn't perhaps the achievement people try to make out.  generally speaking,  southgate's selections were very, ahem, selective - that he'd call up justin out of all the quality english players leicester had at that time was bewildering, but what is most significant about his selection is that at the time there was probably no other player in the prem that could play left back in an england shirt - essentially, he was playing well enough to get noticed but had no competition in his position - it's a good achievement but doesn't reflect the full story of his abilities at the time.  Besides, getting an england cap is no guarantee of quality, there are some awful players who have got one.

 

Regardless, the way he plays now is decidedly cautious and doesn't seem anywhere close to the level it should be at at his age.

I reckon ,your a prime example,of proving how to use the negative towards a player,and then keep gnawing the same bone.

 

ffs all players go up & down since they put pigs bladder,in a leather  pocket..

I suggest many on here,should relax more & enjoy the game and not over analyse,ever damn error & mistake a player makes…

Justin’s alround play is one thing I don’t worry about & yes IMO all players

deserve the right to be seen doing the right things,

So far he has had like all players some bad moments..So fking what…

I noticed/observed over 20yrs real poor moments ,humdingers of mistakes from Messi ,Ronaldo and other greats,it’s not these moment that make the player..

Justin been part of the assist chain,where at the end we scored…Being a FB,he will often also be involved in “daring to allow” the opposition to score…

so fking what..        Shit happens.

 

Creating a case that doesn’t exsist,is a too weird a past time IMO,

This forum,( maybe other forums), it’s todays genre,to follow and see more

the negative than the positive…

We have all become like the diva Theater critics,and want a piece of that pie..S.media platforms have let loose a ratty group of know alls,who love nothing more than pull everybody down,and all participants /players are easy targets for the same topic of repetative negative weekly vibes…And will never be good enough to present their various level of skills or the whole package of what they are…

Edited 19 November 2023 by fuchsntf

[Foxaholic ME]

On 18/11/2023 at 14:00, lcfcsnow said:

He's not coming across well lately. Even during the winning run he was saying strange things like we'll probably lose against Sunderland. Or we'll lose more than we win. Well that's what's happened since, and if you lose more than you win then you're not going to last long as a manager.

 

Obviously he's started great but it seems to me the more coached we are into this routine, the less effective we are. No one's doing or trying anything different lately to make a difference, it's predictable to watch so it must be predictable to play against.

 

The Liverpool comparison to fans wanting to see more transitional play is also silly. If I want to watch a team good at his style of play I'd watch Man City. But I don't because even that bores me even though they're the masters at it.

Like most old timers I  find it slightly boring but  nowadays  

[Foxaholic ME]

Just now, Foxaholic ME said:

Like most old  timers I find it slightly   boring  but the Leicester crowd  nowadays   prefer results to entertainment    and  managers respond accordingly   so the days   of Frank Worthington Keith Weller Derek Dougan    etc  can be forgotten

 

[Claridge]

30 minutes ago, Foxaholic ME said:

 

I agree, this style of football is boring to watch for 90% of the game.

Too see Vardy or Nacho charging back 40 yds like madmen to do a 3 foot one two with a central defender is totally depressing. 

Im far from convinced by Enzo ball and think we have been slightly lucky this season with some results. With the squad we have and the luck ,most half-decent managers would have us doing well in this league.

I still think we will get promotion, but we are no where near as good as some people claimed a few weeks ago

[Guppys Love Child]

19 minutes ago, Claridge said:

I agree, this style of football is boring to watch for 90% of the game.

Too see Vardy or Nacho charging back 40 yds like madmen to do a 3 foot one two with a central defender is totally depressing. 

Im far from convinced by Enzo ball and think we have been slightly lucky this season with some results. With the squad we have and the luck ,most half-decent managers would have us doing well in this league.

I still think we will get promotion, but we are no where near as good as some people claimed a few weeks ago

Thank God I'm not the only one who thinks the same...

 

I agree with every point 

Edited 19 November 2023 by Guppys Love Child

[Chelmofox]

32 minutes ago, Claridge said:

I agree, this style of football is boring to watch for 90% of the game.

Too see Vardy or Nacho charging back 40 yds like madmen to do a 3 foot one two with a central defender is totally depressing. 

Im far from convinced by Enzo ball and think we have been slightly lucky this season with some results. With the squad we have and the luck ,most half-decent managers would have us doing well in this league.

I still think we will get promotion, but we are no where near as good as some people claimed a few weeks ago

I mean, really? I've certainly not been bored when we've been controlling games, but for sure its not exhilarating counter attacking football, but it can't be if a team will largely sit back. I would say we haven't controlled the last 3 games in the same way and these are teams who have come and had a go (apart from Middlesbroughs' smash and grab in the 2nd half).  I strongly disagree we've been lucky.

[moore_94]

1 hour ago, Claridge said:

I agree, this style of football is boring to watch for 90% of the game.

Too see Vardy or Nacho charging back 40 yds like madmen to do a 3 foot one two with a central defender is totally depressing. 

Im far from convinced by Enzo ball and think we have been slightly lucky this season with some results. With the squad we have and the luck ,most half-decent managers would have us doing well in this league.

I still think we will get promotion, but we are no where near as good as some people claimed a few weeks ago

You will find all teams will have been lucky with some results so far this season.

 

Personally other than Cov I think we have deserved every other result so far

Edited 19 November 2023 by moore_94

[cropstonfox]

Let's face it after last season play offs would be a good season.

Enzo ball should guarantee that!

[davieG]

I doubt Enzo thought we'd be anywhere near 8 points ahead of 3rd place.

 

As for the matches his system is still very much in it's infancy mainly because the team is still learning how to make it work better and because he's playing it with a number of players not suited to the system. However this system is his long term aim.

 

I'm also sure although he'll be happy with what we've achieved he's obviously not going to be happy where we're under achieving with our movement, passing and finishing. I'd also reckon that with the more suitable and better players we'll be moving the ball forward quicker though the lines and that will give us better and more opportunities to score. That I believe and hope is when not only will we dominate games but also entertain us more.

 

Of course that is, assuming we get promoted we'll be competing against better teams. They'll be those 6 or 7 teams that will be and always will have better players than us, it's the other 17/18 we need to be better than and this system with the better and more suitable players could give us the edge in doing that.

[Ric Flair]

I'm not sure if it's the players or Enzo's system, but essentially our full backs attacking attributes are now rendered obsolete as they aren't allowed to support the winger, our wingers are expected to be exceptional in 1 v 1 / 1 v 2 situations and its no wonder the goals and assists for Mavididi and Fatawu are mediocre at best. Then you look at our strikers and they're mere fluffers for the advancing 8's, barely getting many chances in a game (Middlesborough / Iheanacho aside).

 

As I've recently said, there's enough warning signs in recent weeks, Maresca would be naive and ignorant not to be aware of that. 

 

Needs a bit of fine tuning to get more players in the box, more support for our wingers and strikers. 

 

That said, our ability to defend attacks is very impressive. A benefit of not committing players forward.

[Ely fox]

Stop moaning we are still top of the league. 

[Wymsey]

Win next Saturday and all will be forgotten etc..

[urban fox]

Never been an advocate of the “plan B” , which for most people seems to be to simply lump it forward. However, Matt Piper made a good point on RL, in that at certain points in games, we should look to utilise Vardy in a more direct way, playing to his strengths. We have Vestergaard and Winks, who can both play a good accurate pass through the lines, which Vardy thrives on. Obviously this will not work against teams that come to park the bus from minute one, but where teams try to press us, or double up on our wingers, then a ten minute spell trying to release Vardy in this way will mix it up a bit and teams will not know whether to sit or try and press us. If they realise that trying to press us high up the pitch leaves them vulnerable to our striker getting in behind, then they might be more reluctant and we revert to our patient possession style.

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, urban fox said:

Never been an advocate of the “plan B” , which for most people seems to be to simply lump it forward. However, Matt Piper made a good point on RL, in that at certain points in games, we should look to utilise Vardy in a more direct way, playing to his strengths. We have Vestergaard and Winks, who can both play a good accurate pass through the lines, which Vardy thrives on. Obviously this will not work against teams that come to park the bus from minute one, but where teams try to press us, or double up on our wingers, then a ten minute spell trying to release Vardy in this way will mix it up a bit and teams will not know whether to sit or try and press us. If they realise that trying to press us high up the pitch leaves them vulnerable to our striker getting in behind, then they might be more reluctant and we revert to our patient possession style.

I feel like we did this well earlier in the season, we clearly wanted to knock it about but the players seemed more keen to take advantage of a high press and release one of the 3 forwards. 

 

It must be comforting to the opposition when you're allowed to press without fear of the other team knocking it over you

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

I feel like we did this well earlier in the season, we clearly wanted to knock it about but the players seemed more keen to take advantage of a high press and release one of the 3 forwards. 

 

It must be comforting to the opposition when you're allowed to press without fear of the other team knocking it over you

At our best this season we’d miss Winks and Ricardo out at times, go straight into the winger or strikers and then have third man runner from KDH or N’Didi. 

[Ric Flair]

8 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

At our best this season we’d miss Winks and Ricardo out at times, go straight into the winger or strikers and then have third man runner from KDH or N’Didi. 

Not been seen since the Sunderland game when Maresca got spooked at how much control we conceded in doing so. 

[Lillehamring]

On 19/11/2023 at 07:12, fuchsntf said:

I reckon ,your a prime example,of proving how to use the negative towards a player,and then keep gnawing the same bone.

 

ffs all players go up & down since they put pigs bladder,in a leather  pocket..

I suggest many on here,should relax more & enjoy the game and not over analyse,ever damn error & mistake a player makes…

Justin’s alround play is one thing I don’t worry about & yes IMO all players

deserve the right to be seen doing the right things,

So far he has had like all players some bad moments..So fking what…

I noticed/observed over 20yrs real poor moments ,humdingers of mistakes from Messi ,Ronaldo and other greats,it’s not these moment that make the player..

Justin been part of the assist chain,where at the end we scored…Being a FB,he will often also be involved in “daring to allow” the opposition to score…

so fking what..        Shit happens.

 

Creating a case that doesn’t exsist,is a too weird a past time IMO,

This forum,( maybe other forums), it’s todays genre,to follow and see more

the negative than the positive…

We have all become like the diva Theater critics,and want a piece of that pie..S.media platforms have let loose a ratty group of know alls,who love nothing more than pull everybody down,and all participants /players are easy targets for the same topic of repetative negative weekly vibes…And will never be good enough to present their various level of skills or the whole package of what they are…

Wow, what a bewildering rambling mess of a post!

Why must you always explode when you don't agree with something? - someone raised the question of JJ playing #8, i debated that and (as usual) got called out for being critical of a player and attempted to explain (rationally and clearly) why i believe what i do.

 

We all have players we rate and don't rate, and we all discuss the merits of said players.  If you don't agree with me, you don't need to go on some lunatic rant in attempt to prove me wrong,  because it's so incoherent i can't even work out if you actually make a point worth considering.

[Lillehamring]

On 19/11/2023 at 22:34, Ric Flair said:

I'm not sure if it's the players or Enzo's system, but essentially our full backs attacking attributes are now rendered obsolete as they aren't allowed to support the winger, our wingers are expected to be exceptional in 1 v 1 / 1 v 2 situations and its no wonder the goals and assists for Mavididi and Fatawu are mediocre at best. Then you look at our strikers and they're mere fluffers for the advancing 8's, barely getting many chances in a game (Middlesborough / Iheanacho aside).

 

As I've recently said, there's enough warning signs in recent weeks, Maresca would be naive and ignorant not to be aware of that. 

 

Needs a bit of fine tuning to get more players in the box, more support for our wingers and strikers. 

 

That said, our ability to defend attacks is very impressive. A benefit of not committing players forward.

Which is why it keeps coming back to the reality that we don't have the right players for the system.

It's not that our FBs attacking attributes have become obsolete - it's that the position of FB in this system has become obsolete - we no longer operate with FBs (though it's worth noting that doyle and faes are probably far more attacking that any other CB in the league).

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

Which is why it keeps coming back to the reality that we don't have the right players for the system.

It's not that our FBs attacking attributes have become obsolete - it's that the position of FB in this system has become obsolete - we no longer operate with FBs (though it's worth noting that doyle and faes are probably far more attacking that any other CB in the league).

I'd be amazed if we had the right players for the system given the short amount of time Enzo has had, and given the injuries to Doyle and Ndidi. I think the system is the way to go. People compare us to Man City but in my opinion, we are more like Brighton.

I also think this is a good thing as with a system, it's easier to replace players who move on.

We used to rely on players' brilliance before and they are not so easy to replace.

[messerschmitt]

On 19/11/2023 at 21:34, Ric Flair said:

I'm not sure if it's the players or Enzo's system, but essentially our full backs attacking attributes are now rendered obsolete as they aren't allowed to support the winger, our wingers are expected to be exceptional in 1 v 1 / 1 v 2 situations and its no wonder the goals and assists for Mavididi and Fatawu are mediocre at best. Then you look at our strikers and they're mere fluffers for the advancing 8's, barely getting many chances in a game (Middlesborough / Iheanacho aside).

 

As I've recently said, there's enough warning signs in recent weeks, Maresca would be naive and ignorant not to be aware of that. 

 

Needs a bit of fine tuning to get more players in the box, more support for our wingers and strikers. 

 

That said, our ability to defend attacks is very impressive. A benefit of not committing players forward.

Enzo said at the beginning of the season, the need to get more players in the box so I'm wondering why this seems to have stopped recently.

Ndidi and Mcateer were both good at getting in the box so that could be part of the reason.