Tactics Under Maresca

[CosbehFox]

9 hours ago, davieG said:

As much as I’m ok with this approach the first half had nothing enjoyable about it we were awful, lacking any sort of coordinated play, intensity and very little to bring a smile to your face or get you out of your seat. An absolute yawn fest.

 

No off the cuff enjoyment. Both teams played to a rigid system and dint move away with even individual qualify 

[ChrisFilter]

All this grumbling!

 

I do get it, to an extent. But I wonder to what extent this is simply Maresca meeting the brief. We have to get promoted. It would be disastrous not to. And so he’s playing the percentages with a superior squad. 
 

Ultimately, playing this way should win us enough games to get automatic promotion. A possession-based style that takes advantage of better players and doesn’t over-exert them. It’s a bit like Team Sky in the cycling. Get the most from a superior squad and just break the opposition. A fairly boring watch, but it works. 
 

You can see that with some better players it could be an exciting watch though. There are times this season where I’ve found it fascinating. Thought the first 15 was really interesting yesterday before it got all sloppy. 

[FLAN]

I don’t see how we transition this squad and style to the premier league. I think we could be in for a rude awakening if promoted

Edited 26 November 2023 by FLAN
Typo

[Stevosevic]

14 minutes ago, FLAN said:

I don’t see how we transition this squad and style to the premier league. I think we could be in for a rude awakening if promoted

We’ll get some better players in. Clear we will have a high turnover. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

9 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

But you have to remember what we're up against - like most teams we've played (especially at home), these teams are simply standing off us - they're not trying to get the ball of us, so we're left in a situation where we're trying to draw them out, but they're not budging, as such it inevitably means that we have to try to find a way through and the only way to do that is to be patient and keep moving around until we get that chance.

 

It's like a boxer - he'll prod and jab, he'll move around the ring, looking for the moment his opponent lets his guard down.

 

Today, like a lot of these games, that's how we approached the first half - and i get that it's slow, that it seems like we're not doing anything, but we had 11 shots in the first half - so it does work, tactically speaking - so i disagree that we were awful, at least in our approach play - the problem was that due to poor finishing there was never any end product - no KO - and so it leaves the impression that we didn't do anything.

 

At the end of the day, we can only play in a way that gets results against the tactics of our opponents.

I think this is the crux of why we play as we do. In sure Enzo would love it if we had teams coming to attack us week in week out and commit men forward and to play a fast paced counter attacking style but you just can't play that way against teams coming to defend en masse. In some ways our title winning team when we were underdogs and could play on the break has had a twofold effect, firstly it has ruined our patience for this style of play and secondly it has made us a big dog where teams will now come to Leicester to try and pick up a point so we have to play this way.

[davieG]

9 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

But you have to remember what we're up against - like most teams we've played (especially at home), these teams are simply standing off us - they're not trying to get the ball of us, so we're left in a situation where we're trying to draw them out, but they're not budging, as such it inevitably means that we have to try to find a way through and the only way to do that is to be patient and keep moving around until we get that chance.

 

It's like a boxer - he'll prod and jab, he'll move around the ring, looking for the moment his opponent lets his guard down.

 

Today, like a lot of these games, that's how we approached the first half - and i get that it's slow, that it seems like we're not doing anything, but we had 11 shots in the first half - so it does work, tactically speaking - so i disagree that we were awful, at least in our approach play - the problem was that due to poor finishing there was never any end product - no KO - and so it leaves the impression that we didn't do anything.

 

At the end of the day, we can only play in a way that gets results against the tactics of our opponents.

I understand all that but the quality, commitment and intent were just not there. It seems like, in the first half we're happy to just keep the ball and stop them scoring. Most of those shots came in the last 10 mins.

I'm interested in the tactical/technical approach to the game but I pay my money to be entertained and that doesn't just mean scoring goals. I want to see actions and events that get me out of my seat. When you find yourself looking at the the crowd, how the stadium looks, chatting with your neighbour because there's nothing entertaining on  the pitch then somethings not right. 

The last ten mins and the second half were much more acceptable, weren't the tactical set ups alike, if so what was the difference?  Wee upped our intent, woke up from our stupor on the pitch which then woke the  crowd up.

Why can't we do this for 90mins, other teams seem to manage it?

 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Iwebema said:

Good analysis as always 👍 

 

I think one thing to consider on the first half performance is we were coming off the back of 2 losses and an international break, a slow start felt almost inevitable as we tried to find some confidence. The quick subs by Enzo probably suggest he was also unhappy with the tempo though.

 

For what it's worth, I think we are a proper striker away from things really going up another level, iheanacho, for whatever reason, has been a disappointment and Vardy obviously isnt the player he was, its similar as you point out to man city pre and post Haaland. I think not having a proper striker who just leads the line instead of dropping in like an 8 is causing the lack of aggression that I think some want to see. 

 

Still I'm personally enjoying this season, it's not without its frustrations, but it feels like the building blocks of something good that needs a few transfer windows to absolutely nail. 

International break is well worth pointing out. Look how many teams dropped points this weekend, it definitely disrupted the flow for many.  
 

The striker thing I also agree with. We brought Cannon but I think if we go up we’ll buy another one. 

[Oldblueyes]

If we bought not one but two further Cannons, then we could give other teams a right broadside at times. 😉

[davieG]

Cannons are fine but are no good without the balls.

[Matt]

59 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

I think this is the crux of why we play as we do. In sure Enzo would love it if we had teams coming to attack us week in week out and commit men forward and to play a fast paced counter attacking style but you just can't play that way against teams coming to defend en masse. In some ways our title winning team when we were underdogs and could play on the break has had a twofold effect, firstly it has ruined our patience for this style of play and secondly it has made us a big dog where teams will now come to Leicester to try and pick up a point so we have to play this way.

But this is the crux of my point, based of our previous two seasons in the Premier League and a glimpse of what we've seen in a cup game against Premier League opposition this season, that style doesn't work for a team like us in that league.

 

Generally, teams in the Premier League aren't going to be scared coming to Leicester, teams aren't going to to defend en masse but they are happy for us to have the ball, not let us get out our own half with it, they can almost push us back, attack us without the ball, force us into mistake, leads to them scoring, we saw it time and time again over 2 seasons are arguably against Liverpool in the cup.

 

As i've said numerous times, I get it this season, against this opposition, but it generally only works for the 'top' teams, of which in this division we are.

 

Even when teams did come and attack us previously, we didn't change, it just made us panic leading to even more errors playing in that way - I appreciate that's potentially been and gone under a different manager.

 

Now, i'm sure what the alternative is, mix it up perhaps, not be so rigid, simplistic and easier said than done i'm sure.

 

I mentioned last week for my sins i'll listen to TalkSport/606 phone ins (Mainly for entertainment and people being wound up), also speaking to match going fans of other teams and i'd say a massively high percentage of fans of most clubs complain of the same thing - they're bored. It's not/wasn't exclusive to us, that's a sad indictment of the modern game, aren't things supposed to improve, move forward, be exciting and entertaining? People want Football to get them on the edge of their seat.

 

Anyway, like I said last night, i'm enjoying this season for what it is and not looking too far ahead to next season.

 

FWIW I don't see Enzo exclusively playing possession based, largely and heavily, yes, it does worry it's his go to, and like most modern managers it's a case of "Do plan A better" rarely deviating for it but he has changed things up when needed on occasions and credit to that and it is working, whilst it's working he can afford to have that philosophy and mindset.

 

Edited 26 November 2023 by Matt

[Paninistickers]

I saw signs yesterday in those last 25 mins that we can let ourselves off the leash. And we were much better for it. running at them from deep and breaking their lines. JJ overlapping. (On the overlapping thing, my preference is still for modern full backs who overlap and create overloads. This system, JJ apart in those last 20, just doesn't allow for that) 

 

Ironically, the time I wanted us to have slow boring possession was from about 80 mins and we couldn't then do it. 

 

Poor Casadei looked a bit lost again. Did one of two nice things but he looks a poor fit. Praet should've come on. 

[Blanchflower78]

44 minutes ago, davieG said:

I understand all that but the quality, commitment and intent were just not there. It seems like, in the first half we're happy to just keep the ball and stop them scoring. Most of those shots came in the last 10 mins.

I'm interested in the tactical/technical approach to the game but I pay my money to be entertained and that doesn't just mean scoring goals. I want to see actions and events that get me out of my seat. When you find yourself looking at the the crowd, how the stadium looks, chatting with your neighbour because there's nothing entertaining on  the pitch then somethings not right. 

The last ten mins and the second half were much more acceptable, weren't the tactical set ups alike, if so what was the difference?  Wee upped our intent, woke up from our stupor on the pitch which then woke the  crowd up.

Why can't we do this for 90mins, other teams seem to manage it?

 

Absolutely this 👆

[ARTY_FOX]

We've leaned too hard into the 'move the ball and tire them out' approach for the last few games. It probably will work in a Christmas congestion to be fair but I'm hoping it's just been transitioning for that rather than what becomes the norm. We're capable of winning games early and playing that way for the rest of the game. 

Edited 26 November 2023 by ARTY_FOX

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Him having to come out and defend the style is absolutely disgraceful.

 

If you don't like it don't come 👍

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Him having to come out and defend the style is absolutely disgraceful.

 

If you don't like it don't come 👍

I'm ok with the tactics when they're being carried out properly and with players that look like they're up for it and want to put the effort In. Seemingly they didn't for the first 35 or so mins yesterday. Unless they were under orders not to then I'm not entertained by the tactics. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

Poor Casadei looked a bit lost again. Did one of two nice things but he looks a poor fit. Praet should've come on. 

I’m starting to think he might be a bit doggo. Unless he’s still not fit and up to the pace of the game?

[FoxesFourLife]

I think the tactics Enzo uses is perfect for the squad, we have struggled when the tempo of passing is slow but that's the same for any team playing possession based football, moving the ball with a higher tempo pulls the opposition out of shape and creates more spaces for your players to move into or pass through as was yesterday in the second half.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

International break is well worth pointing out. Look how many teams dropped points this weekend, it definitely disrupted the flow for many.  
 

The striker thing I also agree with. We brought Cannon but I think if we go up we’ll buy another one. 

Maybe over the winter window if Kelechi goes?

[BKLFox]

Go and support Leeds if you don’t like it  

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, BKLFox said:

Go and support Leeds if you don’t like it  

Some people would much rather see constant running with blood and thunder than points and promotion.

Maybe rugby is more their thing…. 

[sacreblueits442]

16 hours ago, Matt said:

"We're born in this style, we'll die in this style" were along the lines of Enzo's comments after todays game.

 

I didn't see where a winner was coming from today, duly, we got one, two, fair play, whilst we are doing that he can afford the attitude of his comment.

 

Our losses have shown shortcomings, concerns and ask a few questions. He has a philosophy, which is fair enough, but what's wrong with throwing the kitchen sink at Leeds and Middlesbrough towards the latter stages - certainly the Middlesbrough game.

 

Listen, I'm enjoying the season and i'm not going to use that a stick to batter him with - I was actually trying to spin those losses into positives, hoping those games would be used to highlight what we could and need to do better.

 

Likewise i'm enjoying this season and not looking too far ahead to next season, because I "get it" in this league, against this opposition. 

 

I just feel playing this way next season we'll be a world of pain, certainly with the "We're born in this style, we'll die in this style" attitude, you only have to look at Burnley and listen to their fans, lauding their cultured change in style, being so successful last season, now the concerns and complaints of "tippy tappy" football are raising their head and being chucked at Burnley/Kompany.

 

...I wouldn't say the style is the problem, it is the execution of the style that is where we fall short!!!

Burnley went into this new season without the loanees that had got them up and has not been able to remake the team. The problem with loans is you end up having to rebuild the core as much as anything else.

[sphericalfox]

Pep has method of play and training that utilises the depth of his squad, and managing exertion over the entire team across the first two thirds of the season. City generally step into another gear in the final third of their season. Hopefully the majority of the squad is match fit and with a little bit of rotation you can put out a strong team with fit quality players coming off the bench.

 

I can see the same being applied by Maresca. If we can avoid unnecessary injuries actually we'll actually step up a gear in the last part of the season. Progress over the last 5 months has been steady (there's still room for improvement). Judging what is happening now against what the squad might be or how we might play hypothetically in the Prem is daft. We're doing a job, managing games, and when necessary turning up the gas in the last 20mins. At the minute we are trying to rack up points in a safe and practical way. We can be let off the leash when the time is right.

[StriderHiryu]

41 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe over the winter window if Kelechi goes?

I think we’ll wait till we are in the Premier League because I think we’ll spend 25-30M on one. It will be someone who is really technical and good at dropping deep. 

[The_77]

What kind of breakneck style can any side in the world play when the opposition sits off like Watford were?
 

I think some folks are also confusing poor composure in the box with bad tactics— that was a dominant performance yesterday, viva il Enzoball.

Edited 26 November 2023 by The_77
Grammar

[Nod.E]

Have people that say Maresca doesn't have a Plan B stopped to consider we might not even have seen Plan A yet?

 

I doubt his philosophy at its core involves deploying a stopper in the 8 and playing a right back as a left sided centre back.

 

He has shown remarkable managerial versatility in my book.