Tactics Under Maresca

[Phube]

I’m starting to think a lot of the “Yes we’ve won a record amount of points, got the 2nd highest goals for and almost halved the nearest goals against but wouldn’t it be more fun if we hoofed it up to a big man/little man combo” brigade; don’t like it because we score late on and they’ve already left the ground at 75 mins to ‘beat the traffic’ and haven’t seen many goals this season? 

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Some people would much rather see constant running with blood and thunder than points and promotion.

Maybe rugby is more their thing…. 

Last season I thought we were playing just that with our exclusive sideway and backwards passing (Not said that in a while!)

 

What we're seeing now is like a different game in a positive way. Yet more people seem to be vocal and complaining about it compared to the past 2 years+ which truly astounds me.

[Blanchflower78]

Watching Ange-Ball, delightful stuff. Quick, exciting, purposeful. 

 

Certainly prefer this to Pep/Enzo approach. All opinions of course but those who say modern football has to be more technical and pedestrian need to watch this. 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, davieG said:

I understand all that but the quality, commitment and intent were just not there. It seems like, in the first half we're happy to just keep the ball and stop them scoring. Most of those shots came in the last 10 mins.

I'm interested in the tactical/technical approach to the game but I pay my money to be entertained and that doesn't just mean scoring goals. I want to see actions and events that get me out of my seat. When you find yourself looking at the the crowd, how the stadium looks, chatting with your neighbour because there's nothing entertaining on  the pitch then somethings not right. 

The last ten mins and the second half were much more acceptable, weren't the tactical set ups alike, if so what was the difference?  Wee upped our intent, woke up from our stupor on the pitch which then woke the  crowd up.

Why can't we do this for 90mins, other teams seem to manage it?

 

These other teams that 'manage it' - i'm not sure who you're thinking of that go all in for 90 minutes - against us, i suppose leeds and sunderland did, but sunderland failed to score, and leeds needed a corner, the woodwork and a last minute wonder save to get something for all their effort. but are they playing like that week in, week out? - i suspect not.  And i think in part, you answer the second part yourself - why can't we do it for 90 minutes? - because they're human - that intensity that saw us totally dominate just can't be sustained for more than 30-40 minutes, we tire out our pray and then press the accelerator - it' so simple, it's brilliant -  and it works, we don't need to do it for 90 minutes.

 

As for being bored in the meantime - against watford it took us 14 minutes to manage a shot, can that be put down entirely to us being poor, or for watford having a bit of a go before parking the bus, or simply that bus parking - or perhaps a bit of all three.

but in the next 15 minutes we had four shots, the next 15 minutes 7 shots, after the break we had 3 shots (but we do tend to start the 2nd half slow), the next 15 we had 4 shots, the rest of the game 6 shots - that's a lot of action and events by my book! In fact if you take away the first 14 minutes and the last period where watford started playing - that's a 68 minute spell where we had 22 shots,  that's a shot on average every 3 minutes - is it really such a hardship that outside of this period there isn't much happening?

 

I'm not sure what people expect to see, have we ever been a swashbuckling all action team? the problem isn't that it's any more boring than any other team, it's just that we're letting the ball do the work - work smart, not hard - so it seems like nothing is happening, when in reality we're creating more chances and scoring more goals than any other team, just in a very gentle easy style.

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, ARTY_FOX said:

We've leaned too hard into the 'move the ball and tire them out' approach for the last few games. It probably will work in a Christmas congestion to be fair but I'm hoping it's just been transitioning for that rather than what becomes the norm. We're capable of winning games early and playing that way for the rest of the game. 

Had our finishing been better we had more than enough chances to have put that game to bed by half time, long before they were tired out - so it's not fair to say we're relying on tiring teams out to win games, that really is our safety net.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, davieG said:

I'm ok with the tactics when they're being carried out properly and with players that look like they're up for it and want to put the effort In. Seemingly they didn't for the first 35 or so mins yesterday. Unless they were under orders not to then I'm not entertained by the tactics. 

Then this all comes down to how one perceives things.  

As spectators we have to ask ourselves: is this a team patiently looking for an opportunity to break down a deep set opponent, or is this a bunch of players that don't care and can't be arsed.

 

For me it is clearly the first of these.  And given the results we've had, it seems apparent that these players are up for it and are certainly putting the effort in - only we play a style where effort is not running about like an idiot it's letting the ball do the work.

[Matt]

58 minutes ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Watching Ange-Ball, delightful stuff. Quick, exciting, purposeful. 

 

Certainly prefer this to Pep/Enzo approach. All opinions of course but those who say modern football has to be more technical and pedestrian need to watch this. 

100%. (Edit - although someone's going to make the point despite Ange-Ball they lost, again. Likewise Chelsea from the odd bits i've seen are quite a decent, exciting and refreshing watch they keep losing)

 

Although I don't necessarily agree Enzo plays like Man City/Pep (They may have changed for all I know, I've not watched a Man City game for a few years, I refuse to watch games they're involved in, I can't watch them, they bore the shit out of me) - Unfortunately as a results of their success they've ruined football in the way so many other teams try and emulate it (That's on the other teams at fault for that, not Man City, they play that way because it works for them, despite it being boring), it might be successful for them, doesn't mean it is for everyone else, it certainly wasn't for us last season.

 

I think it's a lazy opinion just because Enzo was Pep's assistant and worked for Man City that we play like them, I mean correct me if i'm wrong but Enzo's played under and was Pellegrini's assistant for longer with various clubs, that's not discounting he learnt nothing from his time under Pep/Man City, of course he would have done. (Yes I realise Pellegrini was Man City's manager but they didn't play like they do under Pep back then - they were quite likeable and exciting back then)

 

As I say, you only have to speak to match going fans of other clubs or listen to phones in, most people are bored of their team and the modern day game, it's far from exclusive to us.

 

What's happened to throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition certainly later in games, the Middlesbrough game being a prime example for ourselves - and no, I don't mean route one, again another lazy opinion and case of football snobbery.

 

Edited 26 November 2023 by Matt

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Some people would much rather see constant running with blood and thunder than points and promotion.

Maybe rugby is more their thing…. 

I suspect that the Leeds we witnessed is not the Leeds that turns up every day.

I watched their game against stoke, and they spent long periods sitting deep and defending and hardly created anything.

[HybridFox]

Pleased we got the win in the end but that game was crying to throw 2 strikers on against a team that was offering nothing in return. I just wish we'd have a Plan B to the way we play

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-enzo-maresca-told-leicester-8934083

 

Leicester City heeded Enzo Maresca’s half-time instruction to produce one of their most dominant 45 minutes of the season and clinch a deserved victory over Watford.

While City had not played badly in the first period at the King Power Stadium, they could not convert their domination into chances. But after being told to up the tempo by Maresca at the interval, the intensity of their play picked up, allowing them to pile on the pressure and eventually get the breakthrough goal.

[Lionator]

Those complaining, what would you like to see instead?

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Those complaining, what would you like to see instead?

Their youth returned? Seriously, I do wonder this, but can only assume it some form of idealised non-stop slick powerful football, a sort no-one can play for 90 minutes.

Edited 26 November 2023 by Dahnsouff

[Bordersfox]

19 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Their youth returned? Seriously, I do wonder this, but can only assume it some form of idealised non-stop slick powerful football, a sort no-one can play for 90 minutes.

There's also a lot of rose tinted specs around football generally.  'I've fallen out of love with football'. 

 

I can understand it in terms of the dirty money swilling around the game.  But in terms of the football itself?  There was some absolute filth being played in the 90's and noughties.  Yes, some good stuff but also a lot of tripe.

 

I would like my youth returned though.  

Edited 26 November 2023 by Bordersfox

[Stevosevic]

People don’t seem to realise how many square pegs we have in round holes atm yet we keep winning. 
 

We have strikers not really used to this system, Ndidi and KDH playing as number 8s when neither are creative and have this as their best position. 
 

Next summer transfer window is massive to get players in at a higher premier league level. 

Edited 26 November 2023 by Stevosevic

[Les-TA-Jon]

2 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Watching Ange-Ball, delightful stuff. Quick, exciting, purposeful. 

 

Certainly prefer this to Pep/Enzo approach. All opinions of course but those who say modern football has to be more technical and pedestrian need to watch this. 

And yet they’ve just lost 3 in a row and close to being out of the title race…

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Watching Ange-Ball, delightful stuff. Quick, exciting, purposeful. 

 

Certainly prefer this to Pep/Enzo approach. All opinions of course but those who say modern football has to be more technical and pedestrian need to watch this. 

The problem with this is that not every team is set up to play this way (including, by the looks of it spurs) - i'm sure our defence would be horribly exposed by this type of football...

 

Which brings us to the fact that playing this way is not necessarily going to work - granted spurs started well but their last three games they've lost after taking the lead, one can forgive them the chelsea loss having lost a player (that said, 3 of their wins came against 10 or 9 men), but to concede leads against wolves and villa (at home, no less) is a really worrying trend.

 

It's all well and good calling for a certain type of football, but it has to fit the personnel available and the tactical philosophy of the manager.  enzo clearly is a student of the game and, so far, he has literally made the best career start by any manager ever, so clearly it's a formula that works, if it's not to your taste, fair enough, but whining about it at any given opportunity isn't going to change anything - I can only suggest that you look closer at the logic behind playing the way we do and learn to enjoy it, surely it has to be better than watching us lose week in week out?

[Chelmofox]

31 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Those complaining, what would you like to see instead?

I'm really struggling with the negativity. I suppose it helps they I quite like the dominating football. I like to think i can see it for what it is, which is a work in progress. But it's a work in progress that has given us a huge head start in objective of getting promoted.  

 

I think because we have done well, a lot of goalposts have been moved.  Now i'm largely hearing we are terrible because we haven't teared enough teams to pieces, or that we have only scored more than 3 goals in a game x times which simply isn't good enough.   The latest comparisons between Enzo and Rodgers have really annoyed me too. Enzo has had to take a dysfunctional relegated shambles (left over by the turgid one), and completely reset their mentality. He's done this whilst losing the best players, and with a stupid preseason.  To top it off, Enzo actually comes across as a top bloke. To think the unrequited love that Mr Media got when he was literally belittling the club and its owners, makes me genuinely sad. 

 

I don't think Enzo has the squad he wants, by some considerable margin. He also has a lot of young prospects not quite ready yet. He's not moaning about 'qualiteeee' or 'intesiteee', he's getting on with it and getting the best out of who he has. Shocks me that people are so quickly willing to call him 'poundland pep' or 'fraud'. 

[Chelmofox]

16 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

And yet they’ve just lost 3 in a row and close to being out of the title race…

Yeah - but they are getting it 'up there'.  This is another team that's become reliant on Maddison (they will also notice that he's not great when he comes back from injury).  They are away to Man City next. They will quickly slip back to 6th-8th. 

[Unabomber]

What football do people prefer. This season so far or Nigel’s championship winning football? Very different but similar results. 

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

What football do people prefer. This season so far or Nigel’s championship winning football? Very different but similar results. 

Memory wears big white trainers, so not sure the answers would be anything other than more nostalgia tbh

[Unabomber]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Memory wears big white trainers, so not sure the answers would be anything other than more nostalgia tbh

Ok 1 vote for Nigel, let’s see how it pans out 

[Craig]

3 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Watching Ange-Ball, delightful stuff. Quick, exciting, purposeful. 

 

Certainly prefer this to Pep/Enzo approach. All opinions of course but those who say modern football has to be more technical and pedestrian need to watch this. 

Yes and look at how knackered they were in the second half, and how long their injury/suspension list is.

 

The way we play is not only effective in terms of results and dominating almost every single game we play, but it is also helping preserve players through a 50+ game season.

[Unabomber]

3 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Watching Ange-Ball, delightful stuff. Quick, exciting, purposeful. 

 

Certainly prefer this to Pep/Enzo approach. All opinions of course but those who say modern football has to be more technical and pedestrian need to watch this. 

Man you’re clueless. He lost 

[Matt]

48 minutes ago, Craig said:

Yes and look at how knackered they were in the second half, and how long their injury/suspension list is.

 

The way we play is not only effective in terms of results and dominating almost every single game we play, but it is also helping preserve players through a 50+ game season.

These are more than fair and valid points.

 

There is something I could predictably say (even by my standards) against the first part but I won't because I really need to move on from the last few years. 

 

Edited 26 November 2023 by Matt

[Guest Mee-9]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

Those complaining, what would you like to see instead?

The ball getting into advanced positions quicker rather than being played constantly back. We get into so many decent positions but the ball just gets played back to the centre halves. I'd rather us take a risk going forward. There was a point yesterday when the ball kept being passed sidewards on the edge of their box as it seemed no one had the bottle to shoot.  

 

Strikers not picking the ball up where CDMs should be and not playing with their backs to goal. 

 

Better coaching with regards to decision making. (Mavididi for example) 

 

Counter attacking at times quickly rather than laborious build up with little effect. 

 

Also those pissing goal kicks. 3 players touch the ball before it even leaves our box.