Tactics Under Maresca

[The Year Of The Fox]

12 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

How on earth is this the first time you've seen us this season? 

I said in another thread that I’ve just completely lost the love. Possession football most definitely isn’t for me. Haven’t even bothered renewing my firestick either so haven’t seen us on TV too

 

I hoped to go on Saturday and try to get some of the love back. All I got was reassurance that I don’t miss it at all 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Lillehamring]

14 hours ago, Mee-9 said:

The ball getting into advanced positions quicker rather than being played constantly back. We get into so many decent positions but the ball just gets played back to the centre halves. I'd rather us take a risk going forward. There was a point yesterday when the ball kept being passed sidewards on the edge of their box as it seemed no one had the bottle to shoot.  

 

Strikers not picking the ball up where CDMs should be and not playing with their backs to goal. 

 

Better coaching with regards to decision making. (Mavididi for example) 

 

Counter attacking at times quickly rather than laborious build up with little effect. 

 

Also those pissing goal kicks. 3 players touch the ball before it even leaves our box. 

 

 

I think your third point answers your first - when the bi-product of our 'boring' football is 23 shots, the problem isn't the build up, it's the end product - with none of our front 5 really impressing so far.

People tend to forget that the passing amongst the defenders, in many games, takes place on the half way line or even in the opposition half, certainly as the game wears on, so it's not a lack of being in an advanced position or even how quickly we get there, it's what we do with it when we get there.

 

Our counter attacking is actually subject to the same shortfall, we often find ourselves breaking, sometimes with an overload, but almost invariably whoever is on the ball ****s it up with a bad decision or a bad pass.  certainly in the more recent games.

[sylofox]

40 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I said in another thread that I’ve just completely lost the love. Possession football most definitely isn’t for me. Haven’t even bothered renewing my firestick either so haven’t seen us on TV too

 

I hoped to go on Saturday and try to get some of the love back. All I got was reassurance that I don’t miss it at all 🤷🏻‍♂️

I agree. It's Rodgers ball done better. But also we are not playing sides with the quality the prem has.

 

I'm sure we will go up this season. But we need either huge changes to the playing staff or our system.

 

Otherwise next season will be last season revisited. Then back to a Yoyo club we go. 

 

I fail to see why we can't play this system but break at pace when we want. We control games but do nothing but struggle to score.

 

The two banks of four we allow the opposition to create then dont break. They can't create them if we hit them faster.

 

The opposition allow us to control the possession. They know we struggle to break teams down and hope to hit us on the break.

 

Hmmmmmm who was it the won the premier league doing just that.

 

We shown everyone how to beat the possesion based teams/games.

[Lillehamring]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

 

 

That I think is Enzo's fixation. By completely dominating possession, recycling the ball and deliberately add pedestrian football in with passages of quicker passing, all in the name of wearing teams down. He talks repeatedly about the plan being to destroy teams in the final 15-20 minutes, whether that's the entire game plan or part of the advantages of playing the way we do, I'm not so sure. It would be dangerous to limit true attacking dominance to less than a quarter of the game and not foresee occasions where it doesn't happen.

 

 

Oddly enough, we're playing in a way that i've hated watching Spain play for years - ie. endless passing in the hope of creating a chance and, if nothing has happened by 70 minutes, throw everything at the goal.

 

The way we tire out teams, and the quality advantage we have means that the last 15-20 minute blitzkrieg is the safety net in case we haven't broken down the opponent.  Annoyingly we haven't scored early that often to allow us to not need the blitzkrieg part of our game.  So i don't hink it's a case of limiting our attacking dominance, it's actually, ha, a Plan A and a Plan B.   Plan A is all softly softly catchee monkey patient play trying to find the gaps, plan B is blitzkrieg.

[Lillehamring]

13 hours ago, sylofox said:

We are to slow and pedestrian. The easy plan B is to just up the pace or vary it.

 

The single pace we play gives teams time to drop back and set up two banks of four.

 

As soon as that happens we struggle.

But we don't play at 'a single pace' - this has been discussed throughout this thread - the slow play is merely the preamble to a sudden increase in pace when the gaps appear.

The problem recently is that these bursts of pace haven't been bursty enough.  But even when we up the intensity, there will still be the seemingly interminable standing on the ball phases - because that's the key to the system.

 

Right now we are, in dancing parlance, playing a waltz: slow slow quick quick slow - it's that extra step.  what we should be doing (and have been doing), (perfect, i know) is a foxtrot: slow slow quick quick.

[Lillehamring]

12 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Lots of teams in the top 6 dropped points this weekend, nay of them had lethargic performances. The reason? International Break disrupted the rhythm of a lot of teams, us included.

 

What did you think about the second half performance? Many of us don't like the overly slow and patient approach. But do you enjoy our play when we ramp up the pressure?

 

For me, when we step it up, we are very good to watch and it's enthralling and entertaining. However, I definitely think we wait too long before getting into our flow. I do think there's a lot to be said about playing your way into games, and it's hard to be 100% right from the get go, but often I feel like the first 20-30 minutes we do nothing at all !

 

I don't think that's intentional from Enzo though, and we should note he's only been here 6 months now, and only just started the squad transformation.

But enzo definitely adjusted from the boro game, where he hardly changed anything and left it late when he did - his intentions against watford were very clear - improve straight away or i make changes.  and he did, and we kicked on much earlier.

[Lillehamring]

13 hours ago, murphy said:

Well, I'm not really complaining for two reasons.  One, we're top of the league and two, after Puel, Rodgers and now Maresca, it would be safe to assume that this is the direction that Top wants to take us, so we'd better accept it.

 

However, .it is boring imo.  Possession football, by its very nature is stifling.  In order to keep the ball you often have to go backwards and sideways,  It is incompatible with the idea of taking risks.  Its a safety first, cautious, ultra-disciplined, over-coached, drain the life out of the game approach.  I would rather see mavericks than automatons.  

The problem is we have the mavericks (mavididi, fatawu, vardy, even KDH) - the problem is they're largely ineffective, if there was end product from these players it would be the perfect counterbalance to the sedate winks/vesty/hermansen core.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I said in another thread that I’ve just completely lost the love. Possession football most definitely isn’t for me. Haven’t even bothered renewing my firestick either so haven’t seen us on TV too

 

I hoped to go on Saturday and try to get some of the love back. All I got was reassurance that I don’t miss it at all 🤷🏻‍♂️

I'm the same; gave up my season ticket this season (was happening whether we got relegated or not). I don't watch much football on tv any more, I've only been down to two games, and barring a few spells of good football, I'd been bored rigid again when I watched.

 

The manager has done a grand job; you can't argue with the results. But football isn't for me at the moment. Going down on Saturday, all I got was reassurance that I'd made the right decision. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

18 minutes ago, sylofox said:

I agree. It's Rodgers ball done better. But also we are not playing sides with the quality the prem has.

 

I'm sure we will go up this season. But we need either huge changes to the playing staff or our system.

 

Otherwise next season will be last season revisited. Then back to a Yoyo club we go. 

 

I fail to see why we can't play this system but break at pace when we want. We control games but do nothing but struggle to score.

 

The two banks of four we allow the opposition to create then dont break. They can't create them if we hit them faster.

 

The opposition allow us to control the possession. They know we struggle to break teams down and hope to hit us on the break.

 

Hmmmmmm who was it the won the premier league doing just that.

 

We shown everyone how to beat the possesion based teams/games.

Correct

 

However, all you get these days as a response is ‘the games changed’ Its the definitive way to know that someone knows nothing about football, when they regurgitate that phrase.

 

 

I know it’s been a while since I went down the KP, but I’d forgotten teams are now awarded a penalty if the goalkeeper kicks it long, or a defender makes a forward pass

[The Year Of The Fox]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I'm the same; gave up my season ticket this season (was happening whether we got relegated or not). I don't watch much football on tv any more, I've only been down to two games, and barring a few spells of good football, I'd been bored rigid again when I watched.

 

The manager has done a grand job; you can't argue with the results. But football isn't for me at the moment. Going down on Saturday, all I got was reassurance that I'd made the right decision. 

It also doesn’t help in that we’ve been so spoilt these last 10 years. We’ve lived EVERY football fans dream other than Citeh, Liverpool etc etc

 

I was trying to explain it to the lads on Saturday- it’s like boning Margot Robbie 3 times a day for 5 years solid, to then end up splitting up and end up with banging a bird from your local for the rest of your life. How can you get up for that? You can’t. I certainly can’t anyway 

[StriderHiryu]

14 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

But enzo definitely adjusted from the boro game, where he hardly changed anything and left it late when he did - his intentions against watford were very clear - improve straight away or i make changes.  and he did, and we kicked on much earlier.

Yeah as said in my write-up, he made changes at 55 minutes and I felt that really kicked us on a gear.

[messerschmitt]

I'm really enjoying this season and what Enzo has managed over a short time.

I wasn't a fan of the type of game we used to play. Mark Albrighton putting 20 crosses in the box for the keeper to claim 5 and the other 15 to be headed away by the defence.

The goal kick pumped down the field for their defenders to head it back and then a game of head tennis which we usually lost only to try to win the ball back.

I'm lucky enough to still be able to play and I hate seeing someone aimlessly kick the ball forward.

I would absolutely love to play in this Leicester team

[HighPeakFox]

8 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

It also doesn’t help in that we’ve been so spoilt these last 10 years. We’ve lived EVERY football fans dream other than Citeh, Liverpool etc etc

Yes, this is it, really, and it also explains so much of the apathy when it comes to people vocally backing the team.

[The Year Of The Fox]

2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Yes, this is it, really, and it also explains so much of the apathy when it comes to people vocally backing the team.

Then you have people like myself- now 37, used to shout myself hoarse through the past 14 years as a STH. I’ve now ‘grown up’ from wanting to do that (I even SAT in SK3 on Saturday and had no FOMO from L block) 

 

People aged 20-30 now were 10-20 back then when the atmosphere was decent- they probably expect it to be how they remember it back then, without realising that they have to do something about it themselves 

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Then you have people like myself- now 37, used to shout myself hoarse through the past 14 years as a STH. I’ve now ‘grown up’ from wanting to do that (I even SAT in SK3 on Saturday and had no FOMO from L block) 

 

People aged 20-30 now were 10-20 back then when the atmosphere was decent- they probably expect it to be how they remember it back then, without realising that they have to do something about it themselves 

I have to admire you, and @Babylon - you've taken the consistent, honest route of not enjoying it and thus choosing to not go anymore. Too many people are still turning up and then repeatedly moaning about it (apparently). That sounds like the definition of madness to me, and tends to support the view that a sub-section of people just look for reasons to complain, be it at the football or elsewhere.

[Babylon]

19 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

It also doesn’t help in that we’ve been so spoilt these last 10 years. We’ve lived EVERY football fans dream other than Citeh, Liverpool etc etc

 

I was trying to explain it to the lads on Saturday- it’s like boning Margot Robbie 3 times a day for 5 years solid, to then end up splitting up and end up with banging a bird from your local for the rest of your life. How can you get up for that? You can’t. I certainly can’t anyway 

It's very much down to us doing all you could ever dream of and more. A long time ago I said I'd retire if I saw us win the FA cup... I saw that AND the Premier league.

 

Although, when I've seen an enjoyable, high tempo interesting game, it reminds me why I loved it. A bit more of that and I'd probably get the bug back, because now for me it's more about entertainment. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

On 26/11/2023 at 07:25, The Year Of The Fox said:

It’s a hideous watch 

 

First time I’ve seen us this season. (Whether that be inside the stadium or on TV) but that sort of football is awful.

 

Will we win the league? Easily. 
Would I enjoy myself going down the KP week in week out? Definitely not.

 

The excitement of that sort of football is as down there as Rodgers’ 

Given how polemical you've been about Rodgers and the last 2 years, you'd think you might be enjoying us winning most games and being top? 

 

Might the simpler explanation be that you just need a different hobby? 

[The Year Of The Fox]

3 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Given how polemical you've been about Rodgers and the last 2 years, you'd think you might be enjoying us winning most games and being top? 

 

Might the simpler explanation be that you just need a different hobby? 

Thats true. That’s why I’m playing golf (horrendously) most weekends these days. 
 

I only went on Saturday as it was a mates birthday whereby we always have a good session for it 

[Les-TA-Jon]

34 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

but I’d forgotten teams are now awarded a penalty if the goalkeeper kicks it long, or a defender makes a forward pass

Not sure where to fact check this but I imagine Hermansen and Vestergaard would be close to top compared to the rest of the league for forward, line breaking passes into midfield. 

 

But if you don't watch us, then you obviously won't know how we play...

[Ric Flair]

I find it unthinkable that people ought to find a new hobby if they've fallen out of love with football. Everyone is different and I don't get to go as often as I did in the 90's through to the last few years but I'm very much in the camp that I'd wallow in misery still enduring supporting Leicester and football itself than alleviating myself of it and being content doing something else.

 

Fair play to anyone that can. Honesty is admirable. I find the opinions on liking or disliking a certain style of football fascinating. Those saying just don't watch or don't go, how about smear yourself in vaseline and go for a rebirth. 

[Nod.E]

57 minutes ago, sylofox said:

I agree. It's Rodgers ball done better. But also we are not playing sides with the quality the prem has.

 

I'm sure we will go up this season. But we need either huge changes to the playing staff or our system.

 

Otherwise next season will be last season revisited. Then back to a Yoyo club we go. 

 

I fail to see why we can't play this system but break at pace when we want. We control games but do nothing but struggle to score.

 

The two banks of four we allow the opposition to create then dont break. They can't create them if we hit them faster.

 

The opposition allow us to control the possession. They know we struggle to break teams down and hope to hit us on the break.

 

Hmmmmmm who was it the won the premier league doing just that.

 

We shown everyone how to beat the possesion based teams/games.

We could play counter attacking football when we won the league because we were underdogs. Teams took the game to us. 

 

We also had Vardy at the peak of his powers and was among the fastest players in the game at the time. 

 

We are playing a style of football that suits the situation we're in and with the players we have. Deal with it.

 

This mindless whinging is really beginning to p*ss me off. 

[Nod.E]

41 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Correct

 

However, all you get these days as a response is ‘the games changed’ Its the definitive way to know that someone knows nothing about football, when they regurgitate that phrase.

 

 

I know it’s been a while since I went down the KP, but I’d forgotten teams are now awarded a penalty if the goalkeeper kicks it long, or a defender makes a forward pass

Look, you've obviously made your mind up so nothing I say is going to change that.

 

But don't make yourself look silly. Vestergaard and Doyle while he was fit have been responsible for the best forward passing from defenders I've seen in a Leicester side.

 

Personally I think you (and others) just don't like the Championship, or you don't like seeing us have to break down teams that come and park the bus. Or both. 

 

What we see is purely a reaction to that.

 

It's almost as though it's a delayed reaction. All the people that should have been angry at Rodgers when it was clear we were a sinking ship have now awoken and levelling their anger at a manager that is doing a fantastic job of rebuilding us.

 

Leicester City fans, everybody. Special breed.

[The Year Of The Fox]

4 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Look, you've obviously made your mind up so nothing I say is going to change that.

 

But don't make yourself look silly. Vestergaard and Doyle while he was fit have been responsible for the best forward passing from defenders I've seen in a Leicester side.

 

Personally I think you (and others) just don't like the Championship, or you don't like seeing us have to break down teams that come and park the bus. Or both. 

 

What we see is purely a reaction to that.

 

It's almost as though it's a delayed reaction. All the people that should have been angry at Rodgers when it was clear we were a sinking ship have now awoken and levelling their anger at a manager that is doing a fantastic job of rebuilding us.

 

Leicester City fans, everybody. Special breed.

I actually think the Championship is a better league to be in (when winning) and I was very very angry at Rodgers, for a longer period than lots of others- it was me who did the Zak Rodgers/Brenda Nout birthday wishes 

[murphy]

53 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

The problem is we have the mavericks (mavididi, fatawu, vardy, even KDH) - the problem is they're largely ineffective, if there was end product from these players it would be the perfect counterbalance to the sedate winks/vesty/hermansen core.

I've perhaps exaggerated in order to make my point.  Speaking generally about this kind of possession style, for want of a better phrase, it often encourages the path (pass?) of least resistance. in order to keep the ball and therefore sacrifices directness and flair.  

 

Anyway,I just want to point out that none of this is intended as a criticism of Maresca.  We know that he is a proponent of this kind of style and he has implemented it very successfully but what has really impressed me is that he has come in and instantly swept away the malaise that hung over the team last year.  I thought that the hangover might endure.

[HighPeakFox]

Keep it social guys - we can disagree without getting personal. I'm trying to get better at looking to understand different points of view, or see past how it's put.