Tactics Under Maresca

[ThumbsUp]

Why has the Tactics Under Maresca thread turned into a circle jerk of blokes patting themselves on the back for no longer enjoying football?

[EastAnglianFox]

I understand the type of football Enzo was always going to go with and fair to say we are in a heck of a position moving towards the mid point.

 

My only gripe is, with this squad and the depth of it then I’d bloody love to see us go from minute one, full intensity no letting up, even dealing with the low block id fancy us to put most teams away by half time then allowing us to rotate later on with our ridiculously stacked bench.

 

personally think that would make for a better atmosphere in the ground also as at the moment it just seems a bit of a grind

[The_77]

59 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

We could play counter attacking football when we won the league because we were underdogs. Teams took the game to us. 

 

We also had Vardy at the peak of his powers and was among the fastest players in the game at the time. 

 

We are playing a style of football that suits the situation we're in and with the players we have. Deal with it.

 

This mindless whinging is really beginning to p*ss me off. 

Seriously, can you imagine large groups of Atleti fans acting like this about Simeone’s tactics? We’re playing some incredibly effective football compared to the rest of the division— we’re on pace to break the points record and some think we need a Plan C or even D! Plan A is working. 😂 We just dominated Watford and were missing arguably the best player in the division. 

 

The players are finally loving the football they get to play, we have an international footballer saying he wants to stay and fight for his playing time, and, yes, I’ll repeat it: we’re on pace to break the points record. 

Edited 27 November 2023 by The_77
Typo

[The_77]

5 minutes ago, EastAnglianFox said:

I understand the type of football Enzo was always going to go with and fair to say we are in a heck of a position moving towards the mid point.

 

My only gripe is, with this squad and the depth of it then I’d bloody love to see us go from minute one, full intensity no letting up, even dealing with the low block id fancy us to put most teams away by half time then allowing us to rotate later on with our ridiculously stacked bench.

 

personally think that would make for a better atmosphere in the ground also as at the moment it just seems a bit of a grind

It’s the Championship, it’s a grind. We have to be pragmatic and get through the 46-game season or else we’ll pull a Leeds and burn out and blow the season. 

[UniFox21]

Considering we like to play quick passes further up the pitch, our ball boys are bloody slow chucking the ball back to them for a throw/corner etc 

[BKLFox]

A lot seem to want us to play like Spurs but their gung-ho approach has them 2nd bottom in the form table sitting only above Burnley, who incidentally are the only team Spurs have looked relatively comfortable against.

Yes they beat Liverpool but Liverpool were down to 9 men and it still took a long injury time own goal to nic that game.

They have conceded 8 goals in the last 3 games and only scored 3 it’s not even like the gung-ho approach is leading to goals.

They have Man C next so u’d assume it will be 4 losses on the bounce, I can only imagine the slating our team / manager would be getting if we were in that predicament & pound to a pinch there would be calls for not over committing with every attack I’m sure.

 

My take away of this is that it would seem “football is a results business” only when your losing and on the slide, as that was mentioned a lot last season.

[sylofox]

1 hour ago, Nod.E said:

We could play counter attacking football when we won the league because we were underdogs. Teams took the game to us. 

 

We also had Vardy at the peak of his powers and was among the fastest players in the game at the time. 

 

We are playing a style of football that suits the situation we're in and with the players we have. Deal with it.

 

This mindless whinging is really beginning to p*ss me off. 

 

 

Deal with it.

 

I like everyone on here is entitled to an opinion.

 

Perhaps you need to learn to live with that.

 

When it's your forum you can tell us what to do.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, ThumbsUp said:

Why has the Tactics Under Maresca thread turned into a circle jerk of blokes patting themselves on the back for no longer enjoying football?

Petition to change the thread title?

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, EastAnglianFox said:

I understand the type of football Enzo was always going to go with and fair to say we are in a heck of a position moving towards the mid point.

 

My only gripe is, with this squad and the depth of it then I’d bloody love to see us go from minute one, full intensity no letting up, even dealing with the low block id fancy us to put most teams away by half time then allowing us to rotate later on with our ridiculously stacked bench.

 

personally think that would make for a better atmosphere in the ground also as at the moment it just seems a bit of a grind

I'd also like to see Tyson Fury come out round one punching like mad as they do in the Rocky films.  The thing is, if you do and they weather the storm, you kill yourselves in the process.  

 

I too would love to see football like that, but the reality is unless 2 teams go for it then it's very unlikely to happen. And i can't see it happening that often without some serious consequences. 

 

From what we have read, Enzo also wanted the intensity turned up a notch as well, and most of the 2nd half was much better. All part of getting the defensive / offensive battle right.

[The Belgian]

3 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

I think your third point answers your first - when the bi-product of our 'boring' football is 23 shots, the problem isn't the build up, it's the end product - with none of our front 5 really impressing so far.

People tend to forget that the passing amongst the defenders, in many games, takes place on the half way line or even in the opposition half, certainly as the game wears on, so it's not a lack of being in an advanced position or even how quickly we get there, it's what we do with it when we get there.

 

Our counter attacking is actually subject to the same shortfall, we often find ourselves breaking, sometimes with an overload, but almost invariably whoever is on the ball ****s it up with a bad decision or a bad pass.  certainly in the more recent games.

A genuinely honest question as I don't follow the British/English media closely (and maybe someone here can give me the answer) : Why isn't Maresca using Patson Daka (anymore)? I know he's no "killer" with 4 goals and 4 assists last season, but surely in the Championship he could/would do better ...

[Nod.E]

1 hour ago, sylofox said:

 

 

Deal with it.

 

I like everyone on here is entitled to an opinion.

 

Perhaps you need to learn to live with that.

 

When it's your forum you can tell us what to do.

The right to opinion doesn't mean you won't get shot down when your opinion stinks.

 

The idea that the best route out of my house is out of the third floor window is an opinion, but should I act on that? No, because that would be a crap opinion.

 

Dare I say it, it would be an opinion worthy of criticism. I know, shocking. 

Edited 27 November 2023 by Nod.E

[Stevosevic]

 

 

[Chelmofox]

11 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

 

 

Sheffield Wednesday 

[UniFox21]

37 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

 

 

Brilliant we've started to create more chances, now we just need to take them 

[SecretPro]

2 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Brilliant we've started to create more chances, now we just need to take them 

Not going to happen if we start Kel

[UniFox21]

14 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Not going to happen if we start Kel

Wouldn't say he really had any chances as he just wasn't involved tbh. 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

It also doesn’t help in that we’ve been so spoilt these last 10 years. We’ve lived EVERY football fans dream other than Citeh, Liverpool etc etc

 

I was trying to explain it to the lads on Saturday- it’s like boning Margot Robbie 3 times a day for 5 years solid, to then end up splitting up and end up with banging a bird from your local for the rest of your life. How can you get up for that? You can’t. I certainly can’t anyway 

I'd rather watch us how we're playing this season than the dross we served up (CL aside) in the two seasons after we won the league, or last season.

The only three seasons we were actually a consistently good watch in the PL was 15/16 and the two years when rodgers was good - the rest was at best average.

 

Whatever you may feel about our current style, the quality is there, the goals are there and the times when we really click have been fabulous - i assume you've seen enough highlights to have caught the 33-pass goal, for example - yes, we've become a much more acquired taste under enzo, but learn how to appreciate it and it tastes really good.  And just wait until it matures!

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Not sure where to fact check this but I imagine Hermansen and Vestergaard would be close to top compared to the rest of the league for forward, line breaking passes into midfield. 

 

But if you don't watch us, then you obviously won't know how we play...

Progressive Passing Distance

1.	Viktor Johansson • Rotherham Utd	12808
2.	Jannik Vestergaard • Leicester City	10934
3.	Mads Hermansen • Leicester City	10212

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Keep it social guys - we can disagree without getting personal. I'm trying to get better at looking to understand different points of view, or see past how it's put. 

Although, let's face it, none of these 'we suck' 'i'm bored' posts belong in this thread.  There'd be less animosity if we stuck to the topic and got back to tactics!

[fuchsntf]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

I'd rather watch us how we're playing this season than the dross we served up (CL aside) in the two seasons after we won the league, or last season.

The only three seasons we were actually a consistently good watch in the PL was 15/16 and the two years when rodgers was good - the rest was at best average.

 

Whatever you may feel about our current style, the quality is there, the goals are there and the times when we really click have been fabulous - i assume you've seen enough highlights to have caught the 33-pass goal, for example - yes, we've become a much more acquired taste under enzo, but learn how to appreciate it and it tastes really good.  And just wait until it matures!

Some have to swallow what they would like and accept the normal fan of 90+ clubs 

have to look reality in the face to enjoy their past time and sport..

 

I actually believe Peps teams have been better than the great Barcelona team..

he has ironed out his own system weaknesses,with a mixed groups some better ,

some not so good individuals for his purposes…

 

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, EastAnglianFox said:

I understand the type of football Enzo was always going to go with and fair to say we are in a heck of a position moving towards the mid point.

 

My only gripe is, with this squad and the depth of it then I’d bloody love to see us go from minute one, full intensity no letting up, even dealing with the low block id fancy us to put most teams away by half time then allowing us to rotate later on with our ridiculously stacked bench.

 

personally think that would make for a better atmosphere in the ground also as at the moment it just seems a bit of a grind

because going all in early on is no guarantee that we'll 'put teams away by half time'.  Also most of these teams sitting deep have a game plan to go on the attack last 20-minutes or so if they're still in the game - if we don't get the goals we leave ourselves vulnerable.

 

the way we're playing still gives us the chance to finish games off by half time, anyway - we had more than enough chances to have got a few goals first half against watford, so why bust a gut  just to leave yourself shattered for the last half hour, when alternatively you can play it easy, still get some early goals and then see out the game.

 

You can't go all in for 90 minutes, so there's going to be a phase of the game where we have to control the ball - logic suggests it's better to do that early, given that it doesn't necessarily influence the likelihood of us scoring or not.

 

Those complaining need to realise that playing with more intensity/speed/urgency DOES NOT GUARANTEE that we will score more goals.  playing the way we do has still seen us score 12 1st half goals, only 6 teams have scored more  (13, 15, 16, 16, 17 & 19)

 

But equally it's worth noting what impact this has on their defensive capabilities - those teams have conceded 11,17,11.12,13 & 11, respectively, we've conceded 6.  And the benefits in the 2nd half are clear - those teams 2nd half are 15-6, 15-15, 11-8, 13-15, 11-14, 17-12 - we are 19-4.  

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Considering we like to play quick passes further up the pitch, our ball boys are bloody slow chucking the ball back to them for a throw/corner etc 

An excellent tactical observation

 

[Motty]

18 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I quite like Enzo's methods and philosophy. It's a bit different to the style of football that properly gets the heart racing but in order to do that you need a mix of the opposition paying you less respect, the right players and you'll concede an element of control of the overall game itself trying to take more risks.

 

That I think is Enzo's fixation. By completely dominating possession, recycling the ball and deliberately add pedestrian football in with passages of quicker passing, all in the name of wearing teams down. He talks repeatedly about the plan being to destroy teams in the final 15-20 minutes, whether that's the entire game plan or part of the advantages of playing the way we do, I'm not so sure. It would be dangerous to limit true attacking dominance to less than a quarter of the game and not foresee occasions where it doesn't happen.

 

I don't think his football is negative though, I don't see the fear or limitation that I saw more and more the longer Rodgers was here. Its just sometimes frustrating that you see a direct passage of play that could be on and that's not our DNA. I at times get restless at that because it's not that there aren't times we can exploit that, if anything our superiority and efficient football can open those scenarios up, but at this stage in our evolution/instruction, we don't execute that fast and direct attack. I'd love to know if that's deliberate, because if it is then that concerns me. I'd hope Enzo wants us to look to exploit that rather than that be our first and foremost way of playing.

 

My only other area I think we could improve on is how we utilise our striker and the support to them. I'll always look at possibilities of getting more than one goalscorer on the pitch at the same time in some games, I don't believe modern football means you can't play two forwards. It makes little sense to me that you'd not want to have your best finishers (invariably strikers) on the pitch but instead look to create a good amount of chances instead for inferior finishers and expect to score frequently. It's interesting Pep has gone to a system with two strikers this year and in the past has and then hasn't. Again, it's the flexibility to know when and when not to change the way you play.

 

Enzo's every right to have an ideology and mantra, maybe doubling down on it and showing no weakness or hesitation on it, but history has proven such rigidity can and will catch up with you. 

 

I'm loving what he's doing though, he's given us our football club back after a diabolical and unacceptable nose dive. Let's hope he can steer us back and not just to make up the numbers temporarily.

 

I think it would help if when the link players receive the ball they are not always facing their own goal.

 

KDH was the only one looking behind himself and then trying to turn when he could.

 It was noticeable after all the groaning at the slow play in the first half, it was much more incisive in the second half.

 

The early substitutions and  more of them as well after the 2 losses where much to late and to few subs.

 

So Maybe the Enzo way is adaptable as he learns more on the job.

 

So it is possible to to be a little more positive in our play. I don't want Spursy play. 

 

It was noticeable there was no "Enzo way" chanting in the first half.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, BKLFox said:

A lot seem to want us to play like Spurs but their gung-ho approach has them 2nd bottom in the form table sitting only above Burnley, who incidentally are the only team Spurs have looked relatively comfortable against.

Yes they beat Liverpool but Liverpool were down to 9 men and it still took a long injury time own goal to nic that game.

They have conceded 8 goals in the last 3 games and only scored 3 it’s not even like the gung-ho approach is leading to goals.

They have Man C next so u’d assume it will be 4 losses on the bounce, I can only imagine the slating our team / manager would be getting if we were in that predicament & pound to a pinch there would be calls for not over committing with every attack I’m sure.

 

My take away of this is that it would seem “football is a results business” only when your losing and on the slide, as that was mentioned a lot last season.

Also worth noting they got booed at the final whistle of the villa game - 

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

I'd also like to see Tyson Fury come out round one punching like mad as they do in the Rocky films.  The thing is, if you do and they weather the storm, you kill yourselves in the process.  

 

I too would love to see football like that, but the reality is unless 2 teams go for it then it's very unlikely to happen. And i can't see it happening that often without some serious consequences. 

 

From what we have read, Enzo also wanted the intensity turned up a notch as well, and most of the 2nd half was much better. All part of getting the defensive / offensive battle right.

What is interesting to note is that we still passed the ball around the back, stood on the ball, did all those 'boring' things we were doing in the first half - that didn't change (other than perhaps how often we did it and where on the pitch we did it) - but there remained periods where nothing seemed to happen - the intensity boost was when we found the gaps and launched the attacks from the slow build ups.  essentially, it wasn't just panicky chaos, it was still the same considered patient formula only when we went for it we really went for it.  and that's, i suppose what we're really talking about, what it is we really want to see.