Tactics Under Maresca

[Number 6]

I think there's a few reasons for the tempo being as it is, particularly first half:

 

 - Low defensive blocks. Hard to break down, particularly early, but easier as opponents tire. There is an argument with this that pushing even more for an early goal would open the game up and help us though.

 - Enzo is playing a 46 game season, and he's making some decisions on that basis. Heavy rotation, less strenuous games, getting the job done. I think this should mean we can push harder in the run in - it is the type of thing we've seen Man City do. 

 - Quite simply, it is working. Where is the payoff in changing it? We've won 14/17, which on a ppg basis would put us at 113 points over the season. It can be nerve-wracking leaving it late, but we've been so good in the final 30 that there is little incentive to change.

 

I have said in other threads that I'd like to see more games where we get the earlyish goal first half and THEN implement the level of control that we've seen at 0-0, if we start to do that then I think we'll become almost untouchable. But as yet, the results are coming in, and ultimately it's about getting out of the division. The defensive foundations are so solid with this style, and I think it's so replicable, that we'll just be by far the most consistent team.

 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

There wasn't a unanimous feeling we would be 10 points ahead of the play offs for sure. I was very much in the camp that we should do well (we should have done well the previous season), but with the dodgy preseason, and thinking Coady and Winks were PL cast offs, i was very concerned. Everything that has been achieved so far has exceeded any expectations I had. Which is why i find a lot of the very negative posts a bit frustrating.

 

I think it could/should be better, and I think we are a few players away from a much better implementation of it. But, the main priority is getting the job done, and so far that is being done admirably. 

Did I say there was? What there was were plenty of people saying 1st or 2nd. So the notion EVERYONE was saying otherwise simply isn't true. There were loads of people massively excited by the new manager (not me, total unknown). 

[SecretPro]

Maresca has known this team for less than 6 months. Taken us from losing our 'best players' and being in an absolute slump to completely changing the face of the club, the staff, the style of play, the ethos, the fortunes and has us 10 points clear at the top. 6 months with changes from top to bottom. People on here are so ****ing entitled it's unreal. Talking about 'how we will look next year in the Prem if we play like this' - it doesn't get more entitled than that. We sound like Everton Fans thinking we have a divine right to PL football, people suddenly expecting us to absolutely walk this league, after everything, and anything less than that isn't good enough. People shouldn't even be talking about next season yet, we have to actually get there first. People are so weird. Leicester fans are so fickle it's unreal. Pathetic really.

[Jobyfox]

5 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Maresca has known this team for less than 6 months. Taken us from losing our 'best players' and being in an absolute slump to completely changing the face of the club, the staff, the style of play, the ethos, the fortunes and has us 10 points clear at the top. 6 months with changes from top to bottom. People on here are so ****ing entitled it's unreal. Talking about 'how we will look next year in the Prem if we play like this' - it doesn't get more entitled than that. We sound like Everton Fans thinking we have a divine right to PL football, people suddenly expecting us to absolutely walk this league, after everything, and anything less than that isn't good enough. People shouldn't even be talking about next season yet, we have to actually get there first. People are so weird. Leicester fans are so fickle it's unreal. Pathetic really.

Well said …

 

We were a Premier League team, but we lost the three quality players that would be coveted at that level. We had a very unbalanced squad with no wingers or width. We had to rebuild the squad and lose a significant amount of the playing staff.

 

We shouldn’t underestimate the task we had to integrate the new players into a team and philosophy under a new manager. That’s a technically difficult thing to do before you even consider the morale of the players with the chosen ones mixing with those with no future or looking for a way out. 
 

The only difference between us and teams like Leeds and Southampton, who arguably have squads as strong as ours, is we made that transition more quickly. Those early points may prove vital at the end of the season. 
 

Would this style and squad be good enough IF we went up? I would say it’s a big definitive “no”. But that’s no stick to beat EM with whilst it’s proving sufficient for the immediate task in hand 

[James_lcfc]

28 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Maresca has known this team for less than 6 months. Taken us from losing our 'best players' and being in an absolute slump to completely changing the face of the club, the staff, the style of play, the ethos, the fortunes and has us 10 points clear at the top. 6 months with changes from top to bottom. People on here are so ****ing entitled it's unreal. Talking about 'how we will look next year in the Prem if we play like this' - it doesn't get more entitled than that. We sound like Everton Fans thinking we have a divine right to PL football, people suddenly expecting us to absolutely walk this league, after everything, and anything less than that isn't good enough. People shouldn't even be talking about next season yet, we have to actually get there first. People are so weird. Leicester fans are so fickle it's unreal. Pathetic really.

Huh?

 

It's a forum designed to discuss the club - Past, present and future.

 

Not sure where the divine right thing is coming from - Why not discuss next year and the possibility of the PL? How we'd do with the current squad, where we need to strengthen, transfers etc etc.

 

Not many interesting things about relegation, but one of them has been getting to see the standard of the Championship up close after quite a bit of time out and comparing it to what we've been used to.

 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

I think there's a few reasons for the tempo being as it is, particularly first half:

 

 - Low defensive blocks. Hard to break down, particularly early, but easier as opponents tire. There is an argument with this that pushing even more for an early goal would open the game up and help us though.

 - Enzo is playing a 46 game season, and he's making some decisions on that basis. Heavy rotation, less strenuous games, getting the job done. I think this should mean we can push harder in the run in - it is the type of thing we've seen Man City do. 

 - Quite simply, it is working. Where is the payoff in changing it? We've won 14/17, which on a ppg basis would put us at 113 points over the season. It can be nerve-wracking leaving it late, but we've been so good in the final 30 that there is little incentive to change.

 

I have said in other threads that I'd like to see more games where we get the earlyish goal first half and THEN implement the level of control that we've seen at 0-0, if we start to do that then I think we'll become almost untouchable. But as yet, the results are coming in, and ultimately it's about getting out of the division. The defensive foundations are so solid with this style, and I think it's so replicable, that we'll just be by far the most consistent team.

 

We're 14-1 in minutes 76-90+ across 17 games which is mental. Only conceded four 2nd half goals. 

 

And we're actually 12-6 in 1st halves too. 

 

4-2 in each segment across 0-15, 16-30 and 31-45+ minutes

[HighPeakFox]

6 minutes ago, James_lcfc said:

Huh?

 

It's a forum designed to discuss the club - Past, present and future.

 

Not sure where the divine right thing is coming from - Why not discuss next year and the possibility of the PL? How we'd do with the current squad, where we need to strengthen, transfers etc etc.

 

Not many interesting things about relegation, but one of them has been getting to see the standard of the Championship up close after quite a bit of time out and comparing it to what we've been used to.

I think he's pointing out that while some people are having sensible, constructive discussions, there are plenty more just finding fault indiscriminately. 

[Jordan]

If some of our own fans are frustrated with City’s style of play then imagine how fed up other teams’s players, coaches, and fans are. I’m happy we’re boring them to death.

[Swalshed]

4 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

Why not discuss next year and the possibility of the PL? How we'd do with the current squad, where we need to strengthen, transfers etc etc.

Agreed there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but would be better to start a new thread I'd have thought. 

 

I believe this thread was started to analyse and debate current tactics Maresca is deploying.

[Lillehamring]

14 hours ago, Babylon said:

Yeah, only talk tactics if it’s positive comments and not negative comments. 

 

If the tactics lead to people feeling bored, it’s a valid opinion. So pehaps the thought police can just ignore those posts if they don’t like it. 

That's not the case at all, you've completely missed the point. 

 

There's plenty of tactical discussion in this thread that has a negative slant - this is not the problem.

 

What is the problem is people just posting "i don't like it", "i'm bored" etc - without even mentioning tactics, there are other threads to declare this disenchantment.

 

This is a thread about tactics - If someone posts "i don't like it because..." and then explains what they don't like from a tactical perspective that's fair enough, but just coming on here to say 'it's rubbish' is not.

[Lillehamring]

8 hours ago, 5waller5 said:

I understood the implication… 

 

It’s wrong on so many levels though. Last year we had a manager that picked the same 11 players relentlessly, made very few substitutions and ran the same players into the ground.

 

His style seemed to be 80% pace all the time because those players were knackered. This season the “tippy tappy” football or probing for openings at a slow pace is then exploited with explosive pace (yes this is where we could improve but it’s the hardest aspect to nail). 
 

It’s not slow or possession based football, it’s reposition the ball and players until a good chance opens up to exploit.

 

Outside of possession we have much better organised triggers to win back too, under Brendan it just seemed to be 1/2 the team run yourself ragged and hope to win it back. Hence the injuries. 

I agree, i didn't like the comparison either.

[Unabomber]

2 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I agree, i didn't like the comparison either.

Mate please learn how to multi quote 

[Lillehamring]

2 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Mate please learn how to multi quote 

to be honest it wasn't worth it, it was just a clarification of another posters comment - it would have just got messy.

[Lillehamring]

6 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I think there's a few reasons for the tempo being as it is, particularly first half:

 

 - Low defensive blocks. Hard to break down, particularly early, but easier as opponents tire. There is an argument with this that pushing even more for an early goal would open the game up and help us though.

 - Enzo is playing a 46 game season, and he's making some decisions on that basis. Heavy rotation, less strenuous games, getting the job done. I think this should mean we can push harder in the run in - it is the type of thing we've seen Man City do. 

 - Quite simply, it is working. Where is the payoff in changing it? We've won 14/17, which on a ppg basis would put us at 113 points over the season. It can be nerve-wracking leaving it late, but we've been so good in the final 30 that there is little incentive to change.

 

I have said in other threads that I'd like to see more games where we get the earlyish goal first half and THEN implement the level of control that we've seen at 0-0, if we start to do that then I think we'll become almost untouchable. But as yet, the results are coming in, and ultimately it's about getting out of the division. The defensive foundations are so solid with this style, and I think it's so replicable, that we'll just be by far the most consistent team.

 

Yeah, this is what i've been trying to say - there's no guarantee upping the tempo early on will generate more chances, let alone goals - and given the potential downside it seems worthless taking the risk.

Just because we can up the tempo doesn't mean we should - especially if it's just to satisfy some whiners who can't appreciate the patient philosophy we've adopted.

 

At bottom: enzo likes the style of play, the players like it, many fans like it - it ain't going to change just because certain fans are bored.

 

I feel like we need an auto response for every time some one complains that the tempo is slow;

Quote

“We are born with this idea, we are going to die with this idea. If some of them are not happy, it’s their problem.”

 

[Unabomber]

Ah man that didn’t work 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

Huh?

 

It's a forum designed to discuss the club - Past, present and future.

 

Not sure where the divine right thing is coming from - Why not discuss next year and the possibility of the PL? How we'd do with the current squad, where we need to strengthen, transfers etc etc.

 

Not many interesting things about relegation, but one of them has been getting to see the standard of the Championship up close after quite a bit of time out and comparing it to what we've been used to.

 

 

I think the problem is that it's hard to discuss the tactics for next year when almost everything about that situation remains unknown - it's really just guess work.  sure there's a time and place for such discussion, but this thread really deserves to remain focussed on Maresca's known tactics, ie what is happening on the pitch.

[Lillehamring]

5 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Ah man that didn’t work 

Learning how to mulitquote? 

[sbfox]

At the risk of going slightly off topic, which club's tactics/style would you rather us be playing? I know it's hard to judge other teams playing us because most play a very low block, but are Leeds that much more 'fun' to watch? Not really. 

[deep blue]

Just now, Unabomber said:

Mate please learn how to multi quote 

Go on, tell us how to do it?

[Lillehamring]

50 minutes ago, sbfox said:

At the risk of going slightly off topic, which club's tactics/style would you rather us be playing? I know it's hard to judge other teams playing us because most play a very low block, but are Leeds that much more 'fun' to watch? Not really. 

Funny thing is, i suspect most of us have no idea how most teams actually play - i watched the second half of the watford norwich game and watford were relentless, nothing like how they played against us.

 

Which also sort of emphasises how hard it is for enzo - he must watch video of teams playing a certain way only for 95% of them to come to the KP and park the bus.

[Unabomber]

4 hours ago, deep blue said:

Go on, tell us how to do it?

You just press the + next to quote for the posts you want to reply to. 

[deep blue]

It will be interesting to see, as we get towards the latter stage of the season, whether this approach from Maresca enables us to last out the season better, physicality-wise, than the teams that have pressed much more.  If so, we might find we have a very profitable run-in.

(Oops - put this comment in the Wednesday thread but it really belongs here)

[StriderHiryu]

22 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I think there's a few reasons for the tempo being as it is, particularly first half:

 

 - Low defensive blocks. Hard to break down, particularly early, but easier as opponents tire. There is an argument with this that pushing even more for an early goal would open the game up and help us though.

 

Look what's happened to Arsenal this season. Since they got so good, everyone plays a low block against them, hence they seem to be a lot more boring to watch than last season. 

 

That said I think we can go through the gears a bit faster. The next 2 months will be interesting to see. There are so many games that all teams will be stretched physically and given our deep squad we might find a lot more spaces and teams being more open. Though I think it will just continue to be a case of "second half FC" as teams park the bus but can't maintain their defensive composure for 90 minutes. 

[StriderHiryu]

 

Peak Brendan-ball on show last night. That's what really boring football looks like!

[Babylon]

18 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

That's not the case at all, you've completely missed the point. 

 

There's plenty of tactical discussion in this thread that has a negative slant - this is not the problem.

 

What is the problem is people just posting "i don't like it", "i'm bored" etc - without even mentioning tactics, there are other threads to declare this disenchantment.

 

This is a thread about tactics - If someone posts "i don't like it because..." and then explains what they don't like from a tactical perspective that's fair enough, but just coming on here to say 'it's rubbish' is not.

Have the very vast majority not said it's because of the slow pace, is that not his tactics? And is the whole point of someone saying they are bored of the football, specifically IN the tactics thread, a criticism of the tactics in an entertainment sense, seeing as that's what the thread is about. 

 

Personally I've reached that stage now, where entertainment and excitement and not just wins are needed to keep me engaged. I fully appreciate what he's done so far, how it wasn't an easy position to take over, despite out wealth of talent. My feelings aren't really down to him, I'd already given up and needed someone special to keep me interested like I used to be. That's not how I've always been, but with added responsibilities in terms of family and a business, if it's not something special I'm better off using my time elsewhere and that's what I've done.

 

If this was a decade ago I'd be happy as Larry I think.