Tactics Under Maresca

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Won't be on Saturday evening!

What happen to your brain cells,when we are….Do you have an alternative switch or trigger…

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, James_lcfc said:

You are obviously 100% correct on the first sentence.

 

The second one though - I’m not convinced. 
 

I think most managers would do very well with a squad that is quite a bit better than say 95% of the league?

It would largely be a case of making sure your team is motivated and well prepared physically…

I agree with you. 
 

There’s just something about this whole situation that I feel uneasy about, even when we were winning game after game, it still didn’t feel right, that to me suggests the quality of the team is getting you by….

 

Theres a lot of unknown about Enzo, but the concerning thing for me is that, he has already suggested he is not going to change his approach, it’s an approach that could cost us, but equally could eventually come good.

 

If you were to take a Farke, for example… I think he would comfortably see us promoted.

 

What concerns me more than anything is there’s a hell of a lot riding on this season, failure to go up will cause some immense problems for the club, with the colossal finances going out of this club, a second season in this league will result in a world of pain, it scares the life out of me personally. 
 

Enzo has a huge couple of weeks coming up, and it could go either way.  

[sbfox]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

I agree with you. 
 

There’s just something about this whole situation that I feel uneasy about, even when we were winning game after game, it still didn’t feel right, that to me suggests the quality of the team is getting you by….

 

Theres a lot of unknown about Enzo, but the concerning thing for me is that, he has already suggested he is not going to change his approach, it’s an approach that could cost us, but equally could eventually come good.

 

If you were to take a Farke, for example… I think he would comfortably see us promoted.

 

What concerns me more than anything is there’s a hell of a lot riding on this season, failure to go up will cause some immense problems for the club, with the colossal finances going out of this club, a second season in this league will result in a world of pain, it scares the life out of me personally. 
 

Enzo has a huge couple of weeks coming up, and it could go either way.  

Remind us how well Farke did in the PL? 

[Pliskin]

Just now, sbfox said:

Remind us how well Farke did in the PL? 

We’re not talking premier league…. We’re talking championship. 
 

We just NEED to get out of this league, 

[sbfox]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

We’re not talking premier league…. We’re talking championship. 
 

We just NEED to get out of this league, 

Well we're top of the league, I think we're doing fine

 

[lgfualol]

Would be good to see Ricardo’s attacking side utilised more, all he seems to do aside from defending is exchange 4 yard passes with Winks at the halfway line. He’s so dangerous at this level in attack, his current role feels a bit of a waste sometimes.

[RowlattsFox]

I don't really see the long term benefit of the style of play. Only certain teams can get the players you'd need to make this style fluid and look good all of the time. Otherwise you are left with slow and ponderous play, we will be pressured all over the place in the Premier League and gift chances for fun. 

 

 

[UniFox21]

1 hour ago, sbfox said:

Ah yes, the Rogers system. 

Rogers didn't invent the system, and nor does everyone who uses it play as he did 

[James_lcfc]

3 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

I don't really see the long term benefit of the style of play. Only certain teams can get the players you'd need to make this style fluid and look good all of the time. Otherwise you are left with slow and ponderous play, we will be pressured all over the place in the Premier League and gift chances for fun. 

 

 

I have a feeling you'll probably be right but;

 

If he can strengthen and get this system right, it can be great to watch. I'd love to see us dancing round teams like Brighton do for example.

 

...and Brighton couldn't beat Sheff Utd at home a couple of weeks ago! 

[goose2010]

2 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Well no that's not true, can think of many games we more than 1 nil up at half time.

 

Sunderland, Swansea twice, Manchester City, Newcastle.

 

And even then I'd say its a crazy comparison as that season really was unique

 

I'd have expected us to have breathing room in a game by now when the reality is we really haven't.

Well it is, we won 14 of our games by 1 the year we won the league so just because it was a 'unique' season and doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean you can just dismiss it. 

 

Why would you just expect us to walk over teams? Most teams see us as their cup final or a free hit. Sitting top is a target on our backs especially that we have just come down to.

 

We aren't going to beat teams every week there is a reason why the record is 106 points even how good Reading were that season they still dropped 32 points. 

 

We have dropped 11 so far so far so still on track to get the record let alone get promoted. The season is a slog and there will be some games where we don't turn up it's how we react that is important. 

[cityfanlee23]

50 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

About three weeks into the season I raised the point that this brand of football is only useful with a plan B. I pointed out that Rodgers’ downfall was a lack of a plan B.

 

I was met with derision from the football professors who hinted at a nebulous ‘process’ and described it as ‘genuinely breathtaking’. Unfortunately, not in possession of a football PhD from the University of Football I had to bide my time.

 

Last night, and the past few games, we can see exactly why I said what I said. We lack any plan B at all and, if teams set up correctly, we waste vast swathes of time not penetrating. We’ve become a predictable team easy to play against and Enzo now needs to earn his seed and produce a different game plan.

 

This would have been good to discuss weeks ago but obviously people’s breath was so taken by the esoteric process that I was viewed as an idiot. Anyone who made the long, cold journey to Hillsborough last night will have seen writ large the problems with our tactics. We’ve not got the players that Man City have to blow teams away and we don’t have the different gears that Man City have.

People have been very caught up in the romance created by such a sudden shift in culture and the building of a “winning mentality”, which we needed and full credit to Enzo for that, he deserves the plaudits for turning the ship around in such a short period of time, but like you it seemed to me that too many people were getting swept up in that and have more often than not completely ignored obvious cracks because of the fact we are top and under the illusion that it will suddenly “click”.

Logically it does make sense that we would get better over time, but there is no evidence of this yet. Rather than looking like it’s “clicking” this seems more and more like a “new manager bounce” but I don’t believe for a moment that that’s all this is, just that I think this new energy and enthusiasm for a new way of playing has contributed a lot to our early success. 
We had exactly the same under Ranieri, Shakespeare, Puel and Rodgers before eventually it caught up with them and the football quickly stopped working and they couldn’t find solutions. 
 

It’s not even that I think Maresca is unable to find solutions, more that he’s unwilling by his own admission, I just hope he’s right that it will all come good in the end. 
 

In a round about way it’s similar to the early days of the Rodgers debate where the credit Rodgers had built with the fans completely plastered over the cracks that were forming on the pitch and blind optimism took control for a good 12 months where it was just expected that we would be fine. Until we weren’t. 
 

Hopefully this is just a blip and we improve the style and pickup form again.

Edited 30 November 2023 by cityfanlee23

[Chelmofox]

49 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Theres a lot of unknown about Enzo, but the concerning thing for me is that, he has already suggested he is not going to change his approach, it’s an approach that could cost us, but equally could eventually come good.

And tinkering the approach game in and game out would likely cost us as well. I'm not excusing yesterday - that was just shit. We are in a period of poor form, and we are all talking about it like we are the only team to ever have that. Leeds drew to 2nd from bottom on Friday, and themselves drew to Sheffield Wednesday and people conveniently forget this when is happens to us. This league throws up these shite results from time to time, especially when you are back to playing 2 games a week. We are in this grind phase of the season, where most teams will find themselves hitting brick walls from time to time,  But i don't think Enzo fixes this by just messing around with his setup and vision. 

 

Teams have definitely found success against us going man to man in midfield, which is why i was surprised Watford played low block on Saturday when it seemed they had the tools to do the same. I don't think all teams will be able to do it, and Shef Wed surprised me yesterday being able to do that and defend pretty well. We have played far worse than these this season, and if their new manager is given time i think he might throw a few surprise results over the next few months.

 

I think we've hit a bit of a wall with some players progression in this system for sure and i think we need to be continuing the aggressive rebuild in the Jan window.  We are missing some flair from an attacking midfield perspective for sure and we have to be thinking of a life without Ndidi, Nacho and bloody Praet, and getting bodies in that that will be hungry for success. As good as Ndidi has been for us, he's a stop gap that has over performed, but there are much better options out there for that role. 

 

 

Edited 30 November 2023 by Chelmofox

[Chelmofox]

45 minutes ago, sbfox said:

Remind us how well Farke did in the PL? 

Farke's team drew to Rotherham last week, and drew to Sheffield Wed. There is no single formula that is going to smash teams every week.

[Les-TA-Jon]

In the first third of the season, us and Ipswich overperformed, whilst Leeds and Southampton underperformed. With expected points vs actual points analyses giving us about +9 points and Ipswich +10, with Leeds on +0.5, and Southampton on +5. 

 

We've since regressed to 'normal' performances, whilst Leeds and Southampton have sorted themselves out. 

 

I think the 9 game winning streak and the games prior to the Hull loss went to everyone's head. There was many on this forum saying that we probably wouldn't lose many more games and then no one in the league was capable of beating us by outplaying us. 

 

I wonder if Leeds and Southampton fans were totally losing their heads in the first part of the season or were they patiently waiting for more football to be played? 

 

It's a slog and there will be twists and turns. It's ultimately a 4 horse race for the top 2, but we're in the best position by virtue of our good start. 

 

But obviously if current form continues we'll fall behind...

 

[dmayne7]

11 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this thread actually being moderated - none of these posts are discussing tactics, all belong in the post-match thread...

Actually, half of those comments were directly related to style of play or comments replying to the those. Not every post has to be some meta analysis of tactics does it

[MancFox24]

Generally hate it when people talk about 'good vibes' at a football club. But that's exactly what we needed after last season. And I just don't think the type of football Enzo plays was ever going to get that connection between the fans and the players again. That's not to say it can't be successful, although I've got my doubts about how well it will work in the PL. Obviously Man City are the best team in the world but I can't say I enjoy watching them alot of the time and I think their fans struggle to connect with it, which is why Guardiola sometimes has a pop at them for being quiet. But they have the quality in the final third to make the system work and we don't have that currently.

 

I would have preferred to see us go with a manager in the style of Klopp than the Guardiola style because I think that would have got the connection back with the fans. But the board has made it's decision about the way they want the club to play. Puel, Rodgers and Enzo all like to play a similar way so at least there's some evidence of the club knowing what direction they want it to go. I just hope we can keep winning games playing that way cus Puel and  Rodgers both found out how quickly fans start to turn when you play this type of football and the results start to dip.

[Mythyaar]

So, 2.2 pts per game average 10 prior ("overperformed") to 1.4 pts average per game last 5 ("underperformed")?

 

Averaging those two out, you get 1.8 pts per game remaining which I'd say was a reasonable expectation, considering the strength and depth of our squad.

 

That would put us on 93 pts - comfortable promotion based on historical data, though not champions. I think we'd all take that at the beginning of the season.  

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, Sir Shep said:

I might be out of order here but to me it just seems that complacency is sneaking in again, everything is fine, we are top so we will get promoted. I think it may be because of what's happened the last couple of seasonsthat I feel that Enzo can't change it up, and think differently, oh, I don't know just get them winning well again! 

I reckon it’s not the players, but many fans,who judge complacency

& believe in the hype that we are the best team in the league.

We are fighting & competing against better teams,than what is being posted has poorer.
many have built incorrectly a platform that we have the best squad, and it’s only a matter of ticking off the games and going through the motion..

No  matter the nonsense written on here about the quality of the league,the demeaning of every opponent & hiding behind the right to bore a negative opinion every week…Football is still excellent quality, and like the PL,and long past history

one has soggy performances,mixed with good memories…

We have never lived through a period,where we have seen pure football,or everybody & every team  playing in a Type of supernatural Barcelona-syndrome.

Football don’t you know,has always been crap,frustrating,boring, brilliant,on the edge of your seat,with decent periods of definite watchable memories.

There is no period of years,where it was just super to watch every week…Its always thrown down the dice between frustrating,acceptable,ecstatic..

We are falsifying footballs journey,in judging the various standards,we have nothing

to compare with,accept in the minds of dreamers.

We hold our heroes up onto a higher pedestal,that no one yet has produced..

The sport is has it it is,we go hoping for decent competition,though some are only happy if it’s rubber stamped with a guaranteed win..

If you find yourself moaning every week,I suggest,you take up arts & crafts,with an end product..…….because sport ain’t your thing..

 

 

[adejo92]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

We’re not talking premier league…. We’re talking championship. 
 

We just NEED to get out of this league, 

I mean, given what I expect if we get promoted, I think I'd rather stay in this league.

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

I mean, given what I expect if we get promoted, I think I'd rather stay in this league.

Seriously?!?!?!?! Assuming we get promoted we have 2 windows, young talent like Fatawu developing, Alves and Braybrooke in the mix, and opportunities to get rid of more dead weight. Its going to be tough no matter what way we do it. People are fixated on Burley, but we should do into into with confidence that we can set some solid foundations to survive.

 

37 minutes ago, Mythyaar said:

So, 2.2 pts per game average 10 prior ("overperformed") to 1.4 pts average per game last 5 ("underperformed")?

 

Averaging those two out, you get 1.8 pts per game remaining which I'd say was a reasonable expectation, considering the strength and depth of our squad.

 

That would put us on 93 pts - comfortable promotion based on historical data, though not champions. I think we'd all take that at the beginning of the season.  

No - we want a plan c as well 

[Les-TA-Jon]

48 minutes ago, Mythyaar said:

So, 2.2 pts per game average 10 prior ("overperformed") to 1.4 pts average per game last 5 ("underperformed")?

 

Averaging those two out, you get 1.8 pts per game remaining which I'd say was a reasonable expectation, considering the strength and depth of our squad.

 

That would put us on 93 pts - comfortable promotion based on historical data, though not champions. I think we'd all take that at the beginning of the season.  

Yes but the wrinkle this year is that Leeds and Southampton both on track on 86-90 points, and ourselves and Ipswich on track for 100+ but with form going the wrong way. 
 

If 2 to 4 of those teams maintain momentum it could be a record points level required for top 2 finish 

 

it’s going to be tight 

[An Away Move]

We need to chill. This is a gruelling league and because we’ve had a record breaking start the last few performances have felt extra disappointing I think. All the games we lost and drew we had the chances to win the games. I feel the problem is our attack. Iheanacho and Vardy are not incisive enough due to, I don’t know what with Nacho and age with Vardy. I think Tom Canon will come good and Alves and Braybrooke will be like two new excellent signings. All will offer better penetration in the final third. 
As for the style of football we need to learn to read the game and appreciate this is different to what we are used to. It is effective and impressive by any metric. We’ve dominated pretty much every match and had chances to win them all. For me it is frankly ridiculous how hysterically negative some fans are getting. Get behind Enzo! He’s delivering. You’d have all taken the position we are now at the beginning of the season. You’d have bit the arm off for it actually. 

Edited 30 November 2023 by An Away Move

[cityfanlee23]

1 minute ago, An Away Move said:

We need to chill. This is a gruelling league and because we’ve had a record breaking start the last few performances have felt extra disappointing I think. All the games we lost and drew we had the chances to win the games. I feel the problem is our attack. Iheanacho and Vardy are not incisive enough due to, I don’t know what with Nacho and age with Vardy. I think Tom Canon will come good and Alves and Braybrooke will be like two new excellent signings. All will offer better penetration in the final third. 
As for the style of football we need to learn to read the game and appreciate this is different to what we are used to. It is effective and impressive by any metric. We’ve dominated pretty much every match and had chances to win them all. For me it is frankly ridiculous how hysterically negative some fans are getting. Get behind Enzo! He’s delivering. You’d have all taken the position we are now at the beginning of the season. You’d have bit the arm for it actually. 

Completely understand the sentiment behind this and it is logical, but the flip side of the coin is that in the majority of games we have dominated and won, we have come perilously close to throwing points away. 
 

We could easily have won the games we’ve lost/drawn and realistically should have been punished/dropped points in many games we’ve won but haven’t due to the opposition not taking their chances when they really should. 
 

So on both of those sides of the coin we are somewhere in the middle, but with the quality we have we shouldn’t be going so late into games on a knife edge. 
 

A lot of us, myself included had memories of the championship from the last time around where we spent a decade stuck in the 2nd division and thinking its one of the most difficult leagues in world football to get out of, statistically it is, but I think we’ve all seen this season just how awful the standard has been this season. The sheer amount of chances our opponents (and us) have wasted this season is quite shambolic at times.  

[Matt]

It’s refreshing to see the vitriolic opinions about possession based football but where we’re they last season?!

 

I was more vitriolic than most last season regarding it, I don’t like it anymore this season and find probably 95% of football matches (in general) boring, however if I’m to continue my interest in football I’ve got to find some kind of compromise, up until last night Enzo’s style has been that compromise, but I’m sorry, last night was as if we’d reappointed Brendan Rodgers.

 

Am I that bothered? Not really, just fed up and empathetic - that’s what hurts the most. I feel very much football is passionless nowadays, on and off the pitch, it’s not exclusive to us, it the same up and down the country.

 

Last night wasn’t a loss but I put it in with the three losses we’ve had I’ve tried putting a positive spin on every one of them, hoping it could focus us, give us a kick up the backside, make us realise what we need to do better, or even find another way of playing, but it seems like we’re not changing, learning and if anything regressing? 
 

We’ve arguably been found out yet the mantra is very much “do plan A better”.

 

Edited 30 November 2023 by Matt

[Richmondfox]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

It’s refreshing to see the vitriolic opinions about possession based football but where we’re they last season?!

 

I was more vitriolic last season regarding it, I don’t like it anymore this season and find probably 95% of football matches (in general) boring, however if I’m to continue my interest in football I’ve got to find some kind of compromise, up until last night Enzo’s style has been that compromise, but I’m sorry, last night was as if we’d reappointed Brendan Rodgers.

 

Am I that bothered? Not really, just fed up and empathetic - that’s what hurts the most. I feel very much football is passionless nowadays, on and off the pitch, it’s not exclusive to us, it the same up and down the country.

 

Last night wasn’t a loss but I put it in with the three losses we’ve had I’ve tried putting a positive spin on every one of them, hoping it could focus us, give us a kick up the backside, make us realise what we need to do better, or even find another way of playing, but it seems like we’re not changing, learning and if anything regressing? 
 

We’ve arguably been found out yet the mantra is very much “do plan A better”.

 

The style of play was summed up last night when we had a throw in at the corner flag, within two passes it was back with Mads.  We then passed it around and lost it in our half.  In contrast Wednesday had one in the corner and went for a long throw in the box.

 

I can’t see any useful skill set from Casedi.  Several times outside the box he would auto back pass instead of attempt to thread the ball to Mavadidi who had gone into the box. 

 

Justin is the most boring player we have,

I can’t stand to see him wave for the ball, ignore Mavadidi and pass back Vestergaard.