Tactics Under Maresca

[foxfan92]

7 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Like QPR, like Rotherham, like Wednesday

 

We have no answer to direct football. 

We found one...

[CosbehFox]

Just now, foxfan92 said:

We found one...

Did we? As per the other games, we still conceded woeful games. The sort of thing other teams take note of for the future 

[cityfanlee23]

Both goals today scored when we just went for it. In the 72nd minute when we scored, from that moment on there was about 4-5 occasions where Fatawu and Mavididi got the ball and Ndidi/Winks made themselves available in strong positions and they opted to pass backwards, commentary claimed that Enzo was seemingly instructing that and applauding them passing it back instead of killing the game off. 

Inevitably WBA stole it back at the end and we looked to be buried, once again we scored when we dropped the system at the end and were forced to go for it. 
 

When we attack we can be incredible, when we follow the system we completely stifle ourselves. 
At the moment it seems like an ON/OFF switch rather than a dial and we need to find a balance between the two and we might actually produce some good football. 
 

For the majority of that match I was actually having to stop myself turning it off to go out into the -1c weather to go and pull out a broken heater fan in the car and replace it with the new one. 
 

Glad we got the result, but only when we went for it. These players would be far more dangerous under a lot of other managers even from this league. Half of me keeps saying Enzo needs time, the other half says he isn’t learning and if he goes tomorrow I’ll be thankful for him turning the ship around but wouldn’t be that sad if he left. 
 

Please fix this Enzo, the system isn’t working to maximize our players or potential, and an 8 isn’t going to solve it. 
 

Edited 2 December 2023 by cityfanlee23

[Mendi]

Picking up good wins.

[Matt]

A beautiful winner, pure counter attacking beauty.

 

Not got a problem with Hermansen, he's a good keeper but I mentioned it in the match thread, Hermansen's short passes out and most keepers for that matter;

 

I'm sorry but they're poor and I don't get it, so the reasoning against a long goal kick is that it's often a 50/50 leading to gifting the opposition possession right?

 

Genuine question, please enlighten me, tell me what the difference and advantage is when Hermansen literally passes it straight to the opposition, in our own half, on the edge of our own box?

 

I'm not even talking route one, let me make that clear but atleast with a long kick you're potentially giving up possession higher up the pitch and can defend it abit more composed, play the percentages a 50/50 rather than a 0/100 when you're gifting it to them with a short pass, and don't give me bollocks that it draws them onto us because it doesn't, not when they have a shot.

 

Enzo's celebrations though 

 

Edited 2 December 2023 by Matt

[kingfox]

On 30/11/2023 at 13:28, kingfox said:

The more I watch us, the more evident it becomes on how crucial KDH is to our side. He is integral to the way we play, and most of the time our best creative moments come through him. If he doesn’t start or he fails to perform, more often than not, we tend to look like a boring laboured team who struggle in the final third. 

Delving deeper into KDH’s creativity statistics, he currently ranks 4th for expected assists. He currently leads the league for most smart passes, while he currently sits 4th for most smart passes per90. While he currently sits joint 5th for most key passes in the league.

 

I don’t think it’s any surprise that our more convincing wins have come when he’s contributed something. 4-1 vs Southampton(Assist), 4-1 vs Blackburn(Goal), 3-0 vs Preston(2 goals), 3-1 vs Swansea(Assist). While of course on the opening day, his goals got us over the line against Coventry. 
 

Personally I think we’re in desperate need for someone similar to him. Ndidi has slowly grown into the 8 role, but I don’t see him being the long term answer, he doesn’t give us what KDH does. Casadei has been extremely disappointing, while Akgun is more of a winger. I don’t think it’s any surprise to see us being linked with Gronbaek, he’d be ideal to go alongside KDH or as a rotation option. 
 

While finally delving into form and results, from Southampton away to QPR away, KDH also managed to hit a hot streak of form, in that period he managed 3 goals & 5 assists. During that similar period between Southampton away and Stoke home, Vardy scored 4 in 6. While between Norwich away and Swansea away, Iheanacho scored 5 in 6. Over the past four games, of course nobody has managed to hit a hot streak of form, which has coincided in losing 2 in 4. Ideally we need at least one of that trio to be contributing on a regular basis, like Leeds are currently seeing with Crysencio Summerville for example and Hull with Jaden Philogene. 

More evidence of this today. 

Every time KDH has either scored or assisted in the league this season, we’ve won. 
 

Fair play to Ndidi for getting an assist too, yet again making the perfect run into the box, which led to him making a perfect cross.

 

The two 8’s continue to be the most crucial part of this side imo, when KDH & Ndidi stand up and deliver, we simply win. 

[foxfan92]

27 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Did we? As per the other games, we still conceded woeful games. The sort of thing other teams take note of for the future 

I was being a bit facetious but your post seemed very reactionary the second we conceded a goal. If you look at the league table we've the best defensive record by a long way in the division. 

 

I don't think our defence is the issue. We've looked a little toothless up front for a number of games and very slow and methodical in the build up.

 

I'm not going to start criticising Enzo just yet though. He's been in the job for less than 4 months. Rome wasn't built in a day. We're top of the league. Given time I'm sure we'll start developing plan B and plan C, but for now we're top of the league and what he's done has largely worked. 

 

Teams often go through patches in a league where they drop off for a bit. Let's hope we recapture a bit of the form we had at the start of the league again soon. Maybe over January, and definitely over the summer we'll need to invest if we want to compete in the Premier League but for now we're doing alright this season.

 

If you support Leicester you have to take the bad with the good. We never have a season where we look good all season (2015/16 being the exception). 

 

I remember people complaining in the 2013/14 season when we lost 2 and drew 1 in consecutive games. There is always a bad patch, but I have faith Enzo will turn it around. 

 

We may have made a number of signings over the summer, but I don't think we've players to match his system quite yet, but results wise I think we'll allow him a little leeway for now...

[HarryDee8]

That is our strength, counter attack football, where we break at pace and go direct! 

 

No other team in this league is good at!

[Chrysalis]

4 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

There's no real substance to this argument that we've been found out - if that were the case then you would expect there to be one solution to beating us - but there hasn't been: leeds, boro and sheffield all played completely differently against us - are you therefore suggesting that each of them had independently worked out three wildly different ways of beating us?  Not so - we simply didn't play well enough.

 

It's fair to say that a lot of teams have adopted a tactic of having a brief press early on before sitting deep and then going for it for the last 10-30 minutes, but so far only sheffield and perhaps boro have actually gained anything from doing that, and even then better game management from us should have kept sheffield out.  But that's an approach we've seen from day 1 - only a few teams have done anything different.  Sheffield didn't come in with some radical tactic they'd worked out to combat our system, they just parked the bus and, unlike earlier in the season, we didn't play well enough to break it down more than once.

 

As for changing the system - i refer you to my original post - you can't try to augment a system that you haven't even mastered.  Running before we can walk - unfortunately that 'blistering start' as you say has ended up causing a problem, for me that seems to be the perception from fans that we are the finished article and should already be expanding the options we have, tactically - the fact is we've simply moved out of the freedom of a new system into the reality of having to play that system every week.

All I can say is we not seeing the same patterns if you didnt notice the similarity in their off the ball play, I also didnt say there is only one way to mitigate our style either.

 

I have the opinion anyone that says you can only play football one way every game for an entire season doesnt understand the modern game, the best teams change their style multiple times in a single match, its a game of chess between managers shuffling their tactics.

Brighton, Man City do it routinely every game, they play hybrid, pass it out the back, they get it to the opponents third with pace, and then start pressuring them from outside their box.  Not sure why people people try to say we playing Pep's system, we not.  Man City only play keep ball when they leading comfortably.

Edited 2 December 2023 by Chrysalis

[The Doctor]

41 minutes ago, Matt said:

A beautiful winner, pure counter attacking beauty.

 

Not got a problem with Hermansen, he's a good keeper but I mentioned it in the match thread, Hermansen's short passes out and most keepers for that matter;

 

I'm sorry but they're poor and I don't get it, 

His pass completion for short passes (5-15 yard length) is 99.7% (285 of 286) and medium (15-30 yard length) is 98.2% (387 of 394). How are they poor?

 

He's pretty damn press resistant and gives us a great base to work from

Edited 2 December 2023 by The Doctor

[CrispinLA in Texas]

We aren't going to get lucky like we did for the winner in every match ...it still a long season ahead. 

West Brom were abit dumb to have their players in our half for a throw in...Enzo needs to change his tactics, particularly his substitutions

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

His pass completion for short passes (5-15 yard length) is 99.7% (285 of 286) and medium (15-30 yard length) is 98.2% (397 of 394). How are they poor?

Atleast 2 times, maybe 3 (maybe more) he passed straight to a West Brom player and they had a free run on us, on our goal.

 

It happens numerous times, most games.

 

I'm surprised those stats are so high, but if that's what they are that's what they are. 

[funkyrobot]

28 minutes ago, kingfox said:

More evidence of this today. 

Every time KDH has either scored or assisted in the league this season, we’ve won. 
 

Fair play to Ndidi for getting an assist too, yet again making the perfect run into the box, which led to him making a perfect cross.

 

The two 8’s continue to be the most crucial part of this side imo, when KDH & Ndidi stand up and deliver, we simply win. 

I agree with this, the number 8’s in Enzo’s system are absolutely key. There’s a big drop off from KDH and Ndidi to Butch Casadei and Akgun (who might be better playing wide right anyway) and that needs to be solved during the Jan window as AFCON will remove Ndidi for weeks. 

[StriderHiryu]

West Brom 1 - 2 Leicester

 

 

A dramatic ending to a well-contested and pretty even game.

 

• West Brom are a high-pressing team in general (Coberan was Bielsa's assistant at Leeds) and played as such today.
  • They very specifically targetted Winks and Ricardo, as all teams do, but those two at times were 2v4, as one of them receiving the ball was clearly the pressing trigger for the Baggies
  • Overall, the two of them dealt with it well, though disappointingly playing through that press didn't lead to chance creation from our end.
  • West Brom would then ease off a bit with their press, but press again once we got past the centre circle.
• The Leicester press was pretty effective, turning the ball over high up the West Brom defence on several occasions.
  • The biggest difference between the teams for me was that West Brom weren't as good as playing out of the press as us, so overall this led to us having the majority of control during the game.
  • That said WBA had their moments. I felt we started the better of the two teams, then they had a good 10-15 minute spell of being in the ascendancy and hitting the post, before we ended the first half very strongly, perhaps even taking the lead with better decision-making from Ihenacho.
• In the second half we controlled the game again but struggled with chance creation. The game-changer was Fatawu, though IMO it was good to have McAteer and Fatawu on at the same time. McAteer might not have the pace, power or trickery as the other wingers, but his overall decision making is really good, and the team functions much better with him in the team.
• Fatawu and Ndidi were combining well, the goal was exactly how this system is supposed to work and the sort you see Man City and Arsenal score, Ndidi goes from central, sprays it out to Fatawu, who plays it into the inside 8 half-space, Ndidi stands up a great first time cross, and the other 8 arrives in the box to head home. Training ground stuff and very nicely done. 3 of our players were in the 6 yard box, and 5 in total attacked their box for the goal.
• After taking the lead, we seemed content to play for 1-0, but that handed the initiative to West Brom. I feel we are too negative when taking the lead, and the last two games have been the first time we've been punished for it.
• We were too cute in defending their goal, with such little time left to play, clearing our lines is important, though the tactical principle from Maresca is to control the game via possession of the ball, so that's why Ricardo tries to control it.
• West Brom were suicidal with their attempts to get a winner. They were definitely on top and it felt like they were going to score... their turn to experience a Deeney Day like moment...

 

That stats suggest a narrow victory was just about the right score, but we both had 9 shots, 3 on target despite having 20% of the ball. Ipswich and Leeds have scored more goals than us, and the way they play will continue to score more. We have a better defence, and generally defence is what wins league titles, but my consistent criticism of Enzo's style is that we don't create enough chances. What I will say is that compared to Rodgers, I do see clear attacking patterns of play from rehearsed moves that show up in almost every game. But so far the execution isn't quite there. But this is a team with easily the best squad in the division, if we are struggling to execute in this league, well if we do get promoted...

 

Overall, there was a lot to like from this performance, but even playing like this, we will drop a lot of points. It just doesn't bully teams enough. The bet will be that the more we play, the better we will get at it, and I suppose the two takeaways from today's match are 1) we won! and 2) the overall performance was more up to the standard we'd expect. Remember that Ipswich went away to this ground and got soundly beaten, so in that respect, this result and performance may seem better than it seems right now.

 

Just to put it out there, the alternative Maresca could try is more of a classic 433, allowing us to overload both flanks. One would think that in JJ and Ricardo we'd have two of the best fullbacks ever seen in this league...

 

Anyway we are top of the league, so Enzo is doing the job at the moment. But I hope to see our chance creation improve. Brighton play a similar style of football to us, and they have some of the best chance creation stats in Europe, so with enough time, it's possible we could be a lot more potent up top.

[Chrysalis]

4 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

West Brom 1 - 2 Leicester

 

 

A dramatic ending to a well-contested and pretty even game.

 

• West Brom are a high-pressing team in general (Coberan was Bielsa's assistant at Leeds) and played as such today.
  • They very specifically targetted Winks and Ricardo, as all teams do, but those two at times were 2v4, as one of them receiving the ball was clearly the pressing trigger for the Baggies
  • Overall, the two of them dealt with it well, though disappointingly playing through that press didn't lead to chance creation from our end.
  • West Brom would then ease off a bit with their press, but press again once we got past the centre circle.
• The Leicester press was pretty effective, turning the ball over high up the West Brom defence on several occasions.
  • The biggest difference between the teams for me was that West Brom weren't as good as playing out of the press as us, so overall this led to us having the majority of control during the game.
  • That said WBA had their moments. I felt we started the better of the two teams, then they had a good 10-15 minute spell of being in the ascendancy and hitting the post, before we ended the first half very strongly, perhaps even taking the lead with better decision-making from Ihenacho.
• In the second half we controlled the game again but struggled with chance creation. The game-changer was Fatawu, though IMO it was good to have McAteer and Fatawu on at the same time. McAteer might not have the pace, power or trickery as the other wingers, but his overall decision making is really good, and the team functions much better with him in the team.
• Fatawu and Ndidi were combining well, the goal was exactly how this system is supposed to work and the sort you see Man City and Arsenal score, Ndidi goes from central, sprays it out to Fatawu, who plays it into the inside 8 half-space, Ndidi stands up a great first time cross, and the other 8 arrives in the box to head home. Training ground stuff and very nicely done. 3 of our players were in the 6 yard box, and 5 in total attacked their box for the goal.
• After taking the lead, we seemed content to play for 1-0, but that handed the initiative to West Brom. I feel we are too negative when taking the lead, and the last two games have been the first time we've been punished for it.
• We were too cute in defending their goal, with such little time left to play, clearing our lines is important, though the tactical principle from Maresca is to control the game via possession of the ball, so that's why Ricardo tries to control it.
• West Brom were suicidal with their attempts to get a winner. They were definitely on top and it felt like they were going to score... their turn to experience a Deeney Day like moment...

 

That stats suggest a narrow victory was just about the right score, but we both had 9 shots, 3 on target despite having 20% of the ball. Ipswich and Leeds have scored more goals than us, and the way they play will continue to score more. We have a better defence, and generally defence is what wins league titles, but my consistent criticism of Enzo's style is that we don't create enough chances. What I will say is that compared to Rodgers, I do see clear attacking patterns of play from rehearsed moves that show up in almost every game. But so far the execution isn't quite there. But this is a team with easily the best squad in the division, if we are struggling to execute in this league, well if we do get promoted...

 

Overall, there was a lot to like from this performance, but even playing like this, we will drop a lot of points. It just doesn't bully teams enough. The bet will be that the more we play, the better we will get at it, and I suppose the two takeaways from today's match are 1) we won! and 2) the overall performance was more up to the standard we'd expect. Remember that Ipswich went away to this ground and got soundly beaten, so in that respect, this result and performance may seem better than it seems right now.

 

Just to put it out there, the alternative Maresca could try is more of a classic 433, allowing us to overload both flanks. One would think that in JJ and Ricardo we'd have two of the best fullbacks ever seen in this league...

 

Anyway we are top of the league, so Enzo is doing the job at the moment. But I hope to see our chance creation improve. Brighton play a similar style of football to us, and they have some of the best chance creation stats in Europe, so with enough time, it's possible we could be a lot more potent up top.

Even though I have moaned a bit the last couple of days, I do agree its still better than the last two Rodgers seasons.

[StriderHiryu]

One more thing. You may notice that in recent weeks I've been a lot more critical. That's because after 19 games, I feel like we've regressed a bit:

 

• Southampton started off horrifically, but Russel Martin has tidied up their defence and got them firing in goals. He has clearly fixed and improved that team after a rough start.
• Leeds are scoring lots of goals and picking up points. They do have the occasional bad game, but having less of them, and are playing an exciting and enthralling style of play.
• Ipswich have been consistent throughout the season, scoring lots of goals against everyone.
• Leicester started off indifferently, then went on a great run where it looked like we had cracked it, and now seem a bit like the start of the season again. We are getting over the line, but the last "statement" victory was probably Southampton or Norwich away. Maybe the WBA game could be considered a statement victory, but not for me given how it ended.

I expected games 1-10 to be rough. Then games 11-20 to be OK. Then from game 21 onwards to really start hitting form. Leeds and Southampton if anything match this prediction, whereas Leicester seem to have been consistent in "winning in second gear" and "picking up points whilst looking unimpressive." At the end of the day results are the most important thing, but it feels like the next bad result is just around the corner, when just a month ago it seemed like promotion was a total formality.

[StriderHiryu]

Just now, Chrysalis said:

Even though I have moaned a bit the last couple of days, I do agree its still better than the last two Rodgers seasons.

The problem is that if your dog pisses on you instead of taking a dump, your clothes still stink!

[Dickov22]

Kdh to Winks 🤝 

The best two midfielders in the division 

[Chrysalis]

6 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

One more thing. You may notice that in recent weeks I've been a lot more critical. That's because after 19 games, I feel like we've regressed a bit:

 

• Southampton started off horrifically, but Russel Martin has tidied up their defence and got them firing in goals. He has clearly fixed and improved that team after a rough start.
• Leeds are scoring lots of goals and picking up points. They do have the occasional bad game, but having less of them, and are playing an exciting and enthralling style of play.
• Ipswich have been consistent throughout the season, scoring lots of goals against everyone.
• Leicester started off indifferently, then went on a great run where it looked like we had cracked it, and now seem a bit like the start of the season again. We are getting over the line, but the last "statement" victory was probably Southampton or Norwich away. Maybe the WBA game could be considered a statement victory, but not for me given how it ended.

I expected games 1-10 to be rough. Then games 11-20 to be OK. Then from game 21 onwards to really start hitting form. Leeds and Southampton if anything match this prediction, whereas Leicester seem to have been consistent in "winning in second gear" and "picking up points whilst looking unimpressive." At the end of the day results are the most important thing, but it feels like the next bad result is just around the corner, when just a month ago it seemed like promotion was a total formality.

Results wise its polar opposite to last season, last season we lost all the tight games, so our points tally was poor compared to the goal difference.  This season we have had a ton of one goal victories, so in effect maximising our points to goals ratio.  The problem now is we are now dropping more points than the start of the season and as you said both Leeds and Southampton have really hit form, I dont think Ipswich are dropping off so we do need to stay ahead of both teams.  Just have to hope Enzo cracks the problems.

[Vacamion]

 

I can't believe there have been so many people in the match thread and post-match, criticising the decision to send on Casadei for Wilf Ndidi .

 

Wilf is coming back from an injury and is being eased back into form. As could be seen today, it's working and he's improving.

 

Needing to try and replace an attacking midfielder, I'm not sure what else Enzo is going to do, there?

 

 

[UniFox21]

JJ was running his channel more than previously, was good to see. 

 

Ndidi and KDH both running their channels well too.

 

Would love to see us trial Faes in the Ricardo role, and let Ricardo use the wing more 

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

I can't believe there have been so many people in the match thread and post-match, criticising the decision to send on Casadei for Wilf Ndidi .

 

Wilf is coming back from an injury and is being eased back into form. As could be seen today, it's working and he's improving.

 

Needing to try and replace an attacking midfielder, I'm not sure what else Enzo is going to do, there?

 

 

You've been in the match thread before right. 

 

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Like QPR, like Rotherham, like Wednesday

 

We have no answer to direct football. 

But 7 points from 9?

 

Not the end of the world.

[Chelmofox]

Burnley win 5-0.  Is everyone calming down a little?

[cityfanlee23]

4 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Burnley win 5-0.  Is everyone calming down a little?

I was very intrigued by this until I saw that it was a 10 man Sheffield United lol. Will be interesting to see if there are any extended results to see how they setup