Tactics Under Maresca

[Leicester_Loyal]

We're abit weird, if we're trying to defend a 1-0 lead until the end you'd think we'd time waste and play the clock down, but we literally do the opposite, we see the GK play fast rapid balls out from the back, but then we come back. We also get up the pitch just play it back, like we're playing for the 1-0.

 

It's like we're stuck between keeping the 1-0 win and going for more goals.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

We're abit weird, if we're trying to defend a 1-0 lead until the end you'd think we'd time waste and play the clock down, but we literally do the opposite, we see the GK play fast rapid balls out from the back, but then we come back. We also get up the pitch just play it back, like we're playing for the 1-0.

 

It's like we're stuck between keeping the 1-0 win and going for more goals.

Because we’re box office pal

[Pita]

We only got plan A.  No back up plan so can’t change 

[Trav Le Bleu]

12 minutes ago, Pita said:

We only got plan A.  No back up plan so can’t change 

Plan A seems to be working.

[JimJams]

The trouble with a plan B is that it's generally seen to be at odds with whatever a managers philosophy is, so at what point should a manager disregard their philosophy to try and get a result? And if the plan B doesn't achieve that result, what exactly is the point in your philosophy if you just abandon it in adversity?

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Burnley win 5-0.  Is everyone calming down a little?

Yep all good, only took until December against a 10 man fellow promotion team.

[Mike Oxlong]

Nice to see such good fitness levels in the team 

 

Just emphasises another of Rodger’s deficits over his last two seasons with us 

[Aleksz]

Been a big contributor to this thread but had to avoid it over the last few days as it’s been embarrassing in here. They’ll certainly make entertaining reading come may. 
 

Good performance today. Got lucky but deserved that luck. Hopefully another 6 points from the next two and we can take it up a gear to leave egg on the faces of some in here.

[Royston.]

Are we having a bad patch or have we been this way all season and its just a matter of scoring late winners or brief moments of quality?

 

Personally I think Maresca is well within his rights to tell all the moaners to fuch off considering where he has us now compared to the shit heap Rodgers left behind.

 

 

 

[blueharmie]

48 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

We're abit weird, if we're trying to defend a 1-0 lead until the end you'd think we'd time waste and play the clock down, but we literally do the opposite, we see the GK play fast rapid balls out from the back, but then we come back. We also get up the pitch just play it back, like we're playing for the 1-0.

 

It's like we're stuck between keeping the 1-0 win and going for more goals.

Least the opposition don't have a clue what's going on if we don't 😄

[Pita]

We been very lucky on quite a few games. 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

One more thing. You may notice that in recent weeks I've been a lot more critical. That's because after 19 games, I feel like we've regressed a bit:

 

• Southampton started off horrifically, but Russel Martin has tidied up their defence and got them firing in goals. He has clearly fixed and improved that team after a rough start.
• Leeds are scoring lots of goals and picking up points. They do have the occasional bad game, but having less of them, and are playing an exciting and enthralling style of play.
• Ipswich have been consistent throughout the season, scoring lots of goals against everyone.
• Leicester started off indifferently, then went on a great run where it looked like we had cracked it, and now seem a bit like the start of the season again. We are getting over the line, but the last "statement" victory was probably Southampton or Norwich away. Maybe the WBA game could be considered a statement victory, but not for me given how it ended.

I expected games 1-10 to be rough. Then games 11-20 to be OK. Then from game 21 onwards to really start hitting form. Leeds and Southampton if anything match this prediction, whereas Leicester seem to have been consistent in "winning in second gear" and "picking up points whilst looking unimpressive." At the end of the day results are the most important thing, but it feels like the next bad result is just around the corner, when just a month ago it seemed like promotion was a total formality.

All seasons have ebbs and flows.

 

Only 1 team in the last 20 years have match our point total after 19 games, Wolves in 08/09.

 

 

[coolhandfox]

16 minutes ago, Pita said:

We been very lucky on quite a few games. 

Leeds and Ipswich both won by the odd goal, both Middlesbrough and Coventry hit the woodwork.

 

Every team has an element of luck.

 

Luck doesn't bring you 46 points from 19 games

Edited 2 December 2023 by coolhandfox

[Lillehamring]

8 hours ago, Gubbins said:

Is it possible for this group of players to 'master' this system (regular 85% possession each match, several hundred completed passes per centre back per game,  winning most games by 2 goals rather than 1?) bearing in mind it's only got another 30 odd games together as a team? If we go up the turnover of players will be huge and they will all have to learn how to master this system all whilst being pressed into oblivion by far far better sides. If we don't go up theyl still be a high player turnover and itl show that marescas all out possesion tactic is horribly flawed anyway.

Exclusively mastering this one way of playing is daft given wel just have to go through the whole process again next season regardless.

I think  they have mastered certain elements of it, but not every element of it - and i suspect in maresca's mind it is always evolving.  But even when you've mastered the technical elements of a system, it's only then that you can start to master the utilization of the system.

 

I'm not one to speculate on what will happen next year but, assuming we go up, i hope that we'll keep a core of the more competent players and then add players that have either played in similar systems or are good at adapting to different systems.

 

And, FWIW, there is no 'one way of playing' - that's the beauty of this system, it can be used and we have used it in multiple different ways.

[Lillehamring]

6 hours ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Please let's play more counterattacking football 

Problem with that is, by definition, we'd have to be under pressure more often than not - which is neither how we would want to play, nor how we actually play.

What we need to do is to get better at counterattacking on the rarer occasions that we have the opportunity to.

[Lillehamring]

6 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Did we? As per the other games, we still conceded woeful games. The sort of thing other teams take note of for the future 

I'm sure if opposing teams use 'hoof the ball into the box and get a scrambled tap in' as useful reference towards playing us, we don't have much to worry about.

Yes it was (another) woeful goal (i assume you meant that rather than 'games') to concede, but those sort of goals are so random, there's no planning behind it just wild hope. But yes, we need to get better at clearing the ball in such situations.

[kyleolly]

Some of the football today was sublime but it’s not consistent enough I think we rarely got out of 2nd gear today again 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

All I can say is we not seeing the same patterns if you didnt notice the similarity in their off the ball play, I also didnt say there is only one way to mitigate our style either.

 

I have the opinion anyone that says you can only play football one way every game for an entire season doesnt understand the modern game, the best teams change their style multiple times in a single match, its a game of chess between managers shuffling their tactics.

Brighton, Man City do it routinely every game, they play hybrid, pass it out the back, they get it to the opponents third with pace, and then start pressuring them from outside their box.  Not sure why people people try to say we playing Pep's system, we not.  Man City only play keep ball when they leading comfortably.

You don't think we do that?

I'd say we're one of the most flexible teams in the league - i think we can be patient or explosive, i think we can be direct or we can be roundabout, i think we can go long and wide, or have our CB carry the ball the length of the pitch.  We can play slow and steady, or we can go all in.

 

As such, this notion that we've been found out seems implausible, because when teams come and try to man mark us, we find a way, when they sit deep, we find a way, when they press hard, we find a way.  The only times we haven't found a way is when we've just played rubbish.

[Paninistickers]

10 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

but those sort of goals are so random, there's no planning behind it just wild hope.

But that's kinda the problem. We can control games totally and end up losing/drawing down to pure 'hope'. It's not good enough just being better than the opposition. You have to beat them too. 

 

Enjoyable as today was, we very nearly threw away more points to an inferior team. 

 

Edit, to illustrate my point absurdly, if I was in the ring v Tyson Fury, it doesn't matter how much better he is than me if he doesn't throw a punch

Edited 2 December 2023 by Paninistickers

[Golden Fox]

Counter-attacking football works as a style because the opposition are caught upfield and there is lots of space behind to attack.

 

But the problem with it is that you give the opposition the ball and chances to attack you. 

 

The Pep/Enzo way tries to keep the ball at the back, stretching the opposition to try and marry the best of both worlds. Limit chances against you, but have spaces to attack.

 

Plenty of comments in the game threads about our winner being anti what Enzo is trying to do but it is exactly the situation our style of play is looking to take advantage of! 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, The Doctor said:

His pass completion for short passes (5-15 yard length) is 99.7% (285 of 286) and medium (15-30 yard length) is 98.2% (387 of 394). How are they poor?

 

He's pretty damn press resistant and gives us a great base to work from

 

5 hours ago, Matt said:

Atleast 2 times, maybe 3 (maybe more) he passed straight to a West Brom player and they had a free run on us, on our goal.

 

It happens numerous times, most games.

 

I'm surprised those stats are so high, but if that's what they are that's what they are. 

That's obviously not true - it's happened a few times, in a few games - as the doctor's stats reveal - between 5-30 yards he's only misplaced 8 passes all season, and three were today.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

I can't believe there have been so many people in the match thread and post-match, criticising the decision to send on Casadei for Wilf Ndidi .

 

Wilf is coming back from an injury and is being eased back into form. As could be seen today, it's working and he's improving.

 

Needing to try and replace an attacking midfielder, I'm not sure what else Enzo is going to do, there?

 

 

it's because these fans have already decided that casadei is shit and that is it. final. period. the end.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

JJ was running his channel more than previously, was good to see. 

 

Ndidi and KDH both running their channels well too.

 

Would love to see us trial Faes in the Ricardo role, and let Ricardo use the wing more 

i thought Justin had his best game today under maresca.  Problem is, i still don't think he's got enough to his game to make a difference often enough.

Also thought Fatawu played much more smartly today, so that's a positive.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Burnley win 5-0.  Is everyone calming down a little?

And forest have now only won once in the last 10 games, 7 points from their last 30.

It's a good day.

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Leeds and Ipswich both won by the odd goal, both Middlesbrough and Coventry hit the woodwork.

 

Every team has an element of luck.

 

Luck doesn't bring you 46 points from 19 games

Let's not forget that we were 'lucky' for the entire 15/16 season