Tactics Under Maresca

[UniFox21]

13 minutes ago, tinpot_fox said:

 

I'm no expert, but..... I thought the tactic was to drag players put of position by playing the ball in and out at the back, with the goalkeeper included in this, but if there are several opposition players marking a couple of Leicester defenders then surely that job has been done. No need then for the goalkeeper to pass short and there should be the space further up the pitch that the tactic was looking to create?

Definitely, that's how it's been described to us, which is why I'm surprised we don't use the longer pass to more. 

 

2 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Like our Man City's often go back especially Foden and Grealish.

 

Madividi has something we just need a little more from him.

 

I'd also say the same about Fatawu.

 

We need more goals and assists from our wingers.

Yeah exactly, more is needed from them. 

Nothing wrong with cutting back in as long as the attack progresses. 

[coolhandfox]

8 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Definitely, that's how it's been described to us, which is why I'm surprised we don't use the longer pass to more. 

 

Yeah exactly, more is needed from them. 

Nothing wrong with cutting back in as long as the attack progresses. 

To be fair to the wide lads the forward haven't help their stats.

 

For example Vardy missing a open goal from Mavididi cross against Watford.

 

 

 

Edited 3 December 2023 by coolhandfox

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, tinpot_fox said:

 

I'm no expert, but..... I thought the tactic was to drag players put of position by playing the ball in and out at the back, with the goalkeeper included in this, but if there are several opposition players marking a couple of Leicester defenders then surely that job has been done. No need then for the goalkeeper to pass short and there should be the space further up the pitch that the tactic was looking to create?

We do see occasions where either mads, vesty or faes pass into space further up the field, but rarely when they are deep with the ball, normally when we've worked the ball forwards, playing between the press.

 

This is the real quality of his system, that there are so many different ways of essentially doing the same thing, or same few things - but all depending on how the opposition react - which is why it's so hard to describe, sometimes even to spot what is happening. 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Like our Man City's often go back especially Foden and Grealish.

 

Madividi has something we just need a little more from him.

 

I'd also say the same about Fatawu.

 

We need more goals and assists from our wingers.

I think it's easy to forget that mavididi has only played with this team and this system for 1500 minutes, fatawu just 846 - it's going to take time for them to adapt, and it isn't just a case of fitting in to a team that is already established, it's fitting into a team that is itself still learnign the system.

 

I'm sure, given, time, we'll see a lot more from them - they've both played at a higher level than this.

[Chrysalis]

22 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

You don't think we do that?

I'd say we're one of the most flexible teams in the league - i think we can be patient or explosive, i think we can be direct or we can be roundabout, i think we can go long and wide, or have our CB carry the ball the length of the pitch.  We can play slow and steady, or we can go all in.

 

As such, this notion that we've been found out seems implausible, because when teams come and try to man mark us, we find a way, when they sit deep, we find a way, when they press hard, we find a way.  The only times we haven't found a way is when we've just played rubbish.

We have done it at times under Enzo, but some games we dont when I feel we needed to.  This is where he has improved over Rodgers (aside also from his better execution of keep ball).

 

But some of us have realised we are the opposite of progression right now, when you can see things are improving then its easier to be patient and see what happens, but things are regressing, is when I get concerned.  For me the performances and flow of our football hasnt been right since after the Stoke game.

 

--

 

On the subject of rubbish performances, it is a thing as an example some have a habit of blaming the players, we know its a big thing on foxes talk to pick out players to point the finger at, for me the buck always stops with the manager, if the team didnt perform, its on the manager, if a player makes mistakes, its the manager making that player do something they not comfortable with or a bad system that caused that player to make the mistake.  Even in Rodgers final days, we had people blaming the players.

Edited 3 December 2023 by Chrysalis

[Lionator]

What are the similarities/differences between how we play and how Ange sets up Spurs? 

Edited 3 December 2023 by Lionator

[Lillehamring]

55 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

We have done it at times under Enzo, but some games we dont when I feel we needed to.  This is where he has improved over Rodgers (aside also from his better execution of keep ball).

 

But some of us have realised we are the opposite of progression right now, when you can see things are improving then its easier to be patient and see what happens, but things are regressing, is when I get concerned.  For me the performances and flow of our football hasnt been right since after the Stoke game.

 

--

 

On the subject of rubbish performances, it is a thing as an example some have a habit of blaming the players, we know its a big thing on foxes talk to pick out players to point the finger at, for me the buck always stops with the manager, if the team didnt perform, its on the manager, if a player makes mistakes, its the manager making that player do something they not comfortable with or a bad system that caused that player to make the mistake.  Even in Rodgers final days, we had people blaming the players.

I think it's impossible to really talk about progression/regression so early into the process.  Learning curves are seldom the smooth arc we're inclined to imagine them as - the way i imagine things have been are like this: in the brief pre-season maresca taught them the fundamentals of his system and for the first series of games we had a very simple plan and stuck to it, with the quality we have we took that simple plan and made it work - getting better each game as it became more natural.  gradually he has expanded the system and given them much more to think about, as such we dropped back to that earlier way of playing, whilst we started to acclimate the new ideas - that it combined with a run of tougher games probably hasn't helped.  watford and west brom, even at times against sheffield, we've seen them settle back down into the rhythm again.

 

I think, from an individual player point of view, you can also add in the possibility that we had something of a combined new manager/players/system bounce - as we know this is always hard to sustain and now it's everyday and players can't always get the performance they have previously - and so we have seen some dips in individual quality, bad decision making and poor execution for example.  naturally there are confidence bounces that teams get - hopefully we'll  hit one of these as a result of the great win at west brom.

[filbertway]

37 minutes ago, Lionator said:

What are the similarities/differences between how we play and how Ange sets up Spurs? 

Ange commits bodies forwards and they look to transition the ball up the pitch very quickly when they win it back.

 

I think it's chalk and cheese to us, we very obviously get the ball back to our defenders, get into our shape and then start running through pre programmed routines.

 

[sm1]

43 minutes ago, Lionator said:

What are the similarities/differences between how we play and how Ange sets up Spurs? 

We both press from the front but that's about it. Ange plays fast fearless football, whereas as we play slow cautious football.

[justfoxes]

Just wondering what and who is in Enzo thoughts for the January window who play his style and who he wants to bring in to do the job for us really hope Top give Enzo a few ££££ to improve our squad ? 
 

[Master_Tactician]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

What are the similarities/differences between how we play and how Ange sets up Spurs? 

Very few IMO

 

For one, rather than have one fullback go to make a back 3 and one go into the DM area, the spurs wingbacks will go much higher up the field in build up. Sometimes right to the edge of the box.

 

Secondly when playing maddison has license to roam all over the place. He will come very deep at times, or drift wide left. Leicester have a much more structured  pattern of play where the two "8s" will go into spaces between the centre of the pitch and the wide players. Usually Dewsbury Hall and Ndidi.

 

Thirdly spurs are far more vertical than leicester. Less square passes, forward play with more urgency and more inclined to use a counter attack than leicester.

 

Comparisons to man city with leicester are lazy too. Man City play with a genuine striker who does not get involved in the buildup. Often leicester will use a striker to come deep to get involved in the buildup.

 

Man city also use a centreback to go into midfield rather than a full back so their structure is different.

 

In many ways leicesters play more closely represents arsenal in positional play and style. 

 

Wide players who pick the ball up wide up want to come inside, box midfield created by a full back and striker wanting to come deep rather than be out and out

 

[Happy Fox]

 

15 hours ago, justfoxes said:

Just wondering what and who is in Enzo thoughts for the January window who play his style and who he wants to bring in to do the job for us really hope Top give Enzo a few ££££ to improve our squad ? 
 

 

Don't think we will have a transfer kitty for January 2024, independent of player sales, once the likes of Souttar / Daka leave could see then an incoming or two.

[StriderHiryu]

 

Compilation of nice moves within the Enzo system from the WBA match.

 

Still think we need to use this build up to make more high quality chances, but hoping it happens in the next few months.

[Les-TA-Jon]

56 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Compilation of nice moves within the Enzo system from the WBA match.

 

Still think we need to use this build up to make more high quality chances, but hoping it happens in the next few months.

Notice how a lot of moves start from those 'braindead and risky' linebreaker passes from Hermansen/Vestergaard into Winks/Ricardo/Iheanacho...

Edited 4 December 2023 by Les-TA-Jon

[FoxinNotts]

I thought Vestergaard and Faes had great games. With Souttar and Coady waiting in the wings, we really are blessed, at this level.

Never thought I'd praise Vestergaard, but he really has proven me completely wrong.

He seems perfect in Enzo's system, but... only at this level. No way we could play Vestergaard in the Premier League, Enzo ball or no Enzo ball, IMO!

If we go up, it'll be interesting to see what we do with Janick. Whether he re-signs, and whether or not Enzo sees it the same as me, or he relies on him to repeat the trick at the higher level, with faster, better pressing teams.

[Master_Tactician]

7 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Notice how a lot of moves start from those 'braindead and risky' linebreaker passes from Hermansen/Vestergaard into Winks/Ricardo/Iheanacho...

I dont think theres anything inherently wrong with building from the back and possession football. Far from it.

 

What is highlighted in those clips though is to do it well and be effective you still need to pass FORWARDS.

 

If the keeper plays a short pass to a centre back, to play out effectively those in front of him have got to make angles to play forwards and it needs to go forwards STRAIGHT AWAY.

 

The whole problem with playing from the back at times is if a defender has it and goes square.... the next player has less options. So he goes square. Next player has even fewer options and by this point youre just inviting the other team to keep pressing to recover the ball right next to YOUR goal.

 

Also, dont be afraid of a direct line breaker. EDERSON does it all the time. So does Alison. If the balls on, play it. Get it forward with quality early.

 

Thats not hoofing, its pragmatism.

 

The current Leicester team imo doesnt have the right balance between scripted play and direct play (yet) but the examples in the clip are the style we want being implemented correctly

[Les-TA-Jon]

3 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

I thought Vestergaard and Faes had great games. With Souttar and Coady waiting in the wings, we really are blessed, at this level.

Never thought I'd praise Vestergaard, but he really has proven me completely wrong.

He seems perfect in Enzo's system, but... only at this level. No way we could play Vestergaard in the Premier League, Enzo ball or no Enzo ball, IMO!

If we go up, it'll be interesting to see what we do with Janick. Whether he re-signs, and whether or not Enzo sees it the same as me, or he relies on him to repeat the trick at the higher level, with faster, better pressing teams.

Vestergaard has been great this season, and whilst his skill set is important for our system, it's also our system + our relation to the rest of the division that makes him look so good. He rarely has to actually defend, because we're so careful to reduce the number of transitions we concede. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 minute ago, Master_Tactician said:

I dont think theres anything inherently wrong with building from the back and possession football. Far from it.

 

What is highlighted in those clips though is to do it well and be effective you still need to pass FORWARDS.

 

If the keeper plays a short pass to a centre back, to play out effectively those in front of him have got to make angles to play forwards and it needs to go forwards STRAIGHT AWAY.

 

The whole problem with playing from the back at times is if a defender has it and goes square.... the next player has less options. So he goes square. Next player has even fewer options and by this point youre just inviting the other team to keep pressing to recover the ball right next to YOUR goal.

 

Also, dont be afraid of a direct line breaker. EDERSON does it all the time. So does Alison. If the balls on, play it. Get it forward with quality early.

 

Thats not hoofing, its pragmatism.

 

The current Leicester team imo doesnt have the right balance between scripted play and direct play (yet) but the examples in the clip are the style we want being implemented correctly

Yes. Note that my comment was complete sarcasm at all the idiots here who see Hermansen make a few risky passes into midfield a few times, and think they whole system is asking for trouble and not worth it (despite it being foundational to how we play and yet to actually directly lead to a goal conceded...)

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Notice how a lot of moves start from those 'braindead and risky' linebreaker passes from Hermansen/Vestergaard into Winks/Ricardo/Iheanacho...

To be fair, I haven't seen many people call our passing style any of those things in any of our games. It's pretty clear to all how effective they can be. The thing is that is a highlights video, so it looks great in a condensed form, but it's not like that's how we play for the entirety of the 90 minutes.

 

If you look at Saturday's match, we had 3 shots on target and one of them was the goal right at the end after a suicidal attack from WBA. So my issue isn't with the patterns of play as this entire thread is dedicated to it! My issue is that we aren't creating enough chances through this style of play yet.

 

 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Master_Tactician said:

I dont think theres anything inherently wrong with building from the back and possession football. Far from it.

 

What is highlighted in those clips though is to do it well and be effective you still need to pass FORWARDS.

 

If the keeper plays a short pass to a centre back, to play out effectively those in front of him have got to make angles to play forwards and it needs to go forwards STRAIGHT AWAY.

 

The whole problem with playing from the back at times is if a defender has it and goes square.... the next player has less options. So he goes square. Next player has even fewer options and by this point youre just inviting the other team to keep pressing to recover the ball right next to YOUR goal.

 

Also, dont be afraid of a direct line breaker. EDERSON does it all the time. So does Alison. If the balls on, play it. Get it forward with quality early.

 

Thats not hoofing, its pragmatism.

 

The current Leicester team imo doesnt have the right balance between scripted play and direct play (yet) but the examples in the clip are the style we want being implemented correctly

If you only pass forwards then you limit the space to get players free between the lines because you’re squeezing the players into a smaller area 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Compilation of nice moves within the Enzo system from the WBA match.

 

Still think we need to use this build up to make more high quality chances, but hoping it happens in the next few months.

...Mavididi, those two situations where the defender comes across and puts in a block!!!

  Right there is a great opportunity to shape to feign to shoot and chop back to roll the ball to someone open or steer the ball into the far post. He is nearly 26 and he does not have the imagination to be inventive in these situations. 

  This has got to be where any of the coaches have to get involved with  developing players, it will not take too much time or effort to sit him down and show him other options.

  He has been at this level for sometime, needs to be challenged to improve his game, but our coaches are just not astute enough to take away his poor execution around the box.

  I really have no idea what they view coaching to be.

 

 

 

[GingerrrFox]

1 hour ago, Master_Tactician said:

I dont think theres anything inherently wrong with building from the back and possession football. Far from it.

 

What is highlighted in those clips though is to do it well and be effective you still need to pass FORWARDS.

 

If the keeper plays a short pass to a centre back, to play out effectively those in front of him have got to make angles to play forwards and it needs to go forwards STRAIGHT AWAY.

 

The whole problem with playing from the back at times is if a defender has it and goes square.... the next player has less options. So he goes square. Next player has even fewer options and by this point youre just inviting the other team to keep pressing to recover the ball right next to YOUR goal.

 

Also, dont be afraid of a direct line breaker. EDERSON does it all the time. So does Alison. If the balls on, play it. Get it forward with quality early.

 

Thats not hoofing, its pragmatism.

 

The current Leicester team imo doesnt have the right balance between scripted play and direct play (yet) but the examples in the clip are the style we want being implemented correctly

It’s not rugby, the ball doesn’t need to and shouldn’t always go forwards “straight away”. Playing from the back effectively is done to invite the press and to manipulate the opposition, to then work the ball into areas of space that have been left behind. 

[Dan LCFC]

There are pluses to the system, I think there's a few wide of the mark comments about our general defending. We have gotten away with some but I think in general we tilt things in our favour because we're always ready to recover from errors playing out. With the exception of Blackburn & Sheff Weds, I don't remember us conceding a massive chance from playing out.

 

My issue is less about that and more that we seem happier to take risks in our own half than the oppositions. My biggest gripe with playing this way, and was something I always feared would happen is that we would become overly risk averse going forward. Almost Puel-esque. We've had numerous instances in recent games where we've actually broken going forward and not even managed to enter their box. We are good enough to take these risks going forward. We should back ourselves to be able to out-shoot nearly anybody in this league. Is Fatawu having one admittedly dreadful long shot at 0-1 up really that big an issue? We should back ourselves to be able to take some of these teams apart.

[Lionator]

One thing I’m also confused by, the system has struggled against the worst teams in the league. It essentially failed v Huddersfield, Rotherham, QPR & Wednesday, whereas it’s looked most effective against those 12-20th type teams (Stoke, Watford, Blackburn), can anyone think of why? 

[cityfanlee23]

29 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

It’s not rugby, the ball doesn’t need to and shouldn’t always go forwards “straight away”. Playing from the back effectively is done to invite the press and to manipulate the opposition, to then work the ball into areas of space that have been left behind. 

Think the balance just needs to be slightly shifted towards taking more risks and being more adventurous. 
 

Our best passer is obviously winks, yet last time I checked which was before the last game his pass record was something like 20% forwards passes and 80% backward/sideways. 
 

the problem seems to be we invite the press and if it doesn’t come we don’t really know what else to do, and if it does come we often panic and give chances away, but I’d rather us just press the ball forward at times and be more aggressive when we lose possession.