Tactics Under Maresca

[Dawko]

More & more fans will start to lose interest in this boring style of play. There'll be more & more empty seats at the KP because people will find more interesting things to do.

Losing possession at the back while faffing about with the ball is a lot more dangerous than losing possession in the opponents half after the goalie has punted the ball forwards.

[coolhandfox]

23 minutes ago, Dawko said:

More & more fans will start to lose interest in this boring style of play. There'll be more & more empty seats at the KP because people will find more interesting things to do.

Losing possession at the back while faffing about with the ball is a lot more dangerous than losing possession in the opponents half after the goalie has punted the ball forwards.

Didn't know Sean Dyche was a member.......

 

You do realise we have the best defence in the league? 

Edited 8 December 2023 by coolhandfox

[shen]

18 minutes ago, Dawko said:

More & more fans will start to lose interest in this boring style of play. There'll be more & more empty seats at the KP because people will find more interesting things to do.

Losing possession at the back while faffing about with the ball is a lot more dangerous than losing possession in the opponents half after the goalie has punted the ball forwards.

Dear me, we need to alert all football coaches! That is quite some insight. I imagine teams would stop playing out from the back if they realised this 

[James_lcfc]

10 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Didn't know Sean Dyche was a member.......

The same Sean Dyche who is sitting in 10th in the PL with a dogshit squad?

 

(Yes I realise they aren’t 10th, but you know what I mean!)

[shen]

14 hours ago, Guppys Love Child said:

This is unfair (just quoting your phrase)..  it was picked up by the commentary team as happening.

 

Genuine question, could I ask, are you season ticket holder or TV watcher.  I go and get a cold bum and see it the same as Richmondfox. 

 

We are negative, we do pass back far to much, ( and sideways) as if pre -programmed when going forward to not take a chance and loose the ball in favour of possession, (yes, yes I know, I know It's... The... System...  Well,  it's boring and it stinks)  and to me our team looks like Enzoball is holding them back for the sake of control when the wingers needed to push on and well...be wingers 

 

Please don't quote stats or ball carrying figures to me, I have no interest in them, and to be honest figures can be presented to represent anything the presenter wants( I'm not implying you did this on a previous post but your internet source did ) I go and watch the game and if I see the vast majority from my seat are back and forward passes and more importantly little to no shots at goal then that's what's happened, not what an algorithm has popped into numbers trying to disprove what my eyes witnessed (and a slowly growing number of others posted have said similar to my views) 

You are of course entitled to your opinion and I completely understand if some people are not entertained by the style of football.

 

It does irk a bit however given out recent plight under Rodgers that Maresca is already being asked (after just 4 months of the season gone!) to provide great entertainment value, when a lot were fearful we wouldn't even be making a serious push for promotion.

 

Surely it is far, far more important in the short term to establish a rapport and trust with the players, revitalise the squad, put a solid tactical foundation in place and get results (and promotion) before we should even consider how entertaining it is.

I would like to point out that we have also seen some exquisite moves and even goals already, which we really could not have expected after such a short period of time. So it's not like it's been uneventful or there hasn't been some promise shown.

 

I know this will not make it more entertaining for you and the critics of the style, but I would encourage to maybe think a bit about the bigger picture here. It feels quite whiny and entitled to have a go at the aesthetics at this point.

 

[Golden Fox]

56 minutes ago, Dawko said:

More & more fans will start to lose interest in this boring style of play. There'll be more & more empty seats at the KP because people will find more interesting things to do.

Losing possession at the back while faffing about with the ball is a lot more dangerous than losing possession in the opponents half after the goalie has punted the ball forwards.

What nonsense - people want to see their teams win. Its either very hard or very expensive to get tickets at the moment - and that is not going to change while we are top of the league!!!

 

Frankly, I look round at home games at rows of middle aged consumers with their thermos flasks and bored expressions who don't contribute at all to the atmosphere and sit there expecting to be entertained like its the cinema and wonder where it all went wrong - So I'm all in for Enzo ball and would be quite glad if they found more interesting things to do and let more fans have a chance to get involved.

[davieG]

13 hours ago, Guppys Love Child said:

Good reply post..👍

 

(1st bold) and my turn to disagree a bit, only a smidge 😁 my take on it is that the number of matches where we play pass/control football spans further back than just the last match, but as I said that's just my take, and I agree they most probably have been given free rain as we have witnessed it on occasions, so here's a question to the forum, if Enzo had targeted players 'to take the man on' why do we see such instances of this so sparingly, we are hardly creating hatfull of chances from our wing play, cutbacks into the box have hardly been in abundance, Is it the player not being capable or his playing instructions to keep control of the ball with the team, by passing instead of 'marauding' so to speak.

 

(2nd bold) I agree he's not unhappy when they do this. Which circles us back to 1st bold 

Maybe because the 8's are doing there job properly, Ndidi made a big difference to Fatawu's play and KDH has been told to get in the box more and provide more assists. I presume working more with Vardy, the other 8 and the 2 wingers.

[Guppys Love Child]

28 minutes ago, shen said:

You are of course entitled to your opinion and I completely understand if some people are not entertained by the style of football.

 

It does irk a bit however given out recent plight under Rodgers that Maresca is already being asked (after just 4 months of the season gone!) to provide great entertainment value, when a lot were fearful we wouldn't even be making a serious push for promotion.

 

Surely it is far, far more important in the short term to establish a rapport and trust with the players, revitalise the squad, put a solid tactical foundation in place and get results (and promotion) before we should even consider how entertaining it is.

I would like to point out that we have also seen some exquisite moves and even goals already, which we really could not have expected after such a short period of time. So it's not like it's been uneventful or there hasn't been some promise shown.

 

I know this will not make it more entertaining for you and the critics of the style, but I would encourage to maybe think a bit about the bigger picture here. It feels quite whiny and entitled to have a go at the aesthetics at this point.

 

I did say in another post that I appreciated the job Enzo has done so far in such a short period of time and he has my backing 100%, don't get me wrong I like winning and being top of the tree.

Picking up the mess left by the “clapping dwarf“ and turing it around and also appreciated - but to brand me as whiny and entitled just because I'm voicing my opinion on whether I find us entertaining to watch is a bit unfair.

We are boring to watch at times.

But I'm also not the only poster on this forum to express the same view.  Are those posters also Whiny and Entitled?

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, James_lcfc said:

The same Sean Dyche who is sitting in 10th in the PL with a dogshit squad?

 

(Yes I realise they aren’t 10th, but you know what I mean!)

I'd say that 10th-13th is about par for that squad, there are a lot of dogshit squads in the bottom half.

 

It a limited squad but suits he's method. 

 

My comment was tongue in cheek regarding his style of play rather than his ability to get a tune out of a team. 

 

 

[shen]

30 minutes ago, Guppys Love Child said:

I did say in another post that I appreciated the job Enzo has done so far in such a short period of time and he has my backing 100%, don't get me wrong I like winning and being top of the tree.

Picking up the mess left by the “clapping dwarf“ and turing it around and also appreciated - but to brand me as whiny and entitled just because I'm voicing my opinion on whether I find us entertaining to watch is a bit unfair.

We are boring to watch at times.

But I'm also not the only poster on this forum to express the same view.  Are those posters also Whiny and Entitled?

I said it feels entitled and whiny, yes. Nothing personal towards you or others expressing this view.

I can fully accept that the aesthetics of the football on display is a subjective matter.

Within the context I described, it seems to be nitpicking when this is really not what the team or new manager needs. 

[Blarmy]

I couldn’t care unless as long as we are winning. I do start wincing a bit when we only just win playing this way, however. Or lose, obviously.

 

Happy to control the play as we try and do when it’s working, but I’d like to see us change things quickly when it’s not working, and just go hell for leather. 

[Fish]

6 hours ago, Dawko said:

More & more fans will start to lose interest in this boring style of play. There'll be more & more empty seats at the KP because people will find more interesting things to do.

Losing possession at the back while faffing about with the ball is a lot more dangerous than losing possession in the opponents half after the goalie has punted the ball forwards.

One half of each style . Don’t tell opponents which one first , cunning I know . See which style has best results. Thank me later ……..I’ll get me coat……..

[Dan LCFC]

On 07/12/2023 at 10:56, coolhandfox said:

People keep blaming the system but compare Vardy and Nacho to the top 4 goals scorers in the division.

 

All 4 are outperforming their xG, by more than 2.

 

Vardy is just ahead and Nacho is just behind, combined they are bang on their xG

 

They have both been bang average. 

 

You're sort of proving the point. Their xg is very low.

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, Dawko said:

More & more fans will start to lose interest in this boring style of play. There'll be more & more empty seats at the KP because people will find more interesting things to do.

Losing possession at the back while faffing about with the ball is a lot more dangerous than losing possession in the opponents half after the goalie has punted the ball forwards.

And yet last season's turgid shite didn't seem to put people off...

Fans will keep going as long as we are winning - regardless of the style of football.

 

This losing possession at the back that you also speak of - it's a myth, we've conceded a couple of goals yes, but otherwise, we barely misplace a pass - hermansen's short and medium passing is 99.3%  and 98.1%   -that's  706 passes attempted, 696 passes completed - 10 misplaced passes all season, 1 every other game.  

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

The same Sean Dyche who is sitting in 10th in the PL with a dogshit squad?

 

(Yes I realise they aren’t 10th, but you know what I mean!)

The same Dyche whose team have conceded 20 goals from 15 games---

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, Blarmy said:

I couldn’t care unless as long as we are winning. I do start wincing a bit when we only just win playing this way, however. Or lose, obviously.

 

Happy to control the play as we try and do when it’s working, but I’d like to see us change things quickly when it’s not working, and just go hell for leather. 

I think the vast majority of games where we are losing or drawing he has either encouraged a much  higher press and/or made substitutions that have brought goals.  There are more games where we've adjusted and got a break through than there are games where the system has rewarded us with early success.

 

A question for those people talking about his having one idea or being stubborn or lacking a plan B - do you really think we've won all these games late just because the opponents are tired - no, it's because he's adjusted the way we play.

[DJAV]

From afar it looks like you guys are smashing it. See you in the prem soon 🤞

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

You're sort of proving the point. Their xg is very low.

But the point is that this doesn't mean there is a problem with the system, it just means that unlike these other teams we're not so reliant on our strikers to score.  Those figures show that vardy and nacho are performing as well as the other strikers (relative to their xg) but just not producing as much, but we have, as a team, similar or better xG.   those top 3 for xG are also responsible for 44, 39 & 34% of their teams' goals, vardy has contributed only 17% of our goals, nacho 15 -  and yet we are the 2nd highest scorers in the league.

 

Personally i don't rate vards and nacho in this system, but not for a lack of goals, but just through their lack of quality in the build up.

[blaaklint]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

You're sort of proving the point. Their xg is very low.

Actually it shows 0.54xG p90 for Vardy and 0.62 for Nacho. The only player above either is Szmodics, who's at 0.6. If we played one of them exclusively instead of splitting minutes half n half, its quite possible we could have the top scorer in the league.

[coolhandfox]

9 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

You're sort of proving the point. Their xg is very low.

The system isn't the problem, the top 4 goal scorer in the division are all out performing their xG by 2 to 3 goals.

 

Vardy is par and Nacho underachieving on the chance they are presented with.

 

Armstrong has played similar minutes to their combined total has a lower xG (8.8) but has scored 12 goals compare to Vardy and Naco 11 for an xg (11). 

 

If Armstrong had the same amount of chances Vardy and Nacho had and keep the same conversation rate he would have 14-15 goals.

 

Vardy and Nacho have been bang average in front of goal others have been more clinical.

 

Edited 8 December 2023 by coolhandfox

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

Vardy and Nacho have been bang average in front of goal. 

 

I think this sums it up perfectly.

I can name a few chances they both should score from the last few games, chances players of their skill and quality should be tucking away easily.

 

It's why Cannons exclusion makes no sense to me

Edited 8 December 2023 by UniFox21

[Lillehamring]

23 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

The system isn't the problem, the top 4 goal scorer in the division are all out performing their xG by 2 to 3 goals.

 

Vardy is par and Nacho underachieving on the chance they are presented with.

 

Armstrong has played similar minutes to their combined total has had less chances ( xG 8.8) but has scored 12 goals compare to Vardy and Naco 11 who have been proved with more chances (xG 11).

 

If Armstrong had the same amount of chances Vardy and Nacho had and keep the same conversation rate he would have 14-15 goals.

 

Vardy and Nacho have been bang average in front of goal. 

 

Please be careful when referencing xG and talking about the volume of chances: it is about probability not quantity - a player can take a penalty and have an xG of 0.76 or he can take 7 shots with a ten percent chance of scoring each and have an xG of 0.7

 

Armstrong has had 54 shots (4.5 shots per goal), nacho and vardy have had 49 (4.45 shots per goal) - actually almost identical conversion rate.

Szmodics has a goal every 4.85 shots

Clarke is 5.6

[coolhandfox]

27 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Please be careful when referencing xG and talking about the volume of chances: it is about probability not quantity - a player can take a penalty and have an xG of 0.76 or he can take 7 shots with a ten percent chance of scoring each and have an xG of 0.7

 

Armstrong has had 54 shots (4.5 shots per goal), nacho and vardy have had 49 (4.45 shots per goal) - actually almost identical conversion rate.

Szmodics has a goal every 4.85 shots

Clarke is 5.6

 

On 06/12/2023 at 17:50, coolhandfox said:

Total XG for a season in isolation isn't a great indication of chance creation. 

 

Team A can have 20 shots at 0.1 xG and end with a total xG of 2

Team B can have 2 shots at 0.75 xG and end with a total xG of 1.5

 

So Team A has a better xG for their game, but Team B actually created the 2 better chances.

 

Yes, I know.

 

 

 

Edited 8 December 2023 by coolhandfox

[Lillehamring]

34 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

 

Yes, I know.

 

 

 

Then i've no idea why you should have made that comment and got all your stats wrong?

[coolhandfox]

17 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Then i've no idea why you should have made that comment and got all your stats wrong?

Simply a wording issue whilst rushing around, updated, sorry dad...

 

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

The system isn't the problem, the top 4 goal scorer in the division are all out performing their xG by 2 to 3 goals.

 

Vardy is par and Nacho underachieving on the chance they are presented with.

 

Armstrong has played similar minutes to their combined total has a lower xG (8.8) but has scored 12 goals compare to Vardy and Naco 11 for an xg (11). 

 

If Armstrong had the same amount of chances Vardy and Nacho had and keep the same conversation rate he would have 14-15 goals.

 

Vardy and Nacho have been bang average in front of goal others have been more clinical.

 

 

 

Edited 8 December 2023 by coolhandfox