Tactics Under Maresca

[UniFox21]

Noticed we almost swap which winger takes a lead role.

 

Really fascinating to watch the development in play depending on the side. Haven't seen us counter that quickly in a while. We'd turn over the ball and instantly we have 4 on the counter 

[lcfcsnow]

Enzo really dislikes the counter attack, well I enjoyed it.

[Chrysalis]

10 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Enzo really dislikes the counter attack, well I enjoyed it.

Did he say that?

[funkyrobot]

18 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Enzo really dislikes the counter attack, well I enjoyed it.

I think he meant he dislikes playing counter attack football rather than disliking a counter attack when we have to do it. It’s clearly an approach very well drilled in the team but he’d rather create chances through retaining possession! 

[Chrysalis]

I didnt stay tuned in as the darts was put on by sky, I guess because I was watching main event channel, hopefully his interview gets put online.

 

But even if he doesnt like it, as long as he is letting the team do this as a means to get round issues with retaining possession not working its fine, it shows he is flexible when needed.

 

I noticed it wasnt just the counter thats changed but also when we have possession we only now do a few side way passes then a forward ball is played.  So either way we going more direct now.  We had a spell of possession in first half outside their box which led to a Daka shot, sadly he didnt score, if he did it would have been a possession goal.

Edited 18 December 2023 by Chrysalis

[StriderHiryu]

55 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

@StriderHiryu what do you think of enzo ball 2.0 last 3 games?

Check out some of the Beyond the 90 videos on YouTube where we talk about this in more detail.

 

 

For me, I was at times mesmerized by our play today! The point of this style is to control the game and then when one of the opposing players "jumps" from their usual rest defence position to try to win the ball or hunt down the spare man, we play the ball quickly and incisively through the gaps that have appeared at speed to generate high quality chances. The highlights will not do today's game justice, because our best moves didn't end in a goal, but on Sky the number of times the commentator said "Leicester have 4 on 3 here!" is by design, not by chance.

 

For those who think we are deliberately playing counter-attack, we are not! This is how the system was designed to work from day one. But the big difference is now that we have had 20+ games to bed the system in and get used to the patterns of play, the structure, where each other will be on the pitch, it is so much more deadly.

 

I think Patson Daka is a big hit in this system. Ironically, today his link-up was great, but his finishing / decision-making in the box was not! But his pace and directness I feel adds a lot to our game, whereas maybe with Vardy and Ihenacho, our attack slows down a bit.

 

In the last two games we have conceded two goals. That won't make Enzo happy at all, especially as a lot of the times they are so sloppy. But overall we've clearly gone up a gear.

 

When we are the finished article, we should be beating teams 4 and 5-0, having total control of the game, and the opposition not being able to lay a glove on us. If we see it this season, we probably won't see it until the final 10 games, but I think we will get there. If we can keep the bulk of these players together, we could also have a good season in the Premier League too. More teams in the Premier League play on the transition than in this division, and finally we are starting to see that our style is BETTER against teams that try to press us than against teams that sit.

 

Magnifico Enzo!

 

 

 

Edited 18 December 2023 by StriderHiryu

[HybridFox]

That first goal was beautiful. Leicester City of old

[eblair]

I know it sounds insane but I enjoyed today so much more than any other game this season.

 

Felt like watching my favourite Leicester sides again, absolutely terrifying on the counter attack. Enzo has been great can’t deny it, but god did I use to just love watching us absolute cause teams to panic. Now teams tire and concede out of exhaustion

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Check out some of the Beyond the 90 videos on YouTube where we talk about this in more detail.

 

For me, I was at times mesmerized by our play today! The point of this style is to control the game and then when one of the opposing players "jumps" from their usual rest defence position to try to win the ball or hunt down the spare man, we play the ball quickly and incisively through the gaps that have appeared at speed to generate high quality chances. The highlights will not do today's game justice, because our best moves didn't end in a goal, but on Sky the number of times the commentator said "Leicester have 4 on 3 here!" is by design, not by chance.

 

For those who think we are deliberately playing counter-attack, we are not! This is how the system was designed to work from day one. But the big difference is now that we have had 20+ games to bed the system in and get used to the patterns of play, the structure, where each other will be on the pitch, it is so much more deadly.

 

I think Patson Daka is a big hit in this system. Ironically, today his link-up was great, but his finishing / decision-making in the box was not! But his pace and directness I feel adds a lot to our game, whereas maybe with Vardy and Ihenacho, our attack slows down a bit.

 

In the last two games we have conceded two goals. That won't make Enzo happy at all, especially as a lot of the times they are so sloppy. But overall we've clearly gone up a gear.

 

When we are the finished article, we should be beating teams 4 and 5-0, having total control of the game, and the opposition not being able to lay a glove on us. If we see it this season, we probably won't see it until the final 10 games, but I think we will get there. If we can keep the bulk of these players together, we could also have a good season in the Premier League too. More teams in the Premier League play on the transition than in this division, and finally we are starting to see that our style is BETTER against teams that try to press us than against teams that sit.

 

Magnifico Enzo!

 

 

See my last post, I think it isnt just the counter attack thats changed, we seem to be playing with more urgency in general, hopefully you agree.  I will check out the video.

 

I also agree with what you describe as the intention, but before the past 3 games, what I was noticing was the gaps appeared, but players still were passing back to the defenders, it seems Enzo has worked on that with the team to get them exploited, and also has likely recognised we was overplaying it causing ourselves problems.

 

He probably dint like the lack of control in the last game with the extra goals conceded against millwall also, but I think overall this is better for us, than the 7-8 games previous to the last 3.  With better quality players its more likely a full control system would work, as it does require a very high calibre of player.

[Lillehamring]

58 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Noticed today Wilf was playing slightly further forward, so when we countered we'd always have 3 or 4 breaking through.

 

Concerned with how we're almost getting too cocky with the ball at times, and conceding stupid goals or large defensive lapses. 

I thought he was anonymous tonight?

[Chrysalis]

1 minute ago, eblair said:

I know it sounds insane but I enjoyed today so much more than any other game this season.

 

Felt like watching my favourite Leicester sides again, absolutely terrifying on the counter attack. Enzo has been great can’t deny it, but god did I use to just love watching us absolute cause teams to panic. Now teams tire and concede out of exhaustion

Yep for me was by far our best game this season, was a joy to watch.

[Lillehamring]

58 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

@StriderHiryu what do you think of enzo ball 2.0 last 3 games?

I don't think it's any such thing, as i posted in the post match thread:

 

I think it's more that our last three opponents (especially tonight and plymouth) have actually tried to come out and attack us and left loads of space for us to (try) to exploit.  No coincidence that we've conceded 25% of our total goals in the last two games, for the same reason.

 

Whilst i thought the whole 'we've been sussed' farce of a few games back was garbage - it does feel like maybe teams are now realising that parking the bus is a waste of time and that maybe our defence isn't as good as it seems by virtue of rarely being tested?

[CosbehFox]

Helps when Brum’s doughnuts at centre midfield kept going far too high up the pitch leaving us in great 5 v 5 scenarios. 

[Chrysalis]

3 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I don't think it's any such thing, as i posted in the post match thread:

 

I think it's more that our last three opponents (especially tonight and plymouth) have actually tried to come out and attack us and left loads of space for us to (try) to exploit.  No coincidence that we've conceded 25% of our total goals in the last two games, for the same reason.

 

Whilst i thought the whole 'we've been sussed' farce of a few games back was garbage - it does feel like maybe teams are now realising that parking the bus is a waste of time and that maybe our defence isn't as good as it seems by virtue of rarely being tested?

For me I think teams have been coming at us before the past 3 games, but we failed to adapt to it, now we have adapted and we seeing the results.  The stoke game was the last game where a team was scared of us, and that was a while back, about 10 or so games back.

 

Also Vesty got a bit sharper, in tonight's game, I counted at least 5 times, he was about to be tackled and pulled of a great pass at that moment instead of a panic.

Edited 18 December 2023 by Chrysalis

[Lillehamring]

38 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Enzo really dislikes the counter attack, well I enjoyed it.

 

27 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Did he say that?

 

16 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I think he meant he dislikes playing counter attack football rather than disliking a counter attack when we have to do it. It’s clearly an approach very well drilled in the team but he’d rather create chances through retaining possession! 

Counter attacking as a fundament for a playing style, from a tactical perspective, is the antithesis of possession football.

 

But we've shown that if the circumstances are there where we can counter attack, we're sometimes very good at it.

Galling thing tonight was the amount of times we countered with an overload and fail to even get the ball in the box.

[BenTheFox]

29 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Enzo really dislikes the counter attack, well I enjoyed it.

I watched the interview too. This is a broader point, but I think people need to take what he says with a pinch of salt sometimes. He's shown in the time that he's been here that he's actually more flexible and pragmatic than his interviews suggest. Against Sunderland he was advising Hermansen to go long, against Plymouth he also was hitting long balls for Daka/Fatawu, he shown that he us willing to use Souttar when the other team are lumping balls into the box to target men. He made formation 

 

He obviously has a preferred system, but he's shown in games against Preston and Milwall that he's willing to make tweaks to the formation to get the win. When he says things like "we are born with this idea, we'll die with this idea" I think it's putting up a front. The idea that we have played the same way all season is a myth. 

[Lillehamring]

14 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I didnt stay tuned in as the darts was put on by sky, I guess because I was watching main event channel, hopefully his interview gets put online.

 

But even if he doesnt like it, as long as he is letting the team do this as a means to get round issues with retaining possession not working its fine, it shows he is flexible when needed.

 

I noticed it wasnt just the counter thats changed but also when we have possession we only now do a few side way passes then a forward ball is played.  So either way we going more direct now.  We had a spell of possession in first half outside their box which led to a Daka shot, sadly he didnt score, if he did it would have been a possession goal.

I think the reason for this is that from the west brom game we've been creating opportunities from teams pushed forwards - previous to this we've predominantly won the ball further up the pitch.  The  former scenario doesn't require sideways passes, the latter one does.

[Chrysalis]

Yes this is what I have been trying to say before, Counter attacking can be mixed in with a possession game, Man City do it every match as an example.  Its great we have started to do it with devastating results.

 

When its mixed in with possession, its even more deadly as the opposition is expecting us to pass it round them instead of running through them.  The variability adds unpredictability.

[Lillehamring]

15 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Check out some of the Beyond the 90 videos on YouTube where we talk about this in more detail.

 

 

For me, I was at times mesmerized by our play today! The point of this style is to control the game and then when one of the opposing players "jumps" from their usual rest defence position to try to win the ball or hunt down the spare man, we play the ball quickly and incisively through the gaps that have appeared at speed to generate high quality chances. The highlights will not do today's game justice, because our best moves didn't end in a goal, but on Sky the number of times the commentator said "Leicester have 4 on 3 here!" is by design, not by chance.

 

For those who think we are deliberately playing counter-attack, we are not! This is how the system was designed to work from day one. But the big difference is now that we have had 20+ games to bed the system in and get used to the patterns of play, the structure, where each other will be on the pitch, it is so much more deadly.

 

I think Patson Daka is a big hit in this system. Ironically, today his link-up was great, but his finishing / decision-making in the box was not! But his pace and directness I feel adds a lot to our game, whereas maybe with Vardy and Ihenacho, our attack slows down a bit.

 

In the last two games we have conceded two goals. That won't make Enzo happy at all, especially as a lot of the times they are so sloppy. But overall we've clearly gone up a gear.

 

When we are the finished article, we should be beating teams 4 and 5-0, having total control of the game, and the opposition not being able to lay a glove on us. If we see it this season, we probably won't see it until the final 10 games, but I think we will get there. If we can keep the bulk of these players together, we could also have a good season in the Premier League too. More teams in the Premier League play on the transition than in this division, and finally we are starting to see that our style is BETTER against teams that try to press us than against teams that sit.

 

Magnifico Enzo!

 

 

 

Did you notice the number of times when ndidi was moving forward in the 2nd half, dako was making runs into the gaps and ndidi never noticed?  As good as wilf is, he is still very limited as a #8.  But i agree daka's link up work is far superior to any of the other strikers.

[Lillehamring]

11 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

For me I think teams have been coming at us before the past 3 games, but we failed to adapt to it, now we have adapted and we seeing the results.  The stoke game was the last game where a team was scared of us, and that was a while back, about 10 or so games back.

 

Also Vesty got a bit sharper, in tonight's game, I counted at least 5 times, he was about to be tackled and pulled of a great pass at that moment instead of a panic.

I can only think of leeds and sunderland who really had a go.  even west brom sat deep for long periods of that game.

 

But I agree we dealt with their press far better than we dealt with other presses - no errors tonight.

[Lillehamring]

10 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I watched the interview too. This is a broader point, but I think people need to take what he says with a pinch of salt sometimes. He's shown in the time that he's been here that he's actually more flexible and pragmatic than his interviews suggest. Against Sunderland he was advising Hermansen to go long, against Plymouth he also was hitting long balls for Daka/Fatawu, he shown that he us willing to use Souttar when the other team are lumping balls into the box to target men. He made formation 

 

He obviously has a preferred system, but he's shown in games against Preston and Milwall that he's willing to make tweaks to the formation to get the win. When he says things like "we are born with this idea, we'll die with this idea" I think it's putting up a front. The idea that we have played the same way all season is a myth. 

Yes and No - as you say, he hasn't been afraid to make tweaks, but it's essentially been the same basic plan. That's why i don't buy into this enzo 2.0  - it's not that at all, it's enzo 1.1 or 1.2 or 1.3  - the same essential idea, but occasionally tweaked.  And the last few games we've started to see how we expected it to be, how we were teased in preseason that it was going to be. Now teams are abandoning the bus parking (it didn't work), they're trying the 'let's have a go' policy, and sure, teams are getting goals, but the real fruits of the original idea are revealed when we are given space to play into.  the first goal was pure counter attack, but everything else was pretty much, 'moving the ball very quickly forward into space'.

[BenTheFox]

Seeing recently how devastating we can be on the counter does give me more hope about next season should we go up because we will undoubtedly see less of the ball. We absolutely have to be better without the ball though should we go up. 

Edited 18 December 2023 by BenTheFox

[Lillehamring]

15 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Yes this is what I have been trying to say before, Counter attacking can be mixed in with a possession game, Man City do it every match as an example.  Its great we have started to do it with devastating results.

 

When its mixed in with possession, its even more deadly as the opposition is expecting us to pass it round them instead of running through them.  The variability adds unpredictability.

Yes, as i said in my reply to benthefox - it looks like were counter attacking, but it's actually just moving the ball forward very quickly. 

 

People have been talking about a lack of plan B, but I'm starting to realise that what we've predominantly seen (the 'boring' football) was actually enzo's plan B - a back up plan for when teams sit deep - what we're now seeing, and especially tonight, is actually his Plan A - how we play when teams actually come and give us a game!  Eureka!

[StriderHiryu]

44 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Did you notice the number of times when ndidi was moving forward in the 2nd half, dako was making runs into the gaps and ndidi never noticed?  As good as wilf is, he is still very limited as a #8.  But i agree daka's link up work is far superior to any of the other strikers.

I did indeed, and on the post match reaction we said we didn't think Ndidi was quite up to the standard he had set himself in previous games, with his decision making in the final third not as good.

 

In that front 5, it's rare that all of them will be on it. I thought he was better than KDh in the last game, but in this one KDH was much better. Both wingers were electric. So chalk that down to not his best day in the office and move on. Overall, I have still been very impressed with his transition into a new role this season. To come this far in such a short space of time is really impressive. For me the thing I want to see him improve on is changes went put through on goal, like the goal KDH scored. Wilf has got in 3/4 times already this season from what I can remember.

 

He's way better than anyone could predict so who knows how far he might go? Regardless, I expect us to sign someone for that position in the summer anyway as Praet will leave, Casadei is here on loan and even Wilf himself might go. Wouldn't be suprised to see James McAtee play here in that role for us this time next year...

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

See my last post, I think it isnt just the counter attack thats changed, we seem to be playing with more urgency in general, hopefully you agree.  I will check out the video.

 

Yes I personally think this has been the case too. But I don't think it's a "change" or adjustment that the manager has made, but more the result of hard work on the training ground. Here is a quote from Vincent Kompany taken from earlier this year about his Burnley team when they started to rip up the Championship:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/vincent-kompany-burnley-premier-league-alan-pace-b2389383.html

He says it will take 120 training sessions and 100 meetings for the players to fully understand his methods

 

How many training sessions have we had with our full squad? Then what about games after that learning period where they actually improve on it?

 

Man City spank teams on a regular basis, there's no reason to think we aren't trying to do the same.

 

Here's a great blog article going into depth about the chance creation methods Man City use:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2020/09/21/analysing-manchester-citys-attack-chance-creation-methods/

 

A lot of these methods you will have seen tonight! As the saying goes, practice makes perfect...