Tactics Under Maresca

[Dan LCFC]

Can't tell if we've played kind opposition or whether he's let the shackles off somewhat. Been a different beast going forward lately. 10 goals in our last 3 and we could've quite easily had more. Feared in November we were still a bit drab despite our efficiency but I've actually really enjoyed us the last three games. I think we can take Rotherham to bits.

[surrifox]

5 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

I think he meant he dislikes playing counter attack football rather than disliking a counter attack when we have to do it. It’s clearly an approach very well drilled in the team but he’d rather create chances through retaining possession! 

Yes that’s what I got from what he said 

[Claudio Fannieri]

You cannot counter attack against teams who park the bus, so I think it’s always been something in our armoury however it is only coming to fruition when teams over commit and give us the opportunity to break at pace. What pleased me most about last night was how we showed the best of both styles, when Brum committed men forward we countered with devastating effect but then when they sat off us we moved the ball well to open up opportunities as well, despite conceding 2 I felt it was one of, if not our best performance up to the substitution of Mavididi, which was needed to protect him but given our lack of wide options did unbalance us. 
 

Maresca is a quick learner and is clearly working on things in every training session that sees the team improve and continuing to develop new patterns of play. We have now scored 12 goals oink in our last 4 games and 10 in the last 3,  We are at the grind stage of the season and yet we seem be hitting another level, this is such an exciting season watching not only the squad and team grow but also seeing the development of a new manager and his coaching team. 

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Can't tell if we've played kind opposition or whether he's let the shackles off somewhat. Been a different beast going forward lately. 10 goals in our last 3 and we could've quite easily had more. Feared in November we were still a bit drab despite our efficiency but I've actually really enjoyed us the last three games. I think we can take Rotherham to bits.

Plymouth and Birmingham didn't park the bus like the majority of teams which gave us more space to work.

[Matt]

Enzo: "We don't like counter-attacking".

 

No Enzo, we fucking love it.

[JimmyC74]

2 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

You cannot counter attack against teams who park the bus, so I think it’s always been something in our armoury however it is only coming to fruition when teams over commit and give us the opportunity to break at pace. What pleased me most about last night was how we showed the best of both styles, when Brum committed men forward we countered with devastating effect but then when they sat off us we moved the ball well to open up opportunities as well, despite conceding 2 I felt it was one of, if not our best performance up to the substitution of Mavididi, which was needed to protect him but given our lack of wide options did unbalance us. 
 

Maresca is a quick learner and is clearly working on things in every training session that sees the team improve and continuing to develop new patterns of play. We have now scored 12 goals oink in our last 4 games and 10 in the last 3,  We are at the grind stage of the season and yet we seem be hitting another level, this is such an exciting season watching not only the squad and team grow but also seeing the development of a new manager and his coaching team. 

With areas to develop / improve. 

 

Need to back Enzo and press home our advantage.

[James_lcfc]

Maybe there were a few frustrating elements, but last night was thoroughly enjoyable.

 

I guess our play style was more dictated by Birmingham and how weirdly aggressive they were, but it would be nice to see more of that.

 

Further highlights Rooney's incompetence really, as that is not the way you should setup to play against us - Whether he saw it as a 'free hit' or not!

[Lillehamring]

13 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I did indeed, and on the post match reaction we said we didn't think Ndidi was quite up to the standard he had set himself in previous games, with his decision making in the final third not as good.

 

In that front 5, it's rare that all of them will be on it. I thought he was better than KDh in the last game, but in this one KDH was much better. Both wingers were electric. So chalk that down to not his best day in the office and move on. Overall, I have still been very impressed with his transition into a new role this season. To come this far in such a short space of time is really impressive. For me the thing I want to see him improve on is changes went put through on goal, like the goal KDH scored. Wilf has got in 3/4 times already this season from what I can remember.

 

He's way better than anyone could predict so who knows how far he might go? Regardless, I expect us to sign someone for that position in the summer anyway as Praet will leave, Casadei is here on loan and even Wilf himself might go. Wouldn't be suprised to see James McAtee play here in that role for us this time next year...

Agreed.

He has been a revelation but i still feel he's not good enough at shooting, and not confident enough in his passing to play those through balls - but he's still doing a lot of good things (and let's face it, shooting across the board has been patchy this season!) - but i also can't see him as a long term option unless he can raise his game, but it will require a huge push forwards if he's to do that at a higher level than the championship.

 

I like the look of ilias chair, seems like he sits somewhere between KDH and Maddison - and has buckets of confidence even playing in a poor team.

[AKCJ]

4 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

Maybe there were a few frustrating elements, but last night was thoroughly enjoyable.

 

I guess our play style was more dictated by Birmingham and how weirdly aggressive they were, but it would be nice to see more of that.

 

Further highlights Rooney's incompetence really, as that is not the way you should setup to play against us - Whether he saw it as a 'free hit' or not!

Rooney is one of those over eager young managers that thinks all he has to do is say the words and his team will start playing beautiful, free flowing, all out attack football.

 

Birmingham played a high line with Marc Roberts and Dion Sanderson. Milk turns quicker. Then he put their fullbacks one vs one with our wingers with no support from midfield. He also just flat out refused to acknowledge the space that KDH got pretty much all game. Almost as if to say "what are you gonna do, score?!".

 

Not sure why he didn't look at how Eustace had been winning them points and continue playing that way and then looked to change the way they played over time. They simply don't have the personnel to play the way they tried last night.

 

I think Maresca must have been wondering what he was up against and if he'd actually earned his coaching badges.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

Maybe there were a few frustrating elements, but last night was thoroughly enjoyable.

 

I guess our play style was more dictated by Birmingham and how weirdly aggressive they were, but it would be nice to see more of that.

 

Further highlights Rooney's incompetence really, as that is not the way you should setup to play against us - Whether he saw it as a 'free hit' or not!

Well that is definitely something that's open to debate.

 

The only teams that have not been aggressive and got anything off us - and i mean anything! - are Hull, Boro and wednesday - and let's face it Hull got lucky, boro needed a worldy and sheffield got their reward by, guess what, playing more aggressive at the end.

 

We're about half way through the season and very few teams, from what i've seen of other games, have played their natural game against us - they've come in, parked the bus, damage limitation - and it simply hasn't worked.

I expect from now on we'll see more teams playing their natural game against us - Birmingham are a poor side defensively, but they know they can attack and they clearly figured this was their best policy, and it got them 2 goals - there are going to be more games where teams look at us and say 'we can't defend against that, but their defending -when tested! - isn't necessarily that great'.

[brookfox]

Felt like Birmingham played into our hands a bit last night. They kept pushing their front 6 forward and it took one good ball from defence to midfield and we had an overload on e.g.

 

 

Made for an entertaining game, but just highlighted the tactical gulf between a Rooney and an Enzo.

[Lillehamring]

11 minutes ago, brookfox said:

Felt like Birmingham played into our hands a bit last night. They kept pushing their front 6 forward and it took one good ball from defence to midfield and we had an overload on e.g.

 

 

Made for an entertaining game, but just highlighted the tactical gulf between a Rooney and an Enzo.

This is the beauty of the system - what you're image show is that they aren't exactly pushing the 6 players forward (not, at least, in a high press) they're just holding (roughly) their 4-3-3

 

The striker has probably just pressed Mads, which takes him out of the game, the wide men are drawn out to cover JJ and(not so much) Faes, taking them out of the game. And so now, despite them having 6 players involved, where the ball is we have an overload of 5v2 and ricardo, kdn, ndid and daka are all completely unmarked, their two centre mids are isolated.

[Number 6]

I think we do now have potential to completely blow a team away in a 15 minute spell. Not sure we quite had that before so far, as most games have been kept tight.

[brookfox]

13 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

This is the beauty of the system - what you're image show is that they aren't exactly pushing the 6 players forward (not, at least, in a high press) they're just holding (roughly) their 4-3-3

 

The striker has probably just pressed Mads, which takes him out of the game, the wide men are drawn out to cover JJ and(not so much) Faes, taking them out of the game. And so now, despite them having 6 players involved, where the ball is we have an overload of 5v2 and ricardo, kdn, ndid and daka are all completely unmarked, their two centre mids are isolated.

Exactly, and I assume it's Daka who has come short to take the ball from Winks and that's one of their CBs just in shot who has tracked him. Before they know it they have their full backs and 1 CB trying to pick up our 2 wingers and 2 8s.

[James_lcfc]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

Well that is definitely something that's open to debate.

 

The only teams that have not been aggressive and got anything off us - and i mean anything! - are Hull, Boro and wednesday - and let's face it Hull got lucky, boro needed a worldy and sheffield got their reward by, guess what, playing more aggressive at the end.

 

We're about half way through the season and very few teams, from what i've seen of other games, have played their natural game against us - they've come in, parked the bus, damage limitation - and it simply hasn't worked.

I expect from now on we'll see more teams playing their natural game against us - Birmingham are a poor side defensively, but they know they can attack and they clearly figured this was their best policy, and it got them 2 goals - there are going to be more games where teams look at us and say 'we can't defend against that, but their defending -when tested! - isn't necessarily that great'.

Well it made for a really entertaining game, so I was pleased they played the way they did.

 

...but I think the best call for Birmingham against us would have been to sit very deep and frustrate us. Then hope their half decent attacking players could snatch something when/if the time came.

 

I know lots of teams have tried and failed to do this, but doing what Hull did would have been their best opportunity for success.

 

We should have scored 6 or 7 last night.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

Agreed.

He has been a revelation but i still feel he's not good enough at shooting, and not confident enough in his passing to play those through balls - but he's still doing a lot of good things (and let's face it, shooting across the board has been patchy this season!) - but i also can't see him as a long term option unless he can raise his game, but it will require a huge push forwards if he's to do that at a higher level than the championship.

 

I like the look of ilias chair, seems like he sits somewhere between KDH and Maddison - and has buckets of confidence even playing in a poor team.

Beware of the Chair! I've been to see QPR play a few times over the last 2 seasons as a mate has season tickets there, and personally I think he's really overrated. Technically he is very good, he has a brilliant first touch and strikes the ball beautifully both for passing and shooting. But I just don't see someone who has the engine or workrate to play in a modern day Premier League team. I think a good comparison to him is Anthony Knockaert who was great in the Championship but could never do it in the Premier League.

 

EDIT: Just to add, I got to see Ebrechi Eze play for QPR a few times before he went to Palace, and he looked phenomenal. A player I was disappointed we didn't sign TBH! Comparatively, Chair is nowhere near that standard. Their best player that I have seen since then is probably Chris Willock, but he's not a Premier League player for me either.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 December 2023 by StriderHiryu

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, brookfox said:

Felt like Birmingham played into our hands a bit last night. They kept pushing their front 6 forward and it took one good ball from defence to midfield and we had an overload on e.g.

 

 

Made for an entertaining game, but just highlighted the tactical gulf between a Rooney and an Enzo.

Great screenshot because it shows off the box midfield Enzo uses. KDH is totally free because their 6 has made the jump, so Winks is going to play it to Ndidi who can pop it sideways to KDH who has the freedom of the stadium. What is Dembele for Birmingham doing? He's not man-marking anyone, nor blocking the passing lane to any player, and he's caught on his haunches meaning that any play near him he will be slow to react to. Off the ball work is as important, if not more important than work on it!

[Aleksz]

That front 5 last night before changes were made were absolutely electric. As much as I think Birmingham played into our hands last night, the pace combination of Fatawu, Mavididi KDH (Who can really shift by the way) and Daka was absolutely brutal for them to deal with.

 

Not quite sure if I would go as far as saying Enzo has took the handbrake off - but if he has it’s come at a cost of a bit of control and goals conceded. 
 

I suppose there’s a time and place for it. Millwall made our lives difficult for the first half and we had to control, where as Birmingham made it easy to kill them in transition last night.

 

Either way over the last 3 games you’ve seen a bit of variation in selection, tactical tweaks (Millwall) and style (Birmingham) from Enzo which is reassuring.

[Aleksz]

12 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Can't tell if we've played kind opposition or whether he's let the shackles off somewhat. Been a different beast going forward lately. 10 goals in our last 3 and we could've quite easily had more. Feared in November we were still a bit drab despite our efficiency but I've actually really enjoyed us the last three games. I think we can take Rotherham to bits.

Agreed. Been saying it for ages but sooner or later someone is getting a hiding from the off if we can score early - even more so than one might say Plymouth was.

[Dan LCFC]

3 hours ago, brookfox said:

Felt like Birmingham played into our hands a bit last night. They kept pushing their front 6 forward and it took one good ball from defence to midfield and we had an overload on e.g.

 

 

Made for an entertaining game, but just highlighted the tactical gulf between a Rooney and an Enzo.

They were one of the easiest sides to play against this season. 2-3 really did flatter them. They were rubbish.

[Dan LCFC]

4 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Rooney is one of those over eager young managers that thinks all he has to do is say the words and his team will start playing beautiful, free flowing, all out attack football.

 

Birmingham played a high line with Marc Roberts and Dion Sanderson. Milk turns quicker. Then he put their fullbacks one vs one with our wingers with no support from midfield. He also just flat out refused to acknowledge the space that KDH got pretty much all game. Almost as if to say "what are you gonna do, score?!".

 

Not sure why he didn't look at how Eustace had been winning them points and continue playing that way and then looked to change the way they played over time. They simply don't have the personnel to play the way they tried last night.

 

I think Maresca must have been wondering what he was up against and if he'd actually earned his coaching badges.

In fairness to him he got brought in to move away from this. It's a clearly dumb move though.

[Chrysalis]

1 minute ago, Dan LCFC said:

In fairness to him he got brought in to move away from this. It's a clearly dumb move though.

Birmingham are not the worst team we have played against, I think if we played enzo ball 1.0 we would have drawn or lost in the game.

 

But Rooney probably should have been brought in during a summer alongside a squad overhaul because playing the way they want requires the right set of players.

[Dan LCFC]

1 hour ago, Aleksz said:

That front 5 last night before changes were made were absolutely electric. As much as I think Birmingham played into our hands last night, the pace combination of Fatawu, Mavididi KDH (Who can really shift by the way) and Daka was absolutely brutal for them to deal with.

 

Not quite sure if I would go as far as saying Enzo has took the handbrake off - but if he has it’s come at a cost of a bit of control and goals conceded. 
 

I suppose there’s a time and place for it. Millwall made our lives difficult for the first half and we had to control, where as Birmingham made it easy to kill them in transition last night.

 

Either way over the last 3 games you’ve seen a bit of variation in selection, tactical tweaks (Millwall) and style (Birmingham) from Enzo which is reassuring.

I think they were quite lucky to score twice yesterday. One shot all second half deflected in. Really sums up the randomness of football at times that Birmingham and Millwall, two of the worst sides I think we've played were the ones to score twice past us.

[Dan LCFC]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Birmingham are not the worst team we have played against, I think if we played enzo ball 1.0 we would have drawn or lost in the game.

 

But Rooney probably should have been brought in during a summer alongside a squad overhaul because playing the way they want requires the right set of players.

The worst no but one of. The worst might actually be Southampton which is quite something. They're a different beast now.

[Chrysalis]

8 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

The worst no but one of. The worst might actually be Southampton which is quite something. They're a different beast now.

I would put them in the top 50 percentile, they have been bad in their previous games, but I am judging them against us.  Interesting as well many neutrals say the game against us was the best they have played under rooney as well.

 

The worst team I feel was stoke, they just gave us way too much respect and sat back the entire game, they barely moved across the halfway line, and Vesty was even able to stroll forward with the ball without even the threat of a tackle.

Edited 19 December 2023 by Chrysalis