Tactics Under Maresca

[coolhandfox]

Excellent summary and very balanced.

 

46 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Liverpool under Klopp always manage to make these crazy comebacks and I feel like their mentality to attack, even when sometimes it's stupid to do so gives them a level of bravery that instils mental toughness.

But easier when you have Salah, Jota, Diaz, Gakpo, and Núñez to call on.

 

We had very limited attacking option today, looking at our bench we had really just Akgun and Mcteer, one a kid finding his way in the game and another struggle to adjust to English football.

 

Even our options for change the 8s isn't attacking.

 

Feel like we need to add a winger and a 8 in the window.

[Paninistickers]

If there's one criticism you can make this season, it's that one single incident seems to derail us. 

 

 Middlesbrough were hanging on for 0-0 for dear life yet won off a worldie. Today's sending off after a textbook first half. Leeds had 0-0 written all over it. Sheffield Wednesday almost complete dominance playing at 20%. West Brom one lucky punt. Ipswich fluke double deflection. 

 

It's no use just being better than the opposition. You have to run their nose in it too. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

29 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

If there's one criticism you can make this season, it's that one single incident seems to derail us. 

 

 Middlesbrough were hanging on for 0-0 for dear life yet won off a worldie. Today's sending off after a textbook first half. Leeds had 0-0 written all over it. Sheffield Wednesday almost complete dominance playing at 20%. West Brom one lucky punt. Ipswich fluke double deflection. 

 

It's no use just being better than the opposition. You have to run their nose in it too. 

I think that, in part, if you're a team that's used to winning comfortably, then it's probably more difficult to just shrug it off.

 

Re: tactics today, my thought is that this is the first time we've been down to 10 mean this season and so first time for Maresca as a manager. I dare say he's seen Man City go down to 10 men and comfortably see games out and maybe he thought we could do the same. I suspect lesson learned.

[Matt]

We've not conceded too many late goals - the stat earlier in the season was incredible - Not sure what the 'score' is now in the last 20 minutes or whatever the stat was.

 

But! I think the late goals and/or the manner we've conceded them needs to be spoke about.

 

Sheff Wed, Middlesbrough, Ipswich, Coventry today.

 

We won in games against Millwall and Birmingham but late goals against them unsettled us and made for nervy endings when it could and should have been more comfortable.

 

Not a criticism as such but it needs speaking about, certainly when you consider this from a team who crave and speak of 'control' so much.

 

If we're not going to kill games off (That's not aimed at todays game, we were down to 10 men for 45 minutes) we need to do the dirty work better, learn how to grind results out and staying strong at the back, showing some grit and resolve.

 

Edited 13 January by Matt

[Bordersfox]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Excellent summary and very balanced.

 

But easier when you have Salah, Jota, Diaz, Gakpo, and Núñez to call on.

 

We had very limited attacking option today, looking at our bench we had really just Akgun and Mcteer, one a kid finding his way in the game and another struggle to adjust to English football.

 

Even our options for change the 8s isn't attacking.

 

Feel like we need to add a winger and a 8 in the window.

Sensi for winks rotation (but could also occasionally play 8), an 8 and a versatile forward would be ideal I think.  Someone who can play across the line.

 

I am dreaming. 

[StriderHiryu]

3 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Excellent summary and very balanced.

 

But easier when you have Salah, Jota, Diaz, Gakpo, and Núñez to call on.

 

We had very limited attacking option today, looking at our bench we had really just Akgun and Mcteer, one a kid finding his way in the game and another struggle to adjust to English football.

 

Even our options for change the 8s isn't attacking.

 

Feel like we need to add a winger and a 8 in the window.

Yes of course it's easy to say. But in the Championship we don't need to be scared. I felt like we sat on the lead against Wednesday, West Brom (but got away with it), Millwall and Birmingham.

 

I'm picking at scraps, but I see a similar issue with Arteta at Arsenal. For the most part a fabulous team, but they don't seem to do well with adversity. Klopp on the other hand wherever he goes tends to get that out of his teams. It doesn't always work out and Klopp himself has had bad season, see his last one with Dortmund and I would argue last year too. But there's something about him. And I feel it's getting his team used to attacking is one reason why. I would say the same about Fergie at Man United too. Man City maybe not so much, they are more of a machine, though today they did it themselves too!

 

In this division WE are the team with the unfair advantage. Hence I don't think we need to so passive in seeing the game out. But as I say statistically it makes more sense to control it. I just don't like it in prinicpal!!!

[StriderHiryu]

3 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

If there's one criticism you can make this season, it's that one single incident seems to derail us. 

 

 Middlesbrough were hanging on for 0-0 for dear life yet won off a worldie. Today's sending off after a textbook first half. Leeds had 0-0 written all over it. Sheffield Wednesday almost complete dominance playing at 20%. West Brom one lucky punt. Ipswich fluke double deflection. 

 

It's no use just being better than the opposition. You have to run their nose in it too. 

Very nicely put. I think that's the point I was trying to make, but not so eloquently.

 

Even the best teams will get unlucky at some point, or put in a stinker. But it does seem that just one thing makes us give up. This is still pretty early in the Enzo project, but for example, after we conceded I thought the loss was coming. Heads dropped instead of having the warrior mentality.

 

When we won the title, we had an away game at Arsenal, which we lost! But in that game, despite going a man down and then conceding for 1-1, the team played like lions. Players literally throwing themselves at the ball, Schmeichel in full brick wall mode. Even after the game Thierry Henry an Arsenal legend said that Leicester were the team that played like Champions, despite losing. Today for 44 minutes I felt we also played like Champions, going away to a local rival in amazing form and a raucous atmosphere, kept our heads and took the lead through playing our way of playing. But afterwards, we didn't play with belief. Enzo himself looked like he was shitting bricks on the sideline.

 

All that said, to instil such belief is extremely hard. I do a lot of coaching myself and I can't say it's something I'm able to instil, and I have tried it! Is it more a case of building a team of the right mental characteristics, like Simeone at Atletico? I am sure wiser men that men will have an opinion!

 

 

[coolhandfox]

27 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

When we won the title, we had an away game at Arsenal, which we lost! But in that game, despite going a man down and then conceding for 1-1, the team played like lions. Players literally throwing themselves at the ball, Schmeichel in full brick wall mode. Even after the game Thierry Henry an Arsenal legend said that Leicester were the team that played like Champions, despite losing. Today for 44 minutes I felt we also played like Champions, going away to a local rival in amazing form and a raucous atmosphere, kept our heads and took the lead through playing our way of playing. But afterwards, we didn't play with belief. Enzo himself looked like he was shitting bricks on the sideline.

I think teams and player are forged by adversity and learning from it. The PL title team was forged by winning the Championship and the great escape.

 

The likes of Kasper, Morgan, Vardy, Drinkwater, had also gone though the fires of the Watford PO loss.

 

This team has a lot to learn and experience.

 

Enzo a inexperienced manager, Klopp had managed 270 at Mainz before going to Dortmund, and 589 games combined by the time he went Liverpool.

 

Your comparison are a little harsh on Enzo and the boys.

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

23 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I think teams and player are forged by adversity and learning from it. The PL title team was forged by winning the Championship and the great escape.

 

The likes of Kasper, Morgan, Vardy, Drinkwater, had also gone though the fires of the Watford PO loss.

 

This team has a lot to learn and experience.

 

Enzo a inexperienced manager, Klopp had managed 270 at Mainz before going to Dortmund, and 589 games combined by the time he went Liverpool.

 

Your comparison are a little harsh on Enzo and the boys.

 

 

Yep fair points! Deeney Day moulded those boys into men! 

[orangecity23]

I definitely think Deeney day did harden the attitudes of the players, which stood them in great stead later on. It was such a slap in the face, that it gave everyone the burning desire to never go through something like that again. Something like that was notable in that Michael Jordan documentary on Netflix a few years back - the guy was a serial winner, but you could tell he was stil pissed off about setbacks that happened decades ago. I definitely think there is an element in elite sportspeople at the very top that harnesses the motivation that comes out of sheer vindictiveness and spite about past wrongs! Might explain the Liverpool/Klopp point as well - he permanently likes to foster some kind of victim mentality, where the officials/scheduling/weather/curvature of the earth is somehow biased against them and keeps them in a constant state of being riled-up, so when they suffer a setback it ticks them off, and motivates them again that someone is trying to screw them over.

[filbertway]

I hope these aren't the standard tactics when we're underdogs, cus next season is going to be even shitter than im already anticipating if so.

[Mickyblueeyes]

He got it wrong yesterday. I think he is sensible enough to know that. From start to finish. 
 

However, he is a very talented young coach. I’m happy to live with that as he learns with us. We’ve had bad managers before. This isn’t one. It be interesting to see how he approaches a 10 man game again. 

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

He got it wrong yesterday. I think he is sensible enough to know that. From start to finish. 
 

However, he is a very talented young coach. I’m happy to live with that as he learns with us. We’ve had bad managers before. This isn’t one. It be interesting to see how he approaches a 10 man game again. 

I think people forget how unexperienced he is, he'll learn a lot from yesterday.

[Balj]

2 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

He got it wrong yesterday. I think he is sensible enough to know that. From start to finish. 
 

However, he is a very talented young coach. I’m happy to live with that as he learns with us. We’ve had bad managers before. This isn’t one. It be interesting to see how he approaches a 10 man game again. 

Nicely put - agree.

[Stadt]

14 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

If there's one criticism you can make this season, it's that one single incident seems to derail us. 

 

 Middlesbrough were hanging on for 0-0 for dear life yet won off a worldie. Today's sending off after a textbook first half. Leeds had 0-0 written all over it. Sheffield Wednesday almost complete dominance playing at 20%. West Brom one lucky punt. Ipswich fluke double deflection. 

 

It's no use just being better than the opposition. You have to run their nose in it too. 

That’s where Maresca seems to differ to Pep, he has a proclivity to be negative after going ahead sometimes 

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, Stadt said:

That’s where Maresca seems to differ to Pep, he has a proclivity to be negative after going ahead sometimes 

Seems to be a very Italian thing.

[Corky]

7 hours ago, filbertway said:

I hope these aren't the standard tactics when we're underdogs, cus next season is going to be even shitter than im already anticipating if so.

I don't think it will be. We'd not been down to ten men before so no comparison and probably the worst game to happen in with a lively home crowd, an in form team and not many real attacking options available.

 

 

[Muzzy_no7]

Seen no evidence to suggest Enzo will learn from this. 
 

West Brom, Ipswich, Boro and sheff Weds fixtures haven’t seemed to have done the trick so why should this one? 

[Muzzy_no7]

31 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Seems to be a very Italian thing.

Careful with this against the grain opinion on here. 

[Dahnsouff]

7 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Seen no evidence to suggest Enzo will learn from this. 
 

West Brom, Ipswich, Boro and sheff Weds fixtures haven’t seemed to have done the trick so why should this one? 

 

1 minute ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Careful with this against the grain opinion on here. 

Here is an opinion looking for an argument. 

[whoareyaaa]

9 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Seen no evidence to suggest Enzo will learn from this. 
 

West Brom, Ipswich, Boro and sheff Weds fixtures haven’t seemed to have done the trick so why should this one? 

We can't win every game stop the bed wetting

[Aleksz]

6 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Seen no evidence to suggest Enzo will learn from this. 
 

West Brom, Ipswich, Boro and sheff Weds fixtures haven’t seemed to have done the trick so why should this one? 

West Brom we won… Ipswich he didn’t manage the game correctly admittedly… and Boro and Sheff Weds the players just downright didn’t turn up? I fail to see why you’ve put those games on Enzo here?

 

All in all I thought yesterday was alright up until the red card, without that we get out of there 2/3-0. Admittedly it all went very negative after half time but it’s way too easy to say with with hindsight. Not really sure what he was supposed to do differently yesterday. If anything I thought he should have gone even more “negative” and put Hamza on earlier and even put Doyle on as another CB.

[CheeseHead]

Bed wetters out in force. They'll drown if we don't beat Ipswich

[Paninistickers]

41 minutes ago, Stadt said:

That’s where Maresca seems to differ to Pep, he has a proclivity to be negative after going ahead sometimes 

I don't think our tactics take into account the opposing team's mentality. 

 

We can be (seemingly) cruising at 1 or 2 up and the opponents can often be quite content with that and basically then give it bash in the last 15 mins. 

 

Even v Brum, cruising with a 2 goal cushion and an opponent totally out of their depth against us, shithouse a goal late on and it's game on. 

[Tielemans63]

I honestly find the soul-searching after 1 defeat quite funny.

 

Managers make decisions in the moment. Inevitably they will get it wrong from time to time.

 

Enzo has got a lot more right than he has wrong, and Fatawu's moment of madness was beyond his control.

 

FWIW, I can see why he backed the team to see it out and win 1-0. Cov weren't exactly ripping us apart. If he'd played more attacking tactics and we'd still lost, I dare say a few of the same voices would be hammering him for being 'naive'.

 

He did make a few dodgy calls yesterday, but that happens. You can't plan for a player losing his head before you even get to half time.

 

We've lost 4 in 27 ffs. The comparisons with Brendan are laughable imho.