Tactics Under Maresca

[cropstonfox]

Our wingers might be enough to get us out this division mainly by beating the full backs of lower table teams.

Both will be useless in  relegation  fight next year.niether could lace Lloyd Dyers boots.

[Gamble92]

1 minute ago, cropstonfox said:

Our wingers might be enough to get us out this division mainly by beating the full backs of lower table teams.

Both will be useless in  relegation  fight next year.niether could lace Lloyd Dyers boots.

Lloyd Dyer was amazing for how direct he could be and taking a man on with pace. But Fatawu and Mavididi are better at so many aspects. It took Dyer a few years to be a top winger in the Championship too. 

[UniFox21]

We really left ourselves open to the counter with how we set up. 

Ricardo pushing into that additional 8 role, and then Faes/Vesty pushing a bit further towards Winks at times really left us exposed. 

[dannythefox]

1 hour ago, sbfox said:

Why? Is this obvious question. Yeah, they can probably blame on the opposite wing, but what the benefit to the team? Feel like we're nitpicking for the sake of it. 

So they can play the ball across the face of goal rather than put it at the back post every cross, it’s too predictable what they do. It’s would be good to mix it up like cannon did today. 

[Mike Oxlong]

We’re still a little too risk averse when having the option of playing in runners imo. The movement upfront is pretty good but the safe option is chosen more often than I’d like which then presents us with a narrow block which is difficult to play through 

[Gamble92]

3 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

We really left ourselves open to the counter with how we set up. 

Ricardo pushing into that additional 8 role, and then Faes/Vesty pushing a bit further towards Winks at times really left us exposed. 

It's like we thought they'd set up like stoke 

[fuchsntf]

8 hours ago, ronnup said:

 

Agreed. It concerned me that we stuck a striker put wide then ignored him for 15 minutes,  tbf to the lad he created a few chances. Daka was poor for me today, the ball bounced off him so much, I think Cannon or Vards should've started but that's hindsight 

Staying to actual players chose…Why didn’t he have  Cannon in the middle and

Dakas last minutes on the Wing..

[Sly]

2 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Staying to actual players chose…Why didn’t he have  Cannon in the middle and

Dakas last minutes on the Wing..

Daka has at least played that position before; supplying Haaland when they were both at Salzburg. 

[The Doctor]

11 hours ago, ronnup said:

 

Agreed. It concerned me that we stuck a striker put wide then ignored him for 15 minutes,  tbf to the lad he created a few chances. Daka was poor for me today, the ball bounced off him so much, I think Cannon or Vards should've started but that's hindsight 

We didn't? The tactic was clear, put him out there to attack the back post with Fatawu floating crosses into that area when he was cutting back onto his left. 

[Chrysalis]

12 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

We’re still a little too risk averse when having the option of playing in runners imo. The movement upfront is pretty good but the safe option is chosen more often than I’d like which then presents us with a narrow block which is difficult to play through 

100%.

[Leeds Fox]

I understand the benefits of using inverted wingers.

 

However, if you’re going to insist on clipping crosses into the back post, playing them on the side of their favoured foot gives the strikers (and back post runners) a much better chance to get a head on it.

 

Genuinely baffling. 
 

Unless, Enzo would rather gamble on the lower percentage of a winner and have the ball go out than a defender win it.

Edited 18 February by Leeds Fox

[Matt]

Was quite bouyed, exciting and refreshed when he bought Cannon on yesterday. 2 strikers on the pitch when chasing a game!! Something different!

 

....Then he proceeded to play him on the wing!

[StriderHiryu]

Put this in another thread, but will post it here too:

 

I thought the way Boro setup was the perfect way to try to beat Leicester with a weaker team. I think they combined a few aspects well:

• They only pressed at certain times and pressed specific people. The wide CBs and the two double-pivots. They let Vestergaard have lots of time on the ball, but not the other two CBs.
• They didn't go man for man, they had two defensive blocks when we were in their third. They were prepared to defend deep and hang on when needed.
• They blocked passing lanes back to the keeper, I noticed this quite early on. They wanted us to pass it to Faes and Justin. My assumption is that if they won the ball off those two then Vestergaard wouldn't have the pace to recover so you can take two players out of the game with a calculated risk.
• They changed their front line so that they had lots of fast, mobile players who posed a threat on the break rather than their physical number 9's. Both Azzaz and Silvestra were superb for them.

Why I liked their approach is that it's a way to try and pose a threat against a team that is man for man better than yours. By not going man-for-man all over the park, it makes you more defensively stable. By having a rapid front 3 and pressing the wide players, it gives you a counter attacking threat all game long. If I was going up against Maresca, these are probably the tactics I would use too.

 

Despite saying that, we had way more possession and made tons of chances. If Daka scored that free header before their first goal it's a totally different game. This was also the first time under Enzo where everyone on the team was so poor. Only Hermansen comes out of that game with any credit. Vestergaard I think also did well overall, but he skied it when 6 yards out, and his lack of pace made him look like he was running in treacle for the first goal. So I'm not sure about winning the tactical battle per se, but think they were great tactics, and they took advantage of an off day from us. If every one of our players is misplacing a 5 yard pass, then you aren't beating anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 February by StriderHiryu

[StriderHiryu]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Was quite bouyed, exciting and refreshed when he bought Cannon on yesterday. 2 strikers on the pitch when chasing a game!! Something different!

 

....Then he proceeded to play him on the wing!

 

A manager like this will never put two target men directly up front. The system is all about pre-rehearsed movements and attacking patterns of play. If you change formation, all of that goes into the bin unless the team has practised two separate sets of movements, which is never going to happen. Trust me, it takes so much time and effort to get our patterns of play working and a ton of practice on the training pitch.

 

So regarding the Cannon substitution, it's related to crossing. I've never seen us try a cross into the back post as often as we did against Boro, it was driving me nuts!

 

Boro came into the game with a lot of injuries and Ayling was playing at RB, out of position. I remember Leeds fans saying they loved Ayling, but that defensively he was poor and had needed replacing for a while. I hadn't seen previous Boro games, but I bet that in one or two of their games, other teams exploited him, and we saw it as a weakness. So with that line of thinking, putting a striker in that position instead of a winger makes sense if that's the tactic and Mavididi is having an off day.

 

Despite the changes and many poor individual performances, we still made plenty of high quality chances, one of which we scored. 2 shots on target sounds bad, but what about Vestergaard and Vardy skying it from 6 yards out when the goal is gaping? Or Daka having a header and heading it wide of the goal, when on target it goes in?

 

So I don't think we were too bad tactically, although after the first 45 minutes, I would not have persevered with the back post crosses against Ayling. It just wasn't happening!

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 February by StriderHiryu

[Foxysausages]

@StriderHiryu Do you think we'll perform much more fluidly against Leeds? Perhaps this was a bad day at the office as we performed a lot better in the second half even though the match was dire. 

I think it's obvious that Leeds will have their own game plan but does it bode well for the rest of the season. 

Also we simply HAVE to work on finishing because missing 6 yard chance 4 times is very poor 

[StriderHiryu]

13 minutes ago, Foxysausages said:

@StriderHiryu Do you think we'll perform much more fluidly against Leeds? Perhaps this was a bad day at the office as we performed a lot better in the second half even though the match was dire. 

I think it's obvious that Leeds will have their own game plan but does it bode well for the rest of the season. 

Also we simply HAVE to work on finishing because missing 6 yard chance 4 times is very poor 

I'm a bit scared to be honest. The team that were most impressive against us and who made us look the poorest were Leeds. They will go for a man-to-man press, but they have players that can match ours in terms of individual quality. They have a rapid front 3 and some of their players are bang in form, one of which is Gnotto who in terms of raw talent might be the most talented player in the entire division.

 

With the way they play, if we can play around their press we can open them up. That might work to our favour, as Boro actually sat back in the defensive phase after the initial build up was complete, so there should be more room to exploit. But we've got to beat that first press, and in the reverse fixture we struggled badly to do that. If we turn up and play confidently, we can do to them what we did to Southampton, but equally if we play badly, they could beat us easily too.

 

I'd expect a game similar to the Southampton one where they have a bit more possession but we have great breakaways. We have to survive that first 20 minutes though, their fans will be smelling blood and with 8 wins in a row, their confidence is sky high.

 

Perhaps the one good thing about the Boro loss is that it gives everyone a kick up the backside. I felt like the two goals we gave away came from overconfidence in our defensive ability.

[Unabomber]

20 hours ago, cropstonfox said:

Our wingers might be enough to get us out this division mainly by beating the full backs of lower table teams.

Both will be useless in  relegation  fight next year.niether could lace Lloyd Dyers boots.

Are you being serious? If anything our wingers are the ones who could cut it in the prem. 

[BertFill]

2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I'm a bit scared to be honest. The team that were most impressive against us and who made us look the poorest were Leeds. They will go for a man-to-man press, but they have players that can match ours in terms of individual quality. They have a rapid front 3 and some of their players are bang in form, one of which is Gnotto who in terms of raw talent might be the most talented player in the entire division.

 

With the way they play, if we can play around their press we can open them up. That might work to our favour, as Boro actually sat back in the defensive phase after the initial build up was complete, so there should be more room to exploit. But we've got to beat that first press, and in the reverse fixture we struggled badly to do that. If we turn up and play confidently, we can do to them what we did to Southampton, but equally if we play badly, they could beat us easily too.

 

I'd expect a game similar to the Southampton one where they have a bit more possession but we have great breakaways. We have to survive that first 20 minutes though, their fans will be smelling blood and with 8 wins in a row, their confidence is sky high.

 

Perhaps the one good thing about the Boro loss is that it gives everyone a kick up the backside. I felt like the two goals we gave away came from overconfidence in our defensive ability.

So it could easily be anything from a 4-0 win to a 4-0 defeat!

In fact it will probably be one or the other - a 0-0 draw seems unlikely...

[StriderHiryu]

2 minutes ago, BertFill said:

So it could easily be anything from a 4-0 win to a 4-0 defeat!

In fact it will probably be one or the other - a 0-0 draw seems unlikely...

I'd take the 0-0 right now if offered it. I've always seen this as the hardest game we will have to play all season, even before a ball was kicked. If it's a boring 90 minute affair with both teams well off it... inject it into my veins !

 

I think it being away from home suits us better. We looked a bit nervous in the home fixture as the onus was on us to send them packing. In this one, their fans will demand they attack, which could open up the spaces we are looking for.

[Paninistickers]

3 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I'm a bit scared to be honest

No way. I think our players will fancy it. Like they did first half against Ipswich where we totally dominated the first half. 

 

I watched half of Leeds game yesterday and if you'd said dressed them in west Brom shirts and called them west Brom, you'd just think they were useful and dangerous...but nothing else

 

Edit. And Cov. We ride our luck a bit first half but ultimately everything was going to plan til Fatawu 

Edited 18 February by Paninistickers

[Claridge]

13 hours ago, The Doctor said:

We didn't? The tactic was clear, put him out there to attack the back post with Fatawu floating crosses into that area when he was cutting back onto his left. 

Then he takes off fatawu😂and doesn’t change , stupid idea that didn’t work.Can’t believe he thought it would.Canon  Looks great down the middle, rogersesque decision, hopefully never again

[ARM1968]

39 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Then he takes off fatawu😂and doesn’t change , stupid idea that didn’t work.Can’t believe he thought it would.Canon  Looks great down the middle, rogersesque decision, hopefully never again

He was trying to bring on a 2nd striker without disrupting the shape too much. Fats had been swinging deep crosses into the back post often and I think Enzo thought Cannon might profit from that. Turned out to be a bit of an error if you ask me, but I can certainly see what he was aiming at. 

[fuchsntf]

12 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

A manager like this will never put two target men directly up front. The system is all about pre-rehearsed movements and attacking patterns of play. If you change formation, all of that goes into the bin unless the team has practised two separate sets of movements, which is never going to happen. Trust me, it takes so much time and effort to get our patterns of play working and a ton of practice on the training pitch.

 

So regarding the Cannon substitution, it's related to crossing. I've never seen us try a cross into the back post as often as we did against Boro, it was driving me nuts!

 

Boro came into the game with a lot of injuries and Ayling was playing at RB, out of position. I remember Leeds fans saying they loved Ayling, but that defensively he was poor and had needed replacing for a while. I hadn't seen previous Boro games, but I bet that in one or two of their games, other teams exploited him, and we saw it as a weakness. So with that line of thinking, putting a striker in that position instead of a winger makes sense if that's the tactic and Mavididi is having an off day.

 

Despite the changes and many poor individual performances, we still made plenty of high quality chances, one of which we scored. 2 shots on target sounds bad, but what about Vestergaard and Vardy skying it from 6 yards out when the goal is gaping? Or Daka having a header and heading it wide of the goal, when on target it goes in?

 

So I don't think we were too bad tactically, although after the first 45 minutes, I would not have persevered with the back post crosses against Ayling. It just wasn't happening!

 

 

 

 

I agree, but I thought Praet was our mom, Fatawu if his crosses or assists had been converted like all the other players, would have had better balanced performances. 

M'borough would have faced a different game. 

There is nothing broke... other than not taking and converting those 100%ers

Before, between, and after their goals. 

 

It will be interesting to see, if Enzo tweaks something and if he can and has analyzed Faarke & Leeds, and bring back home his own  and team suprise. 

For the fan base ( whether I agree or not)   will want to see us prove that we can produce a result in a big game.. 

Ditto on presumptions of Hull, WBA, and Southampton, when it matters.

 

These are the CV-proofs of Enzo's first

season.. 

 

In the long run critics/pundits will say we could beat the chaff, but not strong or disciplined enough to stand up to any top clubs challenge when it mattered.. THAT in itself should not discredit or demean either the system or Enzo but like always ends up questioning the full quality of the squad... This is like it or not a train of thought that will follow us until we prove (EOS) otherwise, plus a massive effect on players future careers & decisions.. The hairline difference in football on success and failure.. 

 

My own belief for these 13 games, is Enzo, system and Squad will finish the business. finishing on 109-112 pts. With flying colours. 

Plus we will show we did it the hard way, by seeing top 4 breaking all records for pts total, maybe top 3 achieving 100+pts & 4th 98-99pts.

[filbertway]

An article that is far more eloquent than I can be when making these points. This feels like I good spot because, hopefully will cause people to pause before soaking their panties over seeing a little infographic showing Winks or Vesty have 200 touches and make 100 passes in a game  

https://theathletic.com/5285657/2024/02/20/football-most-misused-statistics-premier-league

[CaliFOXnia]

On 18/02/2024 at 13:10, Claridge said:

Then he takes off fatawu😂and doesn’t change , stupid idea that didn’t work.Can’t believe he thought it would.Canon  Looks great down the middle, rogersesque decision, hopefully never again

You miss the part where Cannon created Vardy's goal with an absolutely superb pass..? - Maybe an example of a "stupid idea that didn't work", oh, I don't know.... working?