Tactics Under Maresca

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, FLAN said:

Charlie Carmichael? Called the Vestegaard thing out on twitter. Souttar doesn’t excel in any key ability for Maresca eg pace flexibility or passing. 

How about defending?

[Paninistickers]

We could get up this season. With relative ease. The blueprint was from 20 odd years ago when Micky Adams played to his squad's strengths 

 

Strong, big, streetwise footballers who'd all spent 5 or 6 years in the PL. They all knew the game. And he exploited it. We had far too much know how and physicality and fitness and ability. 

 

I'm becoming increasingly concerned the players who have the fitness, know how, physicality and extra bit of ability (for championship level anyway) are being excluded for some madcap attempt to emulate man city. We're gonna get bullied. I can see it a.mile off

 

And before the Enzo hipsters go berserk with laughing emojis, being physical and prepared to battle doesn't mean some kind of 1980s Wimbledon. Newcastle are physical. Brentford. Villa with Emery. Liverpool are physical. Palace. Everton. Man U. Etc etc

[StriderHiryu]

@Matt I’m enjoying the debate! I think we have different opinions but I fully get where you’re coming from and I enjoy the recourse.
 

I recently completed some coaching badges and believe it or not this Liverpool debate came up with some others at the time! Though it was more “are / aren’t Liverpool a possession based team” as the discussion point. Definitely some deja-vu here 

[StriderHiryu]

7 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

We could get up this season. With relative ease. The blueprint was from 20 odd years ago when Micky Adams played to his squad's strengths 

 

Strong, big, streetwise footballers who'd all spent 5 or 6 years in the PL. They all knew the game. And he exploited it. We had far too much know how and physicality and fitness and ability. 

 

I'm becoming increasingly concerned the players who have the fitness, know how, physicality and extra bit of ability (for championship level anyway) are being excluded for some madcap attempt to emulate man city. We're gonna get bullied. I can see it a.mile off

 

And before the Enzo hipsters go berserk with laughing emojis, being physical and prepared to battle doesn't mean some kind of 1980s Wimbledon. Newcastle are physical. Brentford. Villa with Emery. Liverpool are physical. Palace. Everton. Man U. Etc etc

100% correct. In fact I’d say this is statistically the way more likely way to do it. 
 

But I think the “idea” of this project is that if we get back up, we are a much more capable team and not just playing Sean Dyche at Everton tactics. 
 

 

Edited 30 July 2023 by StriderHiryu

[Dan LCFC]

I think Liverpool become a possession based team by default of being better than their opposition so are always going to therefore rack up more of the ball as teams sit back against them but I don't think their priority is keeping the ball. I haven't looked this up but I bet in their last 10 games v Man City they've had more of the ball twice at most.

[Corky]

Rodgers is the only manager I know that is obsessed with just keeping the ball. He is very much an outlier.

[Dan LCFC]

1 minute ago, Dan LCFC said:

I think Liverpool become a possession based team by default of being better than their opposition so are always going to therefore rack up more of the ball as teams sit back against them but I don't think their priority is keeping the ball. I haven't looked this up but I bet in their last 10 games v Man City they've had more of the ball twice at most.

Just looked it up - it's 3 times out of 10, and the funny thing on two of those occasions they were hammered so they've done better in that fixture with slightly less of the ball.

 

I think in general it's a bit of an overhyped stat, I think 70% possession is a symptom of a superior side rather than the cause if that makes sense. This is where people like Rodgers / Martin have fallen down. I genuinely don't think Pep plays to have that level of possession as a priority but he just achieves it on the side.

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I think Liverpool become a possession based team by default of being better than their opposition so are always going to therefore rack up more of the ball as teams sit back against them but I don't think their priority is keeping the ball. I haven't looked this up but I bet in their last 10 games v Man City they've had more of the ball twice at most.

If teams like us keep giving them the ball they can't help but try and keep it pass it. 

[Dan LCFC]

Just now, davieG said:

If teams like us keep giving them the ball they can't help but try and keep it pass it. 

There is also this. The minute they dropped off us slightly we looked absolutely clueless unfortunately. Luckily we won't come up against a side like that in this league.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, Corky said:

Rodgers is the only manager I know that is obsessed with just keeping the ball. He is very much an outlier.

All I know is it's scarred me for life. PTSD.

[Dan LCFC]

Rodgers hasn't really moved with the times at all. His ideal is very much based around 2013 sort of time.

[Paninistickers]

12 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

100% correct. In fact I’d say this is statistically the way more likely way to do it. 
 

But I think the “idea” of this project is that if we get back up, we are a much more capable team and not just playing Sean Dyche at Everton tactics. 
 

 

You know your stuff. Being tougher doesn't have to equate to Dyche style approach (tho, bear in mind they played us and Brighton off the park, so it's not all route 1) 

 

Souttar ain't gonna get bullied. VK has shown he's prepared to go in faces. KDH has the fitness. JJ is physically far stronger than Castagne. Hamza has bite and an engine and pace. I know he's everybody's scapegoat for last season, but I think Faes enjoys fronting up. Coady will do too if available. 

 

Winks, Praet, Castagne, Doyle (I ain't sure about him tbh), Daka and to an extent Ricky are all either a bit weak and prone to being bullied or aren't at it. Wilf should have all the attributes but his form is off a cliff and he seems shot mentally, so again a player not up for a fight 

 

 

[Matt]

1 minute ago, Dan LCFC said:

Rodgers hasn't really moved with the times at all. His ideal is very much based around 2013 sort of time.

Yet because he plays in a perceived 'way to play football' he avoids the dinosaur tags.

[Corky]

3 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Rodgers hasn't really moved with the times at all. His ideal is very much based around 2013 sort of time.

It is just his ego, really. Dean Smith wasn't special but we were far better to watch under him.

 

I hope we don't throw out the idea of a possession based manager because we suffered from the extreme example. 

[Gazza M]

We will see in the first 10 games if Maresca is prepared to mix it up at times and get them to put their foot through the ball and also change formation to dig out the points. If he isn't I think we will struggle. 

 

Hopefully he isn't a moron about it like Brendan. We need a target man as plan B to compliment Vardy and Daka. Iheanacho I think will leave.

 

 

[davieG]

5 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

We will see in the first 10 games if Maresca is prepared to mix it up at times and get them to put their foot through the ball

Pep's not averse to it so I don't see why Maresca would be too soft.

[splinterdream]

38 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

We could get up this season. With relative ease. The blueprint was from 20 odd years ago when Micky Adams played to his squad's strengths 

 

Strong, big, streetwise footballers who'd all spent 5 or 6 years in the PL. They all knew the game. And he exploited it. We had far too much know how and physicality and fitness and ability. 

 

I'm becoming increasingly concerned the players who have the fitness, know how, physicality and extra bit of ability (for championship level anyway) are being excluded for some madcap attempt to emulate man city. We're gonna get bullied. I can see it a.mile off

 

And before the Enzo hipsters go berserk with laughing emojis, being physical and prepared to battle doesn't mean some kind of 1980s Wimbledon. Newcastle are physical. Brentford. Villa with Emery. Liverpool are physical. Palace. Everton. Man U. Etc etc

the football was awful, the matches were boring, but it worked. you'd hope maresca has watched some championship football, and has a plan

[StriderHiryu]

23 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

You know your stuff. Being tougher doesn't have to equate to Dyche style approach (tho, bear in mind they played us and Brighton off the park, so it's not all route 1) 

 

Souttar ain't gonna get bullied. VK has shown he's prepared to go in faces. KDH has the fitness. JJ is physically far stronger than Castagne. Hamza has bite and an engine and pace. I know he's everybody's scapegoat for last season, but I think Faes enjoys fronting up. Coady will do too if available. 

 

Winks, Praet, Castagne, Doyle (I ain't sure about him tbh), Daka and to an extent Ricky are all either a bit weak and prone to being bullied or aren't at it. Wilf should have all the attributes but his form is off a cliff and he seems shot mentally, so again a player not up for a fight 

 

 

Agree with you. It's notable how even Pep changed this dynamic with his team, with some much more physical players added to the team.

 

Sadly, I feel like Harry Winks got barged off the ball a bit too easily today. So we are still going to have elements of that in our team.

[Mike Oxlong]

I feel like we are going to be a bit of an experiment, similar to seeing what it would be like if Pep managed say a team like Middelsborougb with a limited transfer budget. Still prefer this over an appointment like Parker. Should be an interesting ride ! 

[StriderHiryu]

15 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

the football was awful, the matches were boring, but it worked. you'd hope maresca has watched some championship football, and has a plan

 

 

 

Burnley:

- Relegated to the Championship for the 22/23 season.

- Needed a rebuild.
- Lost many of their key players like Tarkowski, McNeil and Weghorst.

 

Does this sound at all familiar?

 

Burnley finished 10 points ahead of second placed Sheffield United and 21 points ahead of third place Luton Town. They got 101 points, one of the highest tallies in many years at this level.

 

So seems like a pretty good plan to put in place for the Championship...?

 

 

Edited 30 July 2023 by StriderHiryu

[Paninistickers]

20 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

the football was awful, the matches were boring, but it worked. you'd hope maresca has watched some championship football, and has a plan

I agree. But winning every week is always, always better than the alternative. 

[Lionator]

6 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I agree. But winning every week is always, always better than the alternative. 

Did us no good in the long term though. We got an extra season in the Prem but was a key part of our eventual malaise. 

[Strokes]

I can see what Maresca is trying to do and I can definitely respect the benefits it should produce but we just don’t have the players to pull it off. Having N’didi as an advanced midfielder or Daka and Vestergaard in the team is going to cost us points consistently.

We need some quality coming in, We need 2-3 wide men. A very decent 8 and a striker.

Probably another centre back too.

 

I can’t see us getting anywhere without that.

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, messerschmitt said:

I think Castagne has more than an eye on not being here. I'm actually hoping that we give Macateer a chance this season and Marcel-Madivadua has looked good.

It does seem that way (with castagne) - I think it was Jordan Blackwell who suggested that Maresca is using these players as placeholders until we get in new recruits, so the others are used to the system - which makes sense when he was playing as a winger, but not so much as a RB, maybe he just doesn't trust JJ? - which is why he just had a look at him towards the end?

 

McAteer looks really keen, which is great to see and he was certainly better than albrighton and picked up a goal against OHL from the left #8 spot - so i think he must be in with a shout, Marcal, maybe less now Mavididi is likely to grab the starting spot on the left - that said, from what i've read elsewhere, Marcal is better inside, yet he hasn't been tried in a live match in that position....

[Lillehamring]

40 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Agree with you. It's notable how even Pep changed this dynamic with his team, with some much more physical players added to the team.

 

Sadly, I feel like Harry Winks got barged off the ball a bit too easily today. So we are still going to have elements of that in our team.

I'm inclined to think that Winks was under instruction not to take too many risks, there's no point him throwing himself about in this kind of fixture.