Tactics Under Maresca

[shen]

13 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

The six: 

 

Wilf 

Vestergarde 

ricardo 

praet 

nacho 

faes

 

Anyone else that makes more sense? 

Not sure why you posted that in the tactics thread.

 

But I don't think Jannik is one of them judging by Enzo's surprised reaction at the pre-match conference.

 

Hamza could be one, Vardy another. But could be anyone really, maybe some fringe players like Thomas, Marcal-Madivadua etc.

[StriderHiryu]

11 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

One thing that pops out to me is that when we are playing the ball into midfield from defence, we are passing the ball into an area for players to make a run into rather than passing it to feet. These moves are obviously planned. There is much more emphasis on off the ball movement in the middle third. It's as though it's a choreographed set piece move. 

Super astute analysis! Maresca's football and chess analogy put into practice if you will.

 

One thing I find VERY interesting about this system is that players DON'T move sometimes. For example, when Hermansen or Vestergaard start the attack, I would think that some players would move to create new triangles to pass the ball too. But neither us nor Brighton or Man City do that. Instead we circulate the ball around until someone becomes free, and then play it through. As you say though, they play it not to feet but slightly ahead of / to the side of the receiving player to make the space instead.

 

There are arguments to do it both ways, but because these moves start in our own half, we can't risk having players out of position as otherwise turnovers will be too hard to handle. At least that's my interpretation of it!

 

I specifically went to the ground today to watch the system played out live, spending time looking at lots of players on and off the ball. Man it's so different to tactics from even 5 years ago. Very interesting to watch and study.

 

 

Edited 6 August 2023 by StriderHiryu

[StriderHiryu]

4 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

What I love, is he’s cultured, and wears a tracksuit. ****ing don. 

He also seems like a better man manager than Rodgers. Not hard, but it makes a difference. He's also got that Italian passion and fire, and that will endear him to our fans.

 

For me, O'Neil and Ranieri were even more likeable because I felt a connection to them. Especially considering the corporate nature of King Power and the way they run the club, having a genuinely emotional person on the sidelines is a breath of fresh air.

 

[jim5000]

14 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

One of the lads I play football with is a physio at Man City. 
 

He says that emphasis is having full backs who are able to play inside (joining CMs) is absolutely integral to them being successful, which I know is covered in the media a lot. 
 

Luckily for us, we have some quality at full back and it should be enough to see Maresca’s plan come to fruition. 

This was very much the case today. Ricardo was basically playing central DM whenever we had the ball.

[Corky]

The warm ups looked a lot more intense. What I like about today was the amount of tackles we put in that were clean and well timed.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

5 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

He also seems like a better man manager than Rodgers. Not hard, but it makes a difference. He's also got that Italian passion and fire, and that will endear him to our fans.

 

For me, O'Neil and Ranieri were even more likeable because I felt a connection to them. Especially considering the corporate nature of King Power and the way they run the club, having a genuinely emotional person on the sidelines is a breath of fresh air.

 

Early days, but I get the impression as wel that he’s more outspoken and doesn’t sugar coat things. As an example, in one of LCFCTV interviews were the questions are ridiculously loaded he had one about how fit the players and how good the tour has been… he started his response with “Anyway… it is what it is, I’m doing the best in the midst of this circus.” The bit in Italics I am paraphrasing, but he’s not like a Rodgers that talks in vague Brentisms or someone who gives on the fence non answers. Even today when asked about McAteer, he said was good but he needs to be braver. Honesty and not some bullshit PR answer is so refreshing. He seems like a pretty black and white kinda guy.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

The warm ups looked a lot more intense. What I like about today was the amount of tackles we put in that were clean and well timed.

I noticed that - just nice to see different ideas to the same warm up drills we’d seen under Rodgers, Davies, Stowell and Sadler. Just another example of that lot coasting and going through the motions. 

[shen]

28 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Yeah I was thinking about that too. It could definitely be done, but Doyle didn't look that quick to me either. He was the best of the 3 CBs though, and he made some nice progressive passes to Mavididi in the second half. Actually, seeing how they combined after just a few days was quite exciting. Definitely a possibility though!

 

I think people in the match thread were being a bit over critical of Vestergaard. If he had never played for us before and that was his debut, he'd probably be considered OK. But it doesn't change the fact that his weakness is that faster players will put him on toast and the way we play makes that a big possibility. In the Championship maybe it doesn't matter as much, but unless someone back there has pace, it strikes me as being a limitation to the way we play. @Lillehamring makes a good point though, which is that it's not entirely on him if the turnover happens further up the pitch and it's played behind him. The press is supposed to win the ball back fast to stop things like that happening.

 

Did you notice how much harder players are going in for tackles? That's deliberate because the idea is to win the ball back, not just defend. And also if we commit a foul it's sometimes not the worst thing as it gives us time to get back into shape.

My problem with JV was epitomised during the double chance with Haji Wright hitting the crossbar.

He was basically jogging back and left Faes (edit: in fact it was Doyle, from watching it back) to deal with Wright. Maybe this was intentional, but he was in no hurry (nor did he seem to have the awareness) to get back to clear in case the ball would be crossed our rebounded into the penalty area. You can see the surprise in his reaction when he sees there's a Coventry player following up the chance (and really should have scored).

 

You cannot have this attitude, especially not as a defender.

 

He's also positionally poor and doesn't seem to notice where his teammates are when keeping the defensive line. So often he's way behind or in front of Doyle/Faes/Ricardo.

His best defensive attribute is literally his frame being a bit larger than most defenders making him an obstacle when blocking shots. But I do dxpect more from a defender at this level.

Edited 6 August 2023 by shen

[Aleksz]

33 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Super astute analysis! Maresca's football and chess analogy put into practice if you will.

 

One thing I find VERY interesting about this system is that players DON'T move sometimes. For example, when Hermansen or Vestergaard start the attack, I would think that some players would move to create new triangles to pass the ball too. But neither us nor Brighton or Man City do that. Instead we circulate the ball around until someone becomes free, and then play it through. As you say though, they play it not to feet but slightly ahead of / to the side of the receiving player to make the space instead.

 

There are arguments to do it both ways, but because these moves start in our own half, we can't risk having players out of position as otherwise turnovers will be too hard to handle. At least that's my interpretation of it!

 

I specifically went to the ground today to watch the system played out live, spending time looking at lots of players on and off the ball. Man it's so different to tactics from even 5 years ago. Very interesting to watch and study.

 

 

One of my favourite quotes from the Pep Guardiola books written by Marti Perarnau (Great reads if Football books are your thing) is “We don’t go where the ball goes, The ball goes where we go” and I think describes his and De Zerbi’s whole philosophy perfectly.

[StriderHiryu]

19 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Early days, but I get the impression as wel that he’s more outspoken and doesn’t sugar coat things. As an example, in one of LCFCTV interviews were the questions are ridiculously loaded he had one about how fit the players and how good the tour has been… he started his response with “Anyway… it is what it is, I’m doing the best in the midst of this circus.” The bit in Italics I am paraphrasing, but he’s not like a Rodgers that talks in vague Brentisms or someone who gives on the fence non answers. Even today when asked about McAteer, he said was good but he needs to be braver. Honesty and not some bullshit PR answer is so refreshing. He seems like a pretty black and white kinda guy.

 

Ha ha ha, that interview was hilarious. If looks could kill, that LCFC interviewer would be 10 foot under! As you say, he is refreshingly open about a lot of things... "facilities don't win games," "I told KDH he needs to arrive in the box more often as his G+A isn't high enough", etc.

 

12 minutes ago, shen said:

My problem with JV was epitomised during the double chance with Haji Wright hitting the crossbar.

He was basically jogging back and left Faes (edit: in fact it was Doyle, from watching it back) to deal with Wright. Maybe this was intentional, but he was in no hurry (nor did he seem to have the awareness) to get back to clear in case the ball would be crossed our rebounded into the penalty area. You can see the surprise in his reaction when he sees there's a Coventry player following up the chance (and really should have scored).

 

You cannot have this attitude, especially not as a defender.

 

He's also positionally poor and doesn't seem to notice where his teammates are when keeping the defensive line. So often he's way behind or in front of Doyle/Faes/Ricardo.

His best defensive attribute is literally his frame being a bit larger than most defenders making him an obstacle when blocking shots. But I do dxpect more from a defender at this level.

I am watching the game back now with TV footage, which I don't see whilst at the game and well... I don't think I can argue with a word you've put here! He did make some good blocks and even almost scored, but from a tactical point of view, if you were looking to beat Leicester, Vestergaard is 100% the player you would look to target, and that's saying a lot seeing as we have Wout "can't follow the flight of the ball" Faes playing alongside him.

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, Aleksz said:

One of my favourite quotes from the Pep Guardiola books written by Marti Perarnau (Great reads if Football books are your thing) is “We don’t go where the ball goes, The ball goes where we go” and I think describes his and De Zerbi’s whole philosophy perfectly.

Almost as good a quote as the one from my favourite philosopher, Sir Jamie Vardy:

 

"He who chatteth shit, shall getteth banged"

 

And let me tell you there was a lot of the former from the Coventry away fans today!

[jim5000]

1 hour ago, Lambert09 said:

The six: 

 

Wilf 

Vestergarde 

ricardo 

praet 

nacho 

faes

 

Anyone else that makes more sense? 

Vestergaard has never had any intention of leaving, whoever is the manager. He's had opportunities but has decided he prefers his nice contract and occasional roll-out for matches.

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, Steve Earle said:

Well that was interesting. Could just as easily have lost 3 or 4. Thankfully Cov couldn’t finish.

 

A promising start to the Maresca era though, with lots more still to work on. Our 3241 in possession was widely advertised, so Cov’s 523 out of possession made perfect sense for them: they could man mark our back 3 and Ricardo & Winks. But Hermansen joining in the play always gave us a 6-5 advantage and meant that usually we broke through the press effectively.

In theory that left 5 playing 5: our 4 plus the striker against their back 5. What I thought worked well in the first half was seeing Winks or Ricardo break through the lines instead of laying off to one of the 8s - that then gave us another 6-5 numerical advantage! Sadly we didn’t capitalise on that because our 8s weren’t creative enough and our wingers offered nothing.

 

After weathering the Cov storm for 20-25 mins in the second half, Praet’s introduction changed the game in our favour. Wilf had done surprisingly well as a box to box midfielder but lacks creativity & control. We resumed domination of the ball - not without giving chances away - and class eventually told.

 

In the last 20-25 KDH (poor in the first 45) & Madvidi (poor for the first 70) sparkled, as did Praet. Thought Winks was superb, even with the odd mistake. He looks the real deal in the ‘bumper’ role.

 

Just need upgrades on Vesty (Coady can’t come back too soon, tho Vesty wasn’t poor today), Wilf/Praet & McAteer now. And I’d like JJ to find a way into that back three for added pace and one to one ability. But all things considered a decent start.

 

Onwards & upwards! 🦊💙

There seems a strong support on this forum from JJ, and today he's been suggested for CB, RB and RW.  My feelings on the player is that he was never THAT good, but was elevated in a team that was playing very well at the time, yet, even before his injury seemed to get caught out of position and to misjudge aerial balls, whilst offering almost nothing going forward.

All i've seen of him under maresca was in the ricardo spot and he just looked lost, seemingly having no understanding of the role, and he was ok as a pure RB against liverpool for the few minutes he played. 

 

It feels like people have this odd memory of him being an outstanding player and a unconflictible belief that he will seamlessly fit into this new look football, but, personally, since his injury, i don't have any recollection of him being anywhere near efficient enough.  And i don't think he'd have faired any better today than any of the others - i don't think our issues were purely down to foot speed (though of course that mattered) but by the mistakes and errors that allowed coventry to exploit the space.

[Lillehamring]

59 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

One thing that pops out to me is that when we are playing the ball into midfield from defence, we are passing the ball into an area for players to make a run into rather than passing it to feet. These moves are obviously planned. There is much more emphasis on off the ball movement in the middle third. It's as though it's a choreographed set piece move. 

KDH actually says post-match that the goal was a move they've done loads of times before in training, so it's probably true what you suggest.

[Lillehamring]

31 minutes ago, shen said:

My problem with JV was epitomised during the double chance with Haji Wright hitting the crossbar.

He was basically jogging back and left Faes (edit: in fact it was Doyle, from watching it back) to deal with Wright. Maybe this was intentional, but he was in no hurry (nor did he seem to have the awareness) to get back to clear in case the ball would be crossed our rebounded into the penalty area. You can see the surprise in his reaction when he sees there's a Coventry player following up the chance (and really should have scored).

 

You cannot have this attitude, especially not as a defender.

 

He's also positionally poor and doesn't seem to notice where his teammates are when keeping the defensive line. So often he's way behind or in front of Doyle/Faes/Ricardo.

His best defensive attribute is literally his frame being a bit larger than most defenders making him an obstacle when blocking shots. But I do dxpect more from a defender at this level.

I have to dispute this, i've just watched it back a few times (from when the ball gets to the edge of the box - not sure how it started) and he's tracking back at a slower pace, but keeping up with the play.  The shock, which is mirrored by the cov player, is more a reaction to the ball not going in, but rebounding out - i think they both thought it was going in. After this he stays with the attacker, stays on his feet and forces him to play an awkward shot behind him, rather than allowing him an easy tap in - there wasn't much else he could do and he prevented cov from scoring.

[BenTheFox]

54 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Super astute analysis! Maresca's football and chess analogy put into practice if you will.

 

One thing I find VERY interesting about this system is that players DON'T move sometimes. For example, when Hermansen or Vestergaard start the attack, I would think that some players would move to create new triangles to pass the ball too. But neither us nor Brighton or Man City do that. Instead we circulate the ball around until someone becomes free, and then play it through. As you say though, they play it not to feet but slightly ahead of / to the side of the receiving player to make the space instead.

 

There are arguments to do it both ways, but because these moves start in our own half, we can't risk having players out of position as otherwise turnovers will be too hard to handle. At least that's my interpretation of it!

 

I specifically went to the ground today to watch the system played out live, spending time looking at lots of players on and off the ball. Man it's so different to tactics from even 5 years ago. Very interesting to watch and study.

 

 

Compare it to Claude Puel, whose name I don't want to drag through the mud because he is already given a rough ride by our fans. Under Puel we had a lot of the ball. However, it was very rigid. Players would receive the ball in the position and the balls were always to feet. This allowed the opposition to be set behind the ball and made breaking them down even more difficult. 

 

When we were good under Rodgers, we had off the ball movement. However, it came predominantly in the final third and with overlapping full-backs (in the early stages Chilwill and Ricardo). There wasn't so much movement in midfield. 

[shen]

20 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I have to dispute this, i've just watched it back a few times (from when the ball gets to the edge of the box - not sure how it started) and he's tracking back at a slower pace, but keeping up with the play.  The shock, which is mirrored by the cov player, is more a reaction to the ball not going in, but rebounding out - i think they both thought it was going in. After this he stays with the attacker, stays on his feet and forces him to play an awkward shot behind him, rather than allowing him an easy tap in - there wasn't much else he could do and he prevented cov from scoring.

You really need to watch it from how it starts. He loses out in an aerial duel against Godden on the right side of the pitch (who is 5ft 9 btw) and then starts jogging back. He's a good 8-10 meters ahead of Godden at this point, who is still getting back up and turning after the duel. By the time the ball cannons back off the crossbar, Vestergaard still thinks Godden is on his left only to see him practically alongside on his right. And it's not like he's close to the player either, Godden has not only caught up with him but moved about 5-6 meters laterally across him at the same time. Godden had to bury that shot, but Jannik's "Lurch pose" maybe put him off

[ian__marshall]

One thing I noticed in that spell where Cov were dominant was that they dropped their attackers a bit deeper and played long balls into them not with the intention of holding up the play but having runners from deep picking up the second balls. With the way we set up with the three CBs and the double pivot the long ball bypassed the pivot and our CBs were forced to come out to compete with the attacker (which is obviously part of our game plan to quickly turn play over). This created a lot of space in behind for the runner picking up the second ball. It also meant that said runner had built up speed in their forward run before carrying the ball which is why I think at times the backline looked slow when Coventry broke through as not only was the defender starting from a standing start but they also needed to do so whilst changing direction. 

 

I actually thought the tactic worked quite well, and I can see other teams looking to deploy this tactic against us so I'm intrigued to see how Maresca counters this threat. The logical option for me would be to drop JJ into the right sided CB role and use his explosive pace combined with a slightly higher starting position from Hermansen to ensure we always have the capability to recover and squeeze the space for the opponent to run into. 

[CosbehFox]

On 05/08/2023 at 21:58, LinekersLugs said:

read it again and know this 

 

the journalist thinks Enzo is captain Manering

 

that will give you a 100% different slant on the article

 

 

 

 

LL with his ears to the deck judging from the journalists bitter tweets post match 

[brookfox]

Only one game so too early to judge... but I will do anyway! The main thing I liked about yesterday (other than the actual match and overall interest of seeing a new manager/opposition/players etc.) was seeing us play with a set style. For the last couple of seasons I've not been that sure what even our formation has been let alone our style of play. It's clear that Maresca has come in with a certain approach that is going to take some getting used to (maybe as much, if not more, for the fans than the players), but at least he's come in, stamped his authority on the club, seemingly got people on board and set us up with a clearer identity.

 

It'll be another month or two when we've got more games under our belt and closed the transfer window we'll have a better idea if his approach will get us where we want to be this season, but 100mins of football into the season it's definitely encouraging.

[Gravel]

Who is rocking this touchline top best?

 

Enzo or the notepad chapstick charlatan?

 

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

17 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

One thing I noticed in that spell where Cov were dominant was that they dropped their attackers a bit deeper and played long balls into them not with the intention of holding up the play but having runners from deep picking up the second balls. With the way we set up with the three CBs and the double pivot the long ball bypassed the pivot and our CBs were forced to come out to compete with the attacker (which is obviously part of our game plan to quickly turn play over). This created a lot of space in behind for the runner picking up the second ball. It also meant that said runner had built up speed in their forward run before carrying the ball which is why I think at times the backline looked slow when Coventry broke through as not only was the defender starting from a standing start but they also needed to do so whilst changing direction. 

 

I actually thought the tactic worked quite well, and I can see other teams looking to deploy this tactic against us so I'm intrigued to see how Maresca counters this threat. The logical option for me would be to drop JJ into the right sided CB role and use his explosive pace combined with a slightly higher starting position from Hermansen to ensure we always have the capability to recover and squeeze the space for the opponent to run into. 

Outstanding analysis! I was speaking to some friends post match and said Coventry changed something because it wasn’t just the goal that gave them the impetus. I did notice Hamer played everything first time in the second half, and this is why. 
 

This is one reason I made this thread, to learn. You’ve pointed out something I missed in the game, so cheers, that is much appreciated! 

[lcfc sheff]

Wonder if we’ll see a midfielder play as a false 9 at some point. Hopefully not Ndidi 🤣🤣

[Matt]

Who on earth was frustrated, impatient or moaning about yesterday?!

 

Yeah we didn’t come out in the second half firing at the start of the half but we got back up to speed and turned it around.

 

Even I as an advocate against possession based football (the slow, laborious, type of nonsense of what we’ve seen in the last few years - which is totally different to what we saw yesterday) enjoyed and having nothing against how we played yesterday!

 

It was fast, it was forward, it was exciting and attacking!

 

There were a couple of times where I thought Hermansen could have played quicker, there are times where its needed to slow the game down but there was one instance where Mavididi was free and needed playing quickly but that is literally my only criticism - even at that it’s no biggy.

Not a sideways ball, backwards balls, notepad or silly clap in sight.

 

The juries still out whether it continues but based on yesterday, I can’t say anything against it.

[lcfcdamo]

Imgaine are team with casadei in for ndidi cody in for vestergarbage and a new right winger in with nacho starting over vardy be some team for the championship