Tactics Under Maresca

[Finnegan]

17 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

The openness seems to be a calculated risk of playing a high line but equally shouldn't happen as often as it did - one of the key fundamentals EM has talked about is ball recovery  -in the first hal we were superb at this, in the second half we seemed to forget about it - thus leaving ourselves exposed - which is particularly bad against a good counterattacking side.  BUt i think we can expect the standard of ball recovery to improve as it becomes more ingrained in the player's mentality.

 

Don't think the openness is anything deliberate, it's just the players having to get used to not only a significant change in defensive shape but also quite a few new unorthodox roles. It'll improve. 

[filbertway]

18 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

The openness seems to be a calculated risk of playing a high line but equally shouldn't happen as often as it did - one of the key fundamentals EM has talked about is ball recovery  -in the first hal we were superb at this, in the second half we seemed to forget about it - thus leaving ourselves exposed - which is particularly bad against a good counterattacking side.  BUt i think we can expect the standard of ball recovery to improve as it becomes more ingrained in the player's mentality.

Yeah this is how I see, we want to press high, a symptom of this will be leaving 50 yards of grass for the opposition to run into. Man City have some absolute athletes that can make up for this. Our closest thing to Kyle walker in that respect is probably James Justin.

 

Feels like the idea is to try and get a goal or two in the first 20 minutes and then you don't have to press quite so high or intensely as the goal scoring is already done.

[Lillehamring]

21 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

That was my opinion initially too, but after watching the full match back, I think there are solid grounds for criticism. Very specifically for the Haji Wright chance it might have been possible to make a challenge and / or bring him down and take the yellow. Not only does he get beaten to the ball but he slows down, so after Hermansen makes a fantastic save, he's not there busting a gut to stop the second attempt from Eccles going in either. He also lost the initial header from Coventry too, and this is from someone who is 6"7. Compare his defensive work to Doyle who does bust a gut and tries to make a challenge as a direct comparison of good vs bad play.

 

 

 

Faes was very typically himself in the sense that he got his positioning wrong multiple times and after we went behind got his trademark David Luiz rush of blood to the head. I don't think either player can score more than 6/10 and that's being a little kind to both.

 

 

Be that as it may be - we need to get used to it, or find a way to stop it happening because, by all accounts, Coady is also weak in this area.

 

I get that vestergaard and faes BOTH should have won headers for the haji chance, but the problem is before that, the problem is ndidi ball watching a throw in and then not clattering into the defender - a foul there will rarely be a card - the full back should never have released the long ball.  That's how we fix this, not by changing our CBs.

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Don't think the openness is anything deliberate, it's just the players having to get used to not only a significant change in defensive shape but also quite a few new unorthodox roles. It'll improve. 

Thank for paraphrasing my thoughts

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, filbertway said:

Yeah this is how I see, we want to press high, a symptom of this will be leaving 50 yards of grass for the opposition to run into. Man City have some absolute athletes that can make up for this. Our closest thing to Kyle walker in that respect is probably James Justin.

 

Feels like the idea is to try and get a goal or two in the first 20 minutes and then you don't have to press quite so high or intensely as the goal scoring is already done.

I think the saving grace, as we saw against Cov, is that, whilst there is masses of pace in the championship, the ability to convert these chances is much lower, which means you'll get away with it more than in the prem - that said, a bit of pace at the back never hurt anyone

[shen]

16 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Be that as it may be - we need to get used to it, or find a way to stop it happening because, by all accounts, Coady is also weak in this area.

 

I get that vestergaard and faes BOTH should have won headers for the haji chance, but the problem is before that, the problem is ndidi ball watching a throw in and then not clattering into the defender - a foul there will rarely be a card - the full back should never have released the long ball.  That's how we fix this, not by changing our CBs.

What was he supposed to do other than ball watching from the bench? 

[Lillehamring]

39 minutes ago, shen said:

What was he supposed to do other than ball watching from the bench? 

Dude, it was the smallest video i've ever seen, and my eyes are shot to shit!  Given his position it seemed a safe bet

[Tielemans63]

Really hope Enzo is the man who is brave enough to drop Vardy and make Nacho the main man.

[StriderHiryu]

Part of Tactics is coaching your players so that they can play the role they are given to the best of their ability in the tactical system.

 

Ndidi has always been a poor finisher, and someone with a heavy touch. But if you coach players in the proper manner, you can improve them. Open up your body, wrap the side of your foot round the ball and guide it into the net...

 

 

One swallow doesn't make a summer, but that is a top quality finish, no two ways about it! And that's 3 goals in 1.5 games from attacking midfielders attacking the half space. I'd also like to draw your attention to the way that Iheanacho attracts three Burton defenders towards him, then makes the cutback for an "easy" finish. Man City, Arsenal and even Burnley all score a lot of goals this way. And we have just joined the "half-space cutback" club.

 

EDIT: Actually to be honest in this example he is not attacking the half space, but that will be the next evolution of this type of move.

 

 

Edited 9 August 2023 by StriderHiryu

[HankMarvin]

4 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Part of Tactics is coaching your players so that they can play the role they are given to the best of their ability in the tactical system.

 

Ndidi has always been a poor finisher, and someone with a heavy touch. But if you coach players in the proper manner, you can improve them. Open up your body, wrap the side of your foot round the ball and guide it into the net...

 

 

One swallow doesn't make a summer, but that is a top quality finish, no two ways about it! And that's 3 goals in 1.5 games from attacking midfielders attacking the half space. I'd also like to draw your attention to the way that Iheanacho attracts three Burton defenders towards him, then makes the cutback for an "easy" finish. Man City, Arsenal and even Burnley all score a lot of goals this way. And we have just joined the "half-space cutback" club.

Not sure he has always been a poor finisher. Maybe more of late 

 

 

[SecretPro]

I've decided he's the real deal already. 

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, SecretPro said:

I've decided he's the real deal already. 

Club needs to make sure it gives him the tools....

[SecretPro]

Just now, coolhandfox said:

Club needs to make sure it gives him the tools....

And the time. For once I'd like to give a manager time if it doesn't all click straight away. I can see the ideas with my own eyes, something I haven't witnessed for the last 2 years.

[Out Foxed]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Part of Tactics is coaching your players so that they can play the role they are given to the best of their ability in the tactical system.

 

Ndidi has always been a poor finisher, and someone with a heavy touch. But if you coach players in the proper manner, you can improve them. Open up your body, wrap the side of your foot round the ball and guide it into the net...

 

 

One swallow doesn't make a summer, but that is a top quality finish, no two ways about it! And that's 3 goals in 1.5 games from attacking midfielders attacking the half space. I'd also like to draw your attention to the way that Iheanacho attracts three Burton defenders towards him, then makes the cutback for an "easy" finish. Man City, Arsenal and even Burnley all score a lot of goals this way. And we have just joined the "half-space cutback" club.

 

EDIT: Actually to be honest in this example he is not attacking the half space, but that will be the next evolution of this type of move.

 

 

 cmon

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, Tielemans63 said:

Really hope Enzo is the man who is brave enough to drop Vardy and make Nacho the main man.

Really?  I didn't think he was that great - certainly i'm not going to compare their performances from the two games.  Nacho had a decent game, he scored an inspired goal and his cut back was good, but beyond that i thought he was pretty wasteful - i know that it didn't really matter in the end, but we'll play much better teams than burton and, as we saw from his 2nd woeful backheel, he doesn't always pick the right option and should have had a brace.  If i'm honest, i feel like between the three of them combined we have one decent striker .

 

Sorry, to be a bummer on this, but i feel like none of our strikers are quite right for this system - vardy can't hold the ball up, nacho is too inconsistent, and, well, daka, just seems to have bombed.

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Part of Tactics is coaching your players so that they can play the role they are given to the best of their ability in the tactical system.

 

Ndidi has always been a poor finisher, and someone with a heavy touch. But if you coach players in the proper manner, you can improve them. Open up your body, wrap the side of your foot round the ball and guide it into the net...

 

 

One swallow doesn't make a summer, but that is a top quality finish, no two ways about it! And that's 3 goals in 1.5 games from attacking midfielders attacking the half space. I'd also like to draw your attention to the way that Iheanacho attracts three Burton defenders towards him, then makes the cutback for an "easy" finish. Man City, Arsenal and even Burnley all score a lot of goals this way. And we have just joined the "half-space cutback" club.

 

EDIT: Actually to be honest in this example he is not attacking the half space, but that will be the next evolution of this type of move.

 

 

Ndidi may not be in the half space, but he's in exactly the right place, and thank goodness, cause nacho has hopelessly overran this, his first touch is poor.  It's a great finish but the defending is horribly naive, but definitely good to see that the system means we can take advantage of such sloppiness-

[STUHILL]

It is going to take time and we are definitely a few key players short, to really make the system work in terms of creating chances. 

However, you can see the players are buying into it, and the fitness levels have definitely improved. 

I am simply loving the positivity Enzo has brought, and just shows how desperate we all were for a big reset. 

[WigstonWanderer]

I’m no expert on tactics, and initially thought the playing around at the back reminded me of Rodgers. However it is now becoming clearer (to me) that this is very different.

 

- The players seem to be buying into the style, constantly wanting the ball and making themselves available to receive.

- There is a much higher percentage of one-touch passing, followed by movement, rather than standing around waiting for the ball.

- The passing around seems much more purposeful, attempting to lure opponents out of position whilst constantly looking for forward options.

- When we lose the ball, we press hard to get it back and regain control immediately. The players look fitter.

 

It’s still clearly a work in progress and there are some concerns.

 

- Will it work against higher quality teams that press hard? To my mind this has been one of our weaknesses in recent times. We look fine until the opposition press hard, then fall apart.

- Are we capable of creating sufficient chances as well as looking classy?

- Will we get caught out too often at the back when the passing around goes wrong? We don’t have Man City quality players, and there are bound to be mistakes.

 

Great to have a new and exciting style, and to this untutored eye, first impressions are very encouraging.

 

Edited 10 August 2023 by WigstonWanderer

[Sparrowhawk]

4 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Will we get caught out too often at the back when the passing around goes wrong? We don’t have Man City quality players, and there are bound to be mistakes

It's bound to happen. Hopefully not too often!

Also, there may well be the odd game where it all goes tits up and we lose heavily (happens to Man City every now and then) - let's hope if it does happen it doesn't cause too much negativity!

 

(Although seeing as it looks like there was plenty of negativity on the match thread last night - for one of the most comfortably one-sided matches I've ever seen! Did our keeper make a single save? - I'm not too hopeful...)

[Sparrowhawk]

9 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

Sorry, to be a bummer on this, but i feel like none of our strikers are quite right for this system - vardy can't hold the ball up, nacho is too inconsistent, and, well, daka, just seems to have bombed.

Ach - who needs strikers anyway? Just fill the team with tidy little midfielders who buzz around swapping positions like a swarm of annoying little bees until the opposition get dizzy so that one of them can nip through to get on the end of a move and score!

[Simmo86]

What we did from kickoff last night was unbelievable. Best football I’ve seen us play in years. 

[RowlattsFox]

I've been impressed so far, but I feel we do need some more variety and hopefully that comes with new signings. Options for a forward pass into the strikers and attacking Midfielders need to be better. 

 

Most impressive thing for me is that the players appear to be enjoying it and want to have the ball. 

 

 

[foxfanazer]

What type of striker do we think would thrive in this system? A poacher type? Someone to link up the play from deep? 

 

I'm undecided 

[RowlattsFox]

2 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

What type of striker do we think would thrive in this system? A poacher type? Someone to link up the play from deep? 

 

I'm undecided 

Probably depends who the wingers are. With our current options I think a hold up and link man would be better. 

[Guest Col city fan]

22 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

What type of striker do we think would thrive in this system? A poacher type? Someone to link up the play from deep? 

 

I'm undecided 

A striker who can collect the ball at the edge of the opposition area and hold it up for oncoming midfielders would look great in this system. 
A type of striker who can lay it off, then spin the defender to get in behind, would be ideal.