Tactics Under Maresca

[davieG]

3 points is always welcomed but uninspiring from the players too many loose balls and haphazard play. Need faster more triangular play once we get into their half.

[DionDublinsThirdLeg]

Tactically we dominated the game, we were let down by individuals not having the end product in the final third. Thought Faes and Vestergaard were our best players and showed why Maresca is playing both. We need more composure from Doyle, gave the ball away too many times. Not sure Pereira works where he wants him, not good enough on the ball or physical enough, he was bullied at times. Then there's Praet who doesn't look fit enough, Madvidua with no end product, Iheanacho trying too much and KDH too lacking end product.

 

Opposite problems from last few seasons. We're tactically strong now, but our individual quality is weak. Would've loved to see Maresca with Tielemans/Maddison/Soyuncu etc. We need to back him this week, with at least two in before Cardiff, or we could start dropping points that we shouldn't. 

[Kinowe Soorie]

He’s been here 5 minutes, still lots of deadwood players here. 3 wins out of 3.

[StanSP]

I do like how Mavididi will just constantly hug the wing. And I imagine whoever plays there if he isn't available, will be asked to do the same.

 

It allows KDH the space as the LCM because the opposition RB will be watchful of Mavididi, but then creates a channel for KDH to run into, or a second runner from midfield or even Doyle. 

 

I've noticed as well how much space is manufactured anyway for Winks and KDH. They're the technicians and ball-players, so others will do the hard yards off the ball while they create from deep. The only piece missing is where Praet played today, and where Casadei will perfectly fit in. Especially when you see the two chances Praet had, more-so the first one when he was played in to space one on one with the keeper.

 

It wasn't pretty today because some of the passing was loose but we're still playing players out of position. Ndidi as a CAM/RW won't be forever (hopefully!) and once we get a better RW starter (with McAteer and WMM as back-up) I think we'll see much more fluent and prettier football. 

[funkyrobot]

8 minutes ago, DionDublinsThirdLeg said:

Tactically we dominated the game, we were let down by individuals not having the end product in the final third. Thought Faes and Vestergaard were our best players and showed why Maresca is playing both. We need more composure from Doyle, gave the ball away too many times. Not sure Pereira works where he wants him, not good enough on the ball or physical enough, he was bullied at times. Then there's Praet who doesn't look fit enough, Madvidua with no end product, Iheanacho trying too much and KDH too lacking end product.

 

Opposite problems from last few seasons. We're tactically strong now, but our individual quality is weak. Would've loved to see Maresca with Tielemans/Maddison/Soyuncu etc. We need to back him this week, with at least two in before Cardiff, or we could start dropping points that we shouldn't. 

Sorry initially got mixed up with Mavididi but Wanya needs time, he looked good against Burton

Edited 12 August 2023 by funkyrobot

[LinekersLugs]

seems to be a lucky manager 

 

lucky managers are often very very good to have 

 

still feel we lack the player quality to make his tactics effective consistently 

 

so much of today was simply keep ball 

 

is it entertaining ? NOT YET 

 

Will it be entertaining ? YES if the give Enzo the tool over the next 2 or 3 windows 

 

 

[Chrysalis]

Just now, LinekersLugs said:

seems to be a lucky manager 

 

lucky managers are often very very good to have 

 

still feel we lack the player quality to make his tactics effective consistently 

 

so much of today was simply keep ball 

 

is it entertaining ? NOT YET 

 

Will it be entertaining ? YES if the give Enzo the tool over the next 2 or 3 windows 

 

 

Well its not the same as rodgers ball, there is a very evident change as matt said, instead of just passing it in front of goal for 60 minutes every match we do at least pass forward now.

[StriderHiryu]

3 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

The more I watch us the more I see elements more of De Zerbi in Enzo’s ideology than Pep - in terms of slowing the play down, walking/standing on the ball, baiting a team out of their shape and looking to transition into the spaces they leave. 

 

But that being said, even Pep is going in that direction if last night is anything to go by. De Zerbi is changing the game.

 

@StriderHiryu thoughts?

It definitely does have more of that feel to it so far. I think it's worth posting this video again as it's highly relevant.

 

 

At the same time, this team is so so early into it's execution of the system. This thread will be a lot of fun to read back at the end of the season as should see the evolution of it over time. I will write up some stuff later, but from a tactical point of view, this was a very interesting match, even if the action was really lackluster.

 

What I'm saying is that when the attacking part of the team is better settled with the right players and have had time to play with one another for a while, we might see less Jannick Vestergaard standing on the ball for 30 seconds at a time waiting for something to happen. But equally, maybe we won't! It looks strange but at the same time if no one is going to do anything, why not just stand there and wait for something to happen!

 

I find it some aspects of our play quite funny! I play a lot of fighting games like Street Fighter, and in games like that you get similar situations where a player can decide basically not to do anything and force the opponent to take the initiative. Sometimes it feels like we are doing the equivalent, and then the team who's patience wears thin first ends up on the losing side.

 

I just hope we have more up our sleeves than just waiting for the other team to move, and I think in time we will. But this is the core idea Maresca has chosen to work on first and I would say the thing it has definitely had a big impact on already is our defence. Southampton conceeded 4 goals today. Against Coventry we did ride our luck, but first half they didn't look like scoring either. Goals win games, but clean sheets win Championships, so I think it's a good place to start.

 

I can see the groans and boos at the KP if we are as lethargic as today though!

[LinekersLugs]

Just now, Chrysalis said:

Well its not the same as rodgers ball, there is a very evident change as matt said, instead of just passing it in front of goal for 60 minutes every match we do at least pass forward now.

Yes I agree it’s better to watch than Rodger’s style 

 

but it’s not exactly entertaining yet 

 

but in fairness he is working with questionable abilities 

[Matt]

1 minute ago, LinekersLugs said:

seems to be a lucky manager 

 

lucky managers are often very very good to have 

 

still feel we lack the player quality to make his tactics effective consistently 

 

so much of today was simply keep ball 

 

is it entertaining ? NOT YET 

 

Will it be entertaining ? YES if the give Enzo the tool over the next 2 or 3 windows 

 

 

Nothing compares to the last few seasons regarding 'keep ball', it's entertaining ten-fold.

 

14 goal attempts.

6 on goal.

 

The previous regime would have been spitting feathers at that.

 

[StriderHiryu]

3 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said:

still feel we lack the player quality to make his tactics effective consistently 

 

so much of today was simply keep ball 

 

is it entertaining ? NOT YET 

 

Will it be entertaining ? YES if the give Enzo the tool over the next 2 or 3 windows 

 

 

Great summary. That's how I would sum it up too.

 

I know a lot of people are calling me a Maresca hipster for this thread! But I'll call a spade a spade, that Huddersfield game at times was hard to watch. But even in a performance like that, I saw some good moves, the vertical transition move that led to the Praet chance was beautiful and I will post that later if someone else doesn't.

 

The time to make judgements will be around Christmas time. Even then we shouldn't be anywhere near perfect, but we should be a lot better than we are now. And I think we will be!

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Nothing compares to the last few seasons regarding 'keep ball', it's entertaining ten-fold.

 

14 goal attempts.

6 on goal.

 

The previous regime would have been spitting feathers at that.

 

Laughing because it's sadly true!

 

[Aleksz]

4 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

It definitely does have more of that feel to it so far. I think it's worth posting this video again as it's highly relevant.

 

 

At the same time, this team is so so early into it's execution of the system. This thread will be a lot of fun to read back at the end of the season as should see the evolution of it over time. I will write up some stuff later, but from a tactical point of view, this was a very interesting match, even if the action was really lackluster.

 

What I'm saying is that when the attacking part of the team is better settled with the right players and have had time to play with one another for a while, we might see less Jannick Vestergaard standing on the ball for 30 seconds at a time waiting for something to happen. But equally, maybe we won't! It looks strange but at the same time if no one is going to do anything, why not just stand there and wait for something to happen!

 

I find it some aspects of our play quite funny! I play a lot of fighting games like Street Fighter, and in games like that you get similar situations where a player can decide basically not to do anything and force the opponent to take the initiative. Sometimes it feels like we are doing the equivalent, and then the team who's patience wears thin first ends up on the losing side.

 

I just hope we have more up our sleeves than just waiting for the other team to move, and I think in time we will. But this is the core idea Maresca has chosen to work on first and I would say the thing it has definitely had a big impact on already is our defence. Southampton conceeded 4 goals today. Against Coventry we did ride our luck, but first half they didn't look like scoring either. Goals win games, but clean sheets win Championships, so I think it's a good place to start.

 

I can see the groans and boos at the KP if we are as lethargic as today though!

There’s a difference between Lethargy and this whole idea of waiting and baiting a team out though, and our fans are going to need to realise that.

[LinekersLugs]

Just now, Matt said:

Nothing compares to the last few seasons regarding 'keep ball', it's entertaining ten-fold.

 

14 goal attempts.

6 on goal.

 

The previous regime would have been spitting feathers at that.

 

I’m not going to defend him and in essence I agree 

 

but Matt it’s a shocking huddersfield we were playing and we were toothless and a little boring to watch with many miss places 

 

and last weekend he was in a Celtic dug out that team had 18 shots and 12 on target 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

 

Enzo needs backing and he needs quality players who can pass … our passing for a number of years has been awful,

mainly because our recruitment has been dire 

[LinekersLugs]

3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Great summary. That's how I would sum it up too.

 

I know a lot of people are calling me a Maresca hipster for this thread! But I'll call a spade a spade, that Huddersfield game at times was hard to watch. But even in a performance like that, I saw some good moves, the vertical transition move that led to the Praet chance was beautiful and I will post that later if someone else doesn't.

 

The time to make judgements will be around Christmas time. Even then we shouldn't be anywhere near perfect, but we should be a lot better than we are now. And I think we will be!

He is working with a number of individuals who are struggling to adapt (that’s me being polite)

 

If he had hair it Would be pulled out 

 

we need to support him and give him a platform 

[Jaspa]

Might aswell drop this here too -

 

https://twitter.com/markstatsbot/status/1690392601529286656

[CosbehFox]

10 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said:

seems to be a lucky manager 

 

lucky managers are often very very good to have 

 

still feel we lack the player quality to make his tactics effective consistently 

 

so much of today was simply keep ball 

 

is it entertaining ? NOT YET 

 

Will it be entertaining ? YES if the give Enzo the tool over the next 2 or 3 windows 

 

 

Bang on LL. He needs some better tools to get an attacking edge. 

[Foxin_Mad]

3 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said:

 

and last weekend he was in a Celtic dug out that team had 18 shots and 12 on target 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

 

Team probably still playing the Ange way with Ange players. Give it 2 years he will get rid of to much attacking intent. 

[volpeazzurro]

23 minutes ago, DionDublinsThirdLeg said:

Tactically we dominated the game, we were let down by individuals not having the end product in the final third. Thought Faes and Vestergaard were our best players and showed why Maresca is playing both. We need more composure from Doyle, gave the ball away too many times. Not sure Pereira works where he wants him, not good enough on the ball or physical enough, he was bullied at times. Then there's Praet who doesn't look fit enough, Madvidua with no end product, Iheanacho trying too much and KDH too lacking end product.

 

Opposite problems from last few seasons. We're tactically strong now, but our individual quality is weak. Would've loved to see Maresca with Tielemans/Maddison/Soyuncu etc. We need to back him this week, with at least two in before Cardiff, or we could start dropping points that we shouldn't. 

Don't think would ever get bad enough to want lazyboy chubby chops Tielemans back, even on a free, good riddance!

[WoodyFox]

25 minutes ago, davieG said:

3 points is always welcomed but uninspiring from the players too many loose balls and haphazard play. Need faster more triangular play once we get into their half.

Basically how we played last season just getting away with it against lesser opponents 

[Chrysalis]

5 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said:

He is working with a number of individuals who are struggling to adapt (that’s me being polite)

 

If he had hair it Would be pulled out 

 

we need to support him and give him a platform 

Yep, I do agree, we employ this type of manager, he needs to be given the right tools.

[Simmo86]

3 minutes ago, WoodyFox said:

Basically how we played last season just getting away with it against lesser opponents 

It’s nothing like last season 

[LinekersLugs]

6 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Team probably still playing the Ange way with Ange players. Give it 2 years he will get rid of to much attacking intent. 

That’s actually probably very true 

 

but his style in the Scottish league differed from his champions league style with them 

 

we ended up with a hybrid of that , and in the end we all got bored watching it 

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, LinekersLugs said:

I’m not going to defend him and in essence I agree 

 

but Matt it’s a shocking huddersfield we were playing and we were toothless and a little boring to watch with many miss places 

 

and last weekend he was in a Celtic dug out that team had 18 shots and 12 on target 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

 

Enzo needs backing and he needs quality players who can pass … our passing for a number of years has been awful,

mainly because our recruitment has been dire 

It's gonna be boring at times, teams are sit back, teams are gonna make it hard for us.

 

Tbh, i'm not sure Huddersfield actually did make it boring (by sitting back) or making it hard for us (Let's not sound like Pep, Rodri or Klopp claiming "they didn't play how we wanted them to play"), they sounded pretty expansive and certainly not exactly defensive.

 

That's what I can't get my head around the last 2 seasons though, we weren't a good side, teams didn't sit back, yet we played this tepid possession ball on the edge of our own box to 'draw teams out' whilst making no attempt whatsoever to go forward, I understand the reasoning and theory this season, but the past 2 seasons, nonsense.

 

Celtic? In the Scottish Pub League? No challengers, so they fucking should have.

 

[Lambert09]

We haven’t even had a proper chance to see what mavididi can do because team are already focusing on keeping him out of the game because we just have kids on the right. 

 

Ridiculous amount of space given to wanya today, it was the same for mcateer. If we get the rw decision correct, teams are in trouble