Tactics Under Maresca

[FoxesWalk]

Given Maresca is a bit of a football hipster in the Pep mold, I can see him trying to replicate something like this by bringing in more of a physical presence in place of Daka (assuming he moves on). He admitted post match vs Huddersfield that we struggle vs pressing and found it “easier” once they sat back. 

 

 

Edited 21 August 2023 by FoxesWalk

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

5 hours ago, Lesta Legend said:

At the moment Mavididi is in the top ten for progressive carries and progressive passes received in the league with KDH our next best player, no surprise he has two goals! The importance that we get a right side player that can drive at players like Stephy cannot be underestimated, with second best possession we need to get the ball up more quickly to create more chances to take advantage of the higher possession and not go back to the Todgers ball we've been used to.

I would imagine Cesare will positively effect our attacking stats as Wilf very rarely go into the opponents box, its not in his nature.

The stats seem to slow mavididi as being very active. But I want him more active still. He cuts inside far too much, I want to see him just run at defenders. Then get the same on the other side. He did it a few times the other day and the last ten minutes first day of the season, but it needs to be his first thought

[Dames]

21 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

Hardly a smoking gun...  Sorry, i'll continue to incline to a more rational everyday explanation, this reply is deeply ambiguous and certainly doesn't suggest a battle as the OP suggested, merely that, naturally, he's frustrated but he's hardly beating his chest and throwing his toys out the pram.  "Frustration" doesn't automatically equal "Conflict".

 

And if he had denied it, it would simply prompt claims that he's lying, he can't win, which is probably why he offered this sardonic reply.

 

Can we drop this now, no one cares - we're winning, the tactics are working, the subs bench is finally being used well - all is good, let's drop the shitstiring.

The fact he's refused to deny it as well as on several occasions been very cagey/cryptic with his answers in relation to it as well as pulling the stunt on two separate occasions lends a lot of credence to the theory.

 

It hasn't been dropped is because a lot of posters were just calling the theory rubbish despite the mounting evidence. If it were rubbish the manager wouldn't be so cagey and he would give an insightful answer as to why he feels the need to have two keepers on the bench provides him with a tactical advantage. He's usually so straightforward and blunt with his answers (which is refreshing) which makes this even more odd. The 'not dignifying' it with an answer response wont wash either. People are clearly interested in why the manager feels it is tactically beneficial to the squad to have 2 keepers on the bench in 2 consecutive games.

 

 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

On 21/08/2023 at 11:14, Stadt said:

Only a few games in but we're 17th for xG, with the players we have it's awfully low. We need to let loose rather than constrict our play so much, we don't have an ideal first XI yet but much worse sides than us (on paper) are managing.

 

https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/Championship-Stats

 

 

Personally feel the Xg stat needs binning. 

 

It's not about the quality of chances you create its about the goals you score. 

 

I'd be happy winning each game with goals that shouldn't be goals if you were to look at it Xg wise. 

 

It doesn't give you points or do you any favours, it's a totally pointless stat that is made up and plucked from nowhere. A 1 on 1 with one player (Preat) against a 1 on 1 with another (Vardy) would have the same Xg but in reality we know they are not the same. Same with shots from distance different players different ability's but the stat is the stat based on distance and angle. Silly. 

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, browniefox said:

Personally feel the Xg stat needs binning. 

 

It's not about the quality of chances you create its about the goals you score. 

 

I'd be happy winning each game with goals that shouldn't be goals if you were to look at it Xg wise. 

 

It doesn't give you points or do you any favours, it's a totally pointless stat that is made up and plucked from nowhere. A 1 on 1 with one player (Preat) against a 1 on 1 with another (Vardy) would have the same Xg but in reality we know they are not the same. Same with shots from distance different players different ability's but the stat is the stat based on distance and angle. Silly. 

Also, I don't think it takes in defenders positions. A shot from ten yards with no one near you is the same as if you get crowded out by 3 defenders. A header from a corner, from the same position can vary in reality from being almost impossible to score to almost impossible to miss but counts the same. You can round a goalkeeper and try to better the angle to slide it into an open goal but if you get tackled during that it doesn't even count as a goal scoring opportunity.

[Simmo86]

14 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

Also, I don't think it takes in defenders positions. A shot from ten yards with no one near you is the same as if you get crowded out by 3 defenders. A header from a corner, from the same position can vary in reality from being almost impossible to score to almost impossible to miss but counts the same. You can round a goalkeeper and try to better the angle to slide it into an open goal but if you get tackled during that it doesn't even count as a goal scoring opportunity.

Also that it doesn't take the player into account makes it completely pointless, Kel and Jannick getting the same XG for the same shot 12 yards out makes zero sense to me.

[Stadt]

[The Quick Brown Fox]

3 hours ago, Simmo86 said:

Also that it doesn't take the player into account makes it completely pointless, Kel and Jannick getting the same XG for the same shot 12 yards out makes zero sense to me.

That was my point above. Such a silly stat people throw about to make a point. 

[fuchsntf]

5 hours ago, Dames said:

The fact he's refused to deny it as well as on several occasions been very cagey/cryptic with his answers in relation to it as well as pulling the stunt on two separate occasions lends a lot of credence to the theory.

 

It hasn't been dropped is because a lot of posters were just calling the theory rubbish despite the mounting evidence. If it were rubbish the manager wouldn't be so cagey and he would give an insightful answer as to why he feels the need to have two keepers on the bench provides him with a tactical advantage. He's usually so straightforward and blunt with his answers (which is refreshing) which makes this even more odd. The 'not dignifying' it with an answer response wont wash either. People are clearly interested in why the manager feels it is tactically beneficial to the squad to have 2 keepers on the bench in 2 consecutive games.

 

 

One thing is for sure…its not tactical genius..Unless during the season he wants to show he can swap out also GKs

Being Leicester bred I won’t dither…he’s an occasional knob-head, not wanting to show he’s got it wrong in wasting  a space for outfield player…Does not mean,Enzo isn’t cut from the right stuff,  to get 90% right…The 1% we can forgive..or the other way around..Time will tell..

[Simmo86]

56 minutes ago, browniefox said:

That was my point above. Such a silly stat people throw about to make a point. 

XG fanboys will never admit it’s got any flaws though 

[blaaklint]

6 hours ago, messerschmitt said:

Also, I don't think it takes in defenders positions. A shot from ten yards with no one near you is the same as if you get crowded out by 3 defenders. A header from a corner, from the same position can vary in reality from being almost impossible to score to almost impossible to miss but counts the same. You can round a goalkeeper and try to better the angle to slide it into an open goal but if you get tackled during that it doesn't even count as a goal scoring opportunity.

The better models (or at least Opta and Statsbomb) do in fact take into account defender positioning.

[RumbleFox]

Lolz 

[Dan LCFC]

14 hours ago, Simmo86 said:

Also that it doesn't take the player into account makes it completely pointless, Kel and Jannick getting the same XG for the same shot 12 yards out makes zero sense to me.

That's the distinction and why it's a good metric for judging who is an effective finisher and who isn't.

[st albans fox]

When the window shuts he will have to reassess the personnel and the system 

 

winks and Ricky cannot play 46 league games 

 

he may have to review which games he wants which players for and plan accordingly 

 

obvs he wants to have quality back up everywhere but it’s simply not going to happen - will be a test for him. As opposed to last summer I hope he wipes his hands together and then gets on with it (rather than moaning and looking at what he doesn’t have ) 

[SecretPro]

I've just spent the last 2 days going through this thread as I'm finding under Maresca I'm becoming much more interested in tactics than I have been for quite some time. I'm actually positively enjoying looking at the tactical side of the game more and more and it's definitely added an extra layer to my enjoyment on matchdays.  @StriderHiryu Thank you for such detailed and inclusive discussion - it's been a great read!

 

Did notice there's a few posts on here which amount to 'meh, tactics'. Can anybody really truly enjoy or understand football without thinking tactically? Is that a thing? My old man is very much "get everyone in the box and lump it and score" which I accept maybe a generational thing, but posters on here saying tactics are overblown and boring? Really?

 

Anyway, as you were.

 

 

[davieG]

51 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

I've just spent the last 2 days going through this thread as I'm finding under Maresca I'm becoming much more interested in tactics than I have been for quite some time. I'm actually positively enjoying looking at the tactical side of the game more and more and it's definitely added an extra layer to my enjoyment on matchdays.  @StriderHiryu Thank you for such detailed and inclusive discussion - it's been a great read!

 

Did notice there's a few posts on here which amount to 'meh, tactics'. Can anybody really truly enjoy or understand football without thinking tactically? Is that a thing? My old man is very much "get everyone in the box and lump it and score" which I accept maybe a generational thing, but posters on here saying tactics are overblown and boring? Really?

 

Anyway, as you were.

 

 

I'm like you with this new interest in tactics but I was never a get everyone in the box. My enjoyment has always come from individual actions/events and displays of individual skills.

A player dribbling and beating a man ala George Best

Immaculate ball control ala Mahrez

Coupled with game changing long ball passes

Speeding interplay 1,2s etc moving the ball and the team swiftly up the pitch

Volleyed shots / goals

Diving headed goals

Sliding tackle taking the ball off a players foot without touching them.

Players that look like they're having fun interacting with the fans and enjoying the game

 

To name but a few.

[Dan LCFC]

I just don't think there's truly an appreciation of what's being attempted at times. I mean the perfect example was that Doyle chance where a few passes at the back, which the commentator even said "Leicester are boxed in" when we absolutely weren't, was what allowed us the space to attack them further up the pitch.

 

I hate pointless passing around the back ala Puel / Rodgers as much as anybody but when there is a purpose to it then it can be great. It's like De Zerbi football where he will achieve both controlling possession yet looking like his attacks are counter attacks. Breaking down teams in our own half rather than theirs.

[SecretPro]

9 minutes ago, davieG said:

I'm like you with this new interest in tactics but I was never a get everyone in the box. My enjoyment has always come from individual actions/events and displays of individual skills.

A player dribbling and beating a man ala George Best

Immaculate ball control ala Mahrez

Coupled with game changing long ball passes

Speeding interplay 1,2s etc moving the ball and the team swiftly up the pitch

Volleyed shots / goals

Diving headed goals

Sliding tackle taking the ball off a players foot without touching them.

Players that look like they're having fun interacting with the fans and enjoying the game

 

To name but a few.

Oh yes, all of those things excite me to, and that's where the majority of my enjoyment comes from - I guess football is a 'spectacle' - I just find it odd that some people are so dismissive of the tactics which makes a lot of these things possible. I was partially blind to it too, I guess Pep has bought a lot of attention on the tactical side of the game over the last 6/7 years which helps.

Edited 23 August 2023 by SecretPro

[Lillehamring]

On 22/08/2023 at 16:20, Simmo86 said:

Also that it doesn't take the player into account makes it completely pointless, Kel and Jannick getting the same XG for the same shot 12 yards out makes zero sense to me.

Well, then you need to consider that xG isn't about the result of a chance which, yes, is dependent on the person on the ball.  xG is used for looking at the quality of chances a team is making - having a high xG means you are creating better more makable chances, but it's only really relevant when compared to actual goals.  There are plenty of other 'expected' stats, including stats that look at a players ability to convert the chance.  

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, SecretPro said:

I've just spent the last 2 days going through this thread as I'm finding under Maresca I'm becoming much more interested in tactics than I have been for quite some time. I'm actually positively enjoying looking at the tactical side of the game more and more and it's definitely added an extra layer to my enjoyment on matchdays.  @StriderHiryu Thank you for such detailed and inclusive discussion - it's been a great read!

 

Did notice there's a few posts on here which amount to 'meh, tactics'. Can anybody really truly enjoy or understand football without thinking tactically? Is that a thing? My old man is very much "get everyone in the box and lump it and score" which I accept maybe a generational thing, but posters on here saying tactics are overblown and boring? Really?

 

Anyway, as you were.

 

 

Which, oddly, in simplified terms, is the essence of Maresca's tactics 

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/enzo-maresca-given-ominous-leicester-8702570

 

Why Enzo Maresca has given ominous Leicester City warning despite perfect start
A closer look at the numbers behind Leicester City's Championship performances which explain why the manager may be cautious despite three wins from three games

ByJordan Blackwell
16:27, 24 AUG 2023

Leicester City have a perfect record and yet manager Enzo Maresca is warning that "defeats will arrive".

He may just want to keep everybody’s feet on the ground amid City’s best-ever start to a campaign, but it’s also likely that he is aware of the underlying numbers of the club’s performances, which show that, unless improvements are made, the winning run won’t continue.

Let’s start with the attack. To get goals, you need to take shots, and City are doing that at a decent rate. They rank fourth in the division for number of efforts, and second for shots on target.

But look a little closer and they are not creating the big chances that others might be. From open play, City’s expected goals tally is only the 13th best in the division, and so in the bottom half.

That’s in part because the shots they are taking are coming from range too often. They are one of eight teams whose average shot distance is more than 18 yards.

This could be a case of poor shot selection, but it is more likely an indicator of their ability to break defences down and get into the penalty area. Maresca has said multiple times that it’s in the box where things happen, but City aren’t getting there often enough.

Only Southampton have completed more passes than City have over the first three games, and yet there are 11 clubs that have completed more passes and crosses into the box. City’s tally of 26 pales in comparison to the 62 times Blackburn have managed to get a pass or cross into the area. And this is not because City are dribbling the ball into the box, albeit they do fare slightly better there, ranking ninth.

In all, only five teams have a lower proportion of their touches inside the opposition’s box. Right now, City are not making best use of their domination of possession. It’s clear they are struggling to get into the most dangerous areas regularly.

That is why Maresca is so keen to get new wingers in, players who excel in one-on-ones and so can disrupt the opposition’s defensive disorganisation.

Kelechi Iheanacho's play-style may also be having an impact, with the striker dropping deep to help the build-up phase, but then perhaps not providing a focal point inside the area to aim for. Maresca has been encouraging his number eights to get beyond the forward and into the area, but it doesn’t seem like it’s happening often enough at the moment.

 

Neither are City a particular threat from set-pieces at the moment. While Wanya Marcal’s goal against Cardiff came from a corner, City only rank 15th in the Championship for the quality of chances they have created from dead balls.

They aren’t conceding many though, which is pleasing. Kyle McFadzean’s header from a corner on the opening day had many supporters dreading another season of defensive set-piece chaos, but despite conceding plenty of corners, they’ve not given up many chances. By expected goals, they have the seventh-best record at defending dead balls.

But from open play, they have the seventh worst. It’s been clear to see in matches that when the opposition counter with efficiency, City struggle to keep them at bay, not possessing the right organisation or pace in the back-line to prevent teams from moving into dangerous positions from creating chances.

 

Despite a huge split in possession, City averaging two-thirds of the ball in their three matches, their opponents combined have completed 24 passes and crosses into their penalty area, just two fewer than they have managed themselves.

Aaron Ramsey’s long-range stunner may be the only open-play goal they’ve conceded but that’s only because of solid goalkeeping from Mads Hermansen and Jakub Stolarczyk, as well as some dreadful finishing. Opponents won’t keep missing chances.

The good news is that City are clearly not the finished product. Maresca started working with the players not even two months ago, and he estimates they are only 10 per cent of the way to the levels he believes they can reach. Only by making further progress will they be able to keep hold of one of the automatic promotion spots they currently occupy.

[winteriscoming]

I get what he’s trying to do. But we need a plan b. Side’s will get used to us even in the championship. Need to adapt. I just think we over pass for the sake of it. Keep it simple. 

[BenTheFox]

10 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

I get what he’s trying to do. But we need a plan b. Side’s will get used to us even in the championship. Need to adapt. I just think we over pass for the sake of it. Keep it simple. 

There is no 'plan B'. A lot of these modern managers simply don't have them. Their idea is to make 'plan A' even better. 

[blaaklint]

4 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

There is no 'plan B'. A lot of these modern managers simply don't have them. Their idea is to make 'plan A' even better. 

Better to have plan A working as you want before worrying about plan Bs. If your plan A is good enough, you shouldn't need anything else. Remains to be seen whether we'll ever get to that point though.

[winteriscoming]

46 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

There is no 'plan B'. A lot of these modern managers simply don't have them. Their idea is to make 'plan A' even better. 

That worked well under Rodgers last season……