Tactics Under Maresca

[StriderHiryu]

6 minutes ago, FoxTrott said:

Yeah -  you’re not wrong. It’s early days to say one way or another. These changes are part of a process. What makes me worried is that (1) we’ve not seen this tactic succeed at a lower league level (probably because of the reliance on individual brilliance) and (2) forward thinking, if we were to be promoted and use this style that EM has said he won’t change, are we just going to be pumped by most teams, week in week out. 
 

It’s too soon to say if this will or won’t work (and I really hope it does), but inflexibility is not a good trait in football management. (Bielsa comes to mind)

1). I don't think it's right to say it relies on individual brilliance, because that's not true. The idea behind it is that the sum of the parts can perform things that aren't expected, like what Brighton are showing in the Premier League right now. We have had to rely on individual brilliance up until now because the system is fresh and many new players are playing together for the first time. This would probably be the case with any manager and any tactic. Compare the team that finished last season to the one that started today's game.

 

2). This is a good topic for discussion, because Burnley have not changed the way they play since getting promoted and currently sit bottom of the table. A defeat to Man City is understandable but getting pumped at home to Villa and Spurs does raise question marks whether their style works in the top flight or not. That's a question for Leicester later in the season. I don't think he's said he won't change the tactics, he just won't change the style of play, IE that means he wants us to keep playing out from the back instead of say Moyes at West Ham who has gone back to a deep block and hitting on the counter. Both Pep and Klopp have changed their tactics many times, so I don't expect us to always play the same way, I just expect that for at least half the season till we get good at it.

 

 

Football is changing fast and a lot of our fan base are stuck in the past. Not one team we have played against this season played 442 against us, not even Neil Warnock at Huddersfield nor the two teams in the cup either. Teams don't really play direct any more because statistically it's not proved to work. Some people want to see us put two strikers up top for a plan B, but this system at times gets 5 attacking players into the box, which is about as aggressive as you will see in modern football.

 

If people want to see champagne football, it's going to take time to develop! Even if we played a more traditional style, there's no guarantee it would lead to better performances or results because we have a team of strangers. There aren't many shortcuts to success, you've got to spend hours on the pitch practising with one another to get it right.

 

 

[Scoop Dog]

I hope Maresca is given time like Pearson. Have a good feeling about this guy

[The_Rorab]

My biggest concern is simply the pervasive notion and mantra of "when we come good", comparing us to Burnley last year etc.

 

I should state I think it's likely a positive that we're trying to establish a distinct style of play, and I think in general the one we're attempting to create is a positive style that should allow us to generally have the better of teams.

 

I also think that it's way too soon in the season to be truly concerned, implementing what we are will obviously take time given the shambles of preseason and general squad instability amongst other things.

 

However every time I see someone say wait until we really kick into gear when we've adapted to it, or that we'll be brilliant when we've had time with the system I can't help but be concerned that we'll still be repeating that mantra of when it clicks it'll be amazing halfway through the season or more.

 

I do think we'll likely get better with the system, but there does seem to be an almost surety going round that at some point it will definitely all click and we'll canter to promotion.

 

Hopefully it will, and really this is all just a load of nothing really because we've started brilliantly points-wise even if performances have been a bit hit and miss, and it's off the back of only one loss. 

 

I really hope it does all click down the line but by no means do I think it's a surefire bet that we'll magically unlock HMS Piss the League mode after a while of adaptation.

 

We'll see how it goes in the next few games!

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Both fair assessments, and that is the argument against him - he's trying to play a style that our players (even with acquisitions) cannot play. And in time, that might even turn out to be true.

 

But as we are invested in his vision, we know it's going to take time. Burnley who won the Championship last time round did not start off results wise as good as we have. Frankly, I think people making decisions about his tactics now are short-termist and incredibly impatient. Two players made home debuts today, another one was in the stands who hasn't featured in the 18 man matchday squad yet! If we are struggling results and performance wise around 15-20 games into the season, then the argument against them is much stronger to make. He literally made the best ever start of any Leicester City manager, despite massive player turnover and a comedy tour to Asia in pre-season. I think he deserves some slack.

Arguably has the strongest squad any Leicester manager has had relative to the division they are in.

Even with the players that have left we have spent 44m coupled with numerous additional loans.

 

20/24 teams in this division have spent less that we purchased Cannon for.

Quite a few clubs spent nothing.

 

I hope things start to click soon, not been overly impressed this season. Need a talisman to start banging them in. 
You could see a result like this coming as we have been riding our luck.

I’d like to see Cannon start and to now and build for the future. 

[WigstonWanderer]

We’ve made the investment in the manager and players that he presumably has approved, so we now have to give him plenty of time to make it all work. It even took Pep a while to get his methods firing consistently at Man City. Very early days yet.

[eblair]

Aside from whether it will be effective or not.

 

Anyone else but bored watching us play, I don’t know what it is but have no excitement watching us play at the moment. Think goals we score, which are infrequent, are far too reliant on individual moments 

 

I miss watching us break quickly and playing ball through the middle for players to run on to. Everything is to feet

 

Think need to adjust to style but I am really struggling to enjoy the style we play at the moment 

[SecretPro]

At the end of the day we've lost one one game this season - the best start to a season in the clubs history. That's with a starting 11 that looks completely different to the last few years. I don't see how anybody can be calling out Maresca at this stage, whether the football is pretty or not.

[Hammo]

Rodgers was a ‘control’ freak, a rigid Plan A-er who could not - or, worse, refused to - adapt when other managers and teams sussed out him and his predictable style of play.

 

It’s early days, I know, and we have got off to a good start, but I can’t help but have the same fear about Maresca.

 

I sincerely hope it proves unfounded and that he will turn out to be more versatile, less obstinate and essentially more intelligent than his predecessor.

 

 

[westernpark]

I’ve been to or watched the majority games this season(bar Tranmere), can’t think of when he’s actually changed the system, seems to be just changing personnel instead.

[Claudio Fannieri]

There is nothing wrong with the system, even yesterday Hull looked dead on their feet and were literally just hoofing it anywhere and time wasting from pretty much the time they took the lead. What we were unable to do was capitalise from the countless opportunities we created where we got into great areas only for a player to make a poor choice or make the right choice but poor execution. 
 

I am enjoying watching us play, when we get it right the football is sublime and teams cannot cope with it. In every game we have had enough possession and territory advantage to blow teams away but so often our end product has not been quite there to mean we create a good goal scoring opportunity. 
 

I think with the quality of players we have been able to sign and more time he works with the players we will only improve. 
 

it isn’t perfect and can be frustrating but have a look at how many unforced errors there were, KDH is a prime example, gets into great positions but then makes a more pass or decision and the move breaks down, that isn’t the tactics that is individuals.

[Paninistickers]

The line of 'best ever start, 4 wins from 5 games' is incredibly weak and binary. 

 

There are plenty on here who've been calling it out for weeks that a defeat is coming and to fix the issues before it happens. 

 

The dogged persistence with a formula is for weak teams, not strong. Weak teams need a default formula to cling on tom We need to be let off the leash. There were the first signs yesterday when the Lisbon lad came on and crowd and players alike were looking to give him the ball at any opportunity. 

 

The persistence with the wide lads -  Macateer (who was ok yesterday) tbf, Mavdidi (who's weak all roind) and the Turkish lad (looks.limited) - all  aren't at the same level as the rest of the players  is costing us. The persistence with only having one gear is costing us. 

 

It isn't a crime to play two up top. It isn't a crime to play overlapping or under lapping fullbacks. 

 

 

 

 

[sphericalfox]

There's no point in comparing to Burnley and what they did last year to what they are doing now. We've got a vastly superior team to Burnley when they were in the Championship. They didn't start off very well either, last year and then eventually clicked after a couple of months.

 

Currently they are getting hammered playing the same tactics. They've also had 14 new players. If you look at that list, I'm going to be honest it's not a massively strong shopping list andt hey've also played some tough teams. It'll be impressive if in a few months Kompany can coral them into steadying the ship.

 

I've said previously that I didn't expect us to find some steady form until end of October. We've had 9 new players, and they'll take time to bed in, however the difference is Maresca said from the start that this is a 2-3 year project. If and when we do go up we'll need to bring players in, but we won't be shopping at the same level.

 

I've got faith that some reasonable level of continuity with some rotation to manage fatigue we'll hit a groove.

[ronnup]

12 hours ago, Mark said:

We were crying out for something different like an overlapping full back. Ricardo and Justin were brilliant at this a few years ago and in this league it does seem a waste, also makes the wingers job easier as it takes a player away. Why does the process have to be the same every time?

 

Be nice to think that instead of like for like replacements every time, he'd take a CB off and throw JJ on and change the system. It'd give the opposition something to think about , bur I don't see it happening 

[kristianity77]

It's not the fact for me that "we will lose sometimes, it's not playstation" that concerns me.  It's that generally I don't think we've played well yet in any game in the league.  Had we won 4 but done it looking like a convincing side you could understand an off day here and there.  But yesterday we were the same as before but our luck has run out.

 

We look decent going from defence to midfield, and from midfield up to about 30 yards from goal, but then we seem to have no clue as to what to do when everything condenses in front of us. Meaning we need to be bailed out late on in games by goals from midfield or like yesterday, we simply have no answers.

 

We had like 20 odd shots yesterday and I think their keeper made what, 2 saves all match? That's just no where near good enough. 

 

 

 

 

[Fazzer 7]

You've got to take your chances and there's no escaping the fact we miss far too many.

[Harpenden Fox]

10 minutes ago, kristianity77 said:

It's not the fact for me that "we will lose sometimes, it's not playstation" that concerns me.  It's that generally I don't think we've played well yet in any game in the league.  Had we won 4 but done it looking like a convincing side you could understand an off day here and there.  But yesterday we were the same as before but our luck has run out.

 

We look decent going from defence to midfield, and from midfield up to about 30 yards from goal, but then we seem to have no clue as to what to do when everything condenses in front of us. Meaning we need to be bailed out late on in games by goals from midfield or like yesterday, we simply have no answers.

 

We had like 20 odd shots yesterday and I think their keeper made what, 2 saves all match? That's just no where near good enough. 

 

 

 

 

For me we played better yesterday than any other game. It was simply that our shooting was atrocious.

[AjcW]

The international break will be very welcome I’m sure, for those who aren’t on duty it’s a chance to have a mini pre season with us and refine the tactics.
 

Two games to come will be open, no low blocks, end to end, will be really interesting to see how we fair against that. 
 

[Claudio Fannieri]

5 minutes ago, kristianity77 said:

It's not the fact for me that "we will lose sometimes, it's not playstation" that concerns me.  It's that generally I don't think we've played well yet in any game in the league.  Had we won 4 but done it looking like a convincing side you could understand an off day here and there.  But yesterday we were the same as before but our luck has run out.

 

We look decent going from defence to midfield, and from midfield up to about 30 yards from goal, but then we seem to have no clue as to what to do when everything condenses in front of us. Meaning we need to be bailed out late on in games by goals from midfield or like yesterday, we simply have no answers.

 

We had like 20 odd shots yesterday and I think their keeper made what, 2 saves all match? That's just no where near good enough. 

 

 

 

 

I understand the frustrations, however you cannot blame the tactics when we lose but when we win say we are bailed out by the midfield scoring. 
 

Every game we have won, we have deserved to win, we have been patient and basically bullied teams to a point where they are literally on their last legs and our quality has then shone through. Yesterday was very much the same pattern but our decision making and quality of final ball was off it yesterday so we didn’t take advantage. That was the big difference for me, we lacked quality in key areas and key moments, it will happen. 
 

Even the very best teams in the world have off days and don’t win games, anyone expecting us to drop into the championship and go and roll teams over 4-0 every week is deluded. 
 

Some of the passages and patterns of play this  season is some of the best football I have seen from a Leicester team but it’s early days and players will make mistakes, unfortunately for us yesterday the front 5 never really sparked with any quality with the exception.of Fatawu and that was the big difference. If we had just one or two moments where players had more care or made better decisions, we would be sat here on 15 points and everyone buzzing. 
 

we will have setbacks but it’s important we stick to the project, I am still excited and I believe we are going back to a good recruitment model, of signing a mix of good experienced players and young hungry players who will bring flair and excitement. Let’s give Maresca the same time and support as Pearson and I think we will see similar long term success and also have some great foundations for the future. 

[Livid]

I know we are not anywhere near where we need to be but it’s not an easy watch at the moment. There’s a definite pattern to our play that we haven’t had for a long time but it’s just not working as it should. 
 

We’ve got a number of new players bedding in and at times they don’t seem be on the same page. I took someone yesterday for their first time this season and they asked if we were playing worse than usual. I told them no and they were like Oh OK. 
 

We have had the results and I think people who haven’t really watched us just expect better. 

[Corky]

We've had weeks of uncertainty over the squad- that has gone now. Maresca is trying to find the personnel which suits. 

 

I like what we are trying to do but we need to be quicker when we counter attack and space is there. There's no lack of intent to get forward but slowing it down at times restricts us.

 

As I said in the post match thread, Casadei and Fatawu should be given a go from the start. I think they will speed up the play.

[StonyFox]

I think if we get to October and the system isn't looking like we're improving then we can worry. At the moment it's a new system, new players and a new manager so it will take time. 

 

Hull weren't better than us yesterday, they defended well and scored a goal doing what we should have done more of. They had possession at the back and quickly got it to their wide player in space. There were lots of times where Doyle or Faes had the ball yesterday and the opposite winger was in acres of space, but it then goes through the other two centre backs and the Hull block moved across to cover. If we could switch the play a bit quicker that would stretch teams more and free up space for the number 8s. 

 

Having Ricardo come inside every time makes it easier for the opposition to press. It might be worth him staying wide on occasions to overload the wide area. 

[adejo92]

1 hour ago, eblair said:

Aside from whether it will be effective or not.

 

Anyone else but bored watching us play, I don’t know what it is but have no excitement watching us play at the moment. Think goals we score, which are infrequent, are far too reliant on individual moments 

 

I miss watching us break quickly and playing ball through the middle for players to run on to. Everything is to feet

 

Think need to adjust to style but I am really struggling to enjoy the style we play at the moment 

Of course the odd glimpse of individual skill & brilliance gets you off your seat but for the majority of the game, it's some of most negative & boring football I've ever seen.

 

We are basically trying to carbon copy Man City, which I'm fine with, but they have the quality to play possession football and then find the cutting edge pass to a ruthless striker.

 

We lack the cutting edge and i think that's why we pass it around so much between midfield & defence because we lack the confidence and/or ability with the final ball.

 

I'm not saying the system won't work, but he'll have his work cut out making it work with this group of players, and until it does fall into place (if it ever does) it's going to be a hard watch.

Edited 3 September 2023 by adejo92

[Steve Earle]

Nothing novel yesterday, a game we could as easily have won as lost, as we won the previous four when each could have been lost.

 

Some points worth adding to the excellent posts above by @CosbehFox& @StriderHiryu

 

- Delap’s domination of Doyle ultimately proved the difference. [And just when you start enjoying life away from that rigged circus, you find you’re still watching Man City]. I wonder why Enzo didn’t give him more protection, either by moving Vesty closer at LCB or dropping McAteer deeper?

- KDH is looking increasingly like a fish out of water in this system, and I confess I thought it was tailor made for him at the start of the season. His basic ball skills and decision making just don’t appear good enough

- the lack of creativity noted by others is obviously true. I don’t buy into the ‘should have started with the wingers who finished’ argument. Mavididi & Fatuwu were impactful because, arguably, they were against tiring opponents. It’s great finally to have four wingers to rotate & compete!

- I’m looking forward already to this side’s evolution with Coady at the back and probably in time Praet & Casadei as the starting 8s

- Faes has been wildly inconsistent this season, from imperious to shocking and back again. Does he have issues with spatial awareness?

- no third keeper on the bench👏🏼And no Albrighton either ☹️

 

Onwards and upwards!

[Lesta Legend]

Anyone using the word concern after one loss and the best start to a season ever needs to give their head a wobble. 

 

From what I see we can only improve with the personnel we have and system in this league. Hull had 7 shots and the one of 4 that hit the target a deflected shot went in then proceeded to time waste and the referee has a howler, this isn't a game to start suggesting we need to change things. Yes we need to be more clinical but trusting the process allowing time is exactly what should be done after 6 bloody matches and a huge influx of players. Some fans can moan all they want I'm glad the manager will ignore them. 

 

Pre season was a shambles and we're now two days after the transfer deadline so the uncertainty of what our squad will look like has gone - unless Nacho or Wilf go to Saudi or Turkey - the point being we look very strong for this league. Maresca has done very well to get things working after a short period of time and wasn't help by the club with pre season preparation. I'll take the positives over the negatives as our start has overcome a few hurdles and I believe we'll get better. Also looking forward to Coady coming in and it's evident his leadership is second to none. 

 

With the personnel changes he makes during the game I'm confident he'll tweak the starting 11 right too i.e. assuming we'll see Casadei start as the 8. 

 

We've had success under these tactics already and with time I think we have the squad to improve further. Keep going and focus on the goal anything else is just noise. 

 

 

[Plastik Man]

50 minutes ago, kristianity77 said:

It's not the fact for me that "we will lose sometimes, it's not playstation" that concerns me.  It's that generally I don't think we've played well yet in any game in the league.  Had we won 4 but done it looking like a convincing side you could understand an off day here and there.  But yesterday we were the same as before but our luck has run out.

 

We look decent going from defence to midfield, and from midfield up to about 30 yards from goal, but then we seem to have no clue as to what to do when everything condenses in front of us. Meaning we need to be bailed out late on in games by goals from midfield or like yesterday, we simply have no answers.

 

We had like 20 odd shots yesterday and I think their keeper made what, 2 saves all match? That's just no where near good enough. 

 

 

 

 

I agree but I think with this new formation it is the defensive structure and midfield which develops first and the performance in the attacking third that will take longer to develop. 

 

There were some good signs now we have more wide options, and hopefully we will start to kick on.

 

I feel the defeat should at least avoid any complacency and only highlighted the areas we knew we're not yet fully functioning in.