Tactics Under Maresca

[lcfc sheff]

Will be interesting to see when we do eventually play two strikers, who will be the other one to compliment iheanacho as he looks to be the only one who’s got that capability. 
 

unless cannon has that in his locker but haven’t been able to see it in his highlights which are just his goals.

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, iancognito said:

There are people in this thread absolutely dying to have Brian Deane and Jamie Scowcroft flicking it on for Paul Dickov.

...there is no problem with that!!!

It is obvious that is not how we play, but they would be perfectly entitled to want to see their team play in a way that they have been accustomed to. I even enjoyed that type of football back in the day, very lively and got the crowd off its feet. There are thousands of people who are supporters of this club, We are all not the same, we may all just have one thing in common, no need to deride another supporter's view of the game.

[iancognito]

10 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

Too many people on here admiring 'The Emperors New Clothes' and thinking themselves oh so clever for doing so.

Let others have their opinions - (I, for one, enjoy being a dinosaur!)  - yuno their view may just be right.

 

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion including the ones you think are being oh so clever.

 

But there's a lot of lazy assumptions including that Enzoball and Rodgersball are two cheeks of the same arse and that we're knocking about with no progression or purpose. We had a very short pre-season interrupted by that stupid tour and the transfer window shenanigans with a new player added every few days can't have helped either. Hull has dampened spirits but the team is progressing game by game and the next month will give us far more idea of where we're headed

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Gubbins said:

I'm not having that Liverpool were a team with low possesion or didn't face countless low blocks yet they didn't play anything like man city and could overwhelm teams incl man city themselves.

 

The question was what tactics could we use other what we have been so far this season. If we are going to try and copy another side then I strongly believe we'd be more entertained and no worse off aping liverpools style rather than man city. It is more reliant on energy and fitness as opposed to technical skill which many of our players lack and as I said would be more useful in the prem assuming we go up. Playing the current style in the prem remotely successfully would require multiple expensive upgrades across the entire squad.

 

Norwich played a style similar to gegenpressing when Farke was in charge. They got out of the division and then got dumped back down after getting hammered regularly for playing that way in the top flight. David Wagner is trying to get them to do the same thing again this time round, and though they got off to a good start, they just lost to Rotherham.

 

However, you do raise a good point in that even if we get good at this new style in this division, there's no guarantee it works in the top flight. We will all be keeping a keen eye on Burnley this season to see if they stay up.

 

Regarding gegenpressing in general, though, it's lost it's wane in English football. Hassenhutl setup Southampton play that way and got relegated. Jesse Marsch tried it at Leeds. Ragnick at Man United. Liverpool use elements of it but have moved to more of a possession style. It's pretty likely Maresca is using these tactics because, as of right now, they work in modern football. There's no one winning tactic or even style of play in football, it changes all the time. We once proved you DON'T need the ball to win the league, but no counter attacking-team has won the league since Guardiola won his first title here.

 

5 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

Too many people on here admiring 'The Emperors New Clothes' and thinking themselves oh so clever for doing so.

Let others have their opinions - (I, for one, enjoy being a dinosaur!)  - yuno their view may just be right.

 

Nothing wrong with opinions, but people are making carte blanche statements about a team of players and style of play that have been in the door for 5 minutes. Any style of play or tactics will take time to bed in, especially with a ton of new recruits. Some of these new players are young lads and may have only just moved to England and Leicester for the first time. Expecting glorious, full throttle football from day one is totally unrealistic. But mind you, Dinosaurs had a brain the size of a pea, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that such a concept is difficult to grasp for some.

 

We should be giving the guy an absolute minimum of 15 games before passing any judgement. In fact, a lot of the clips posted in the thread show both what is good and not good about our play so far.

 

 

[pmcla26]

6 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...there is no problem with that!!!

Except from the fact that it just isn't very effective in this day and age with how football has developed tactically. 

[Dahnsouff]

24 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

Too many people on here admiring 'The Emperors New Clothes' and thinking themselves oh so clever for doing so.

Let others have their opinions - (I, for one, enjoy being a dinosaur!)  - yuno their view may just be right.

 

Even assuming you are right, why is that better or worse than harking back to older styles/times?

[sacreblueits442]

32 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Will be interesting to see when we do eventually play two strikers, who will be the other one to compliment iheanacho as he looks to be the only one who’s got that capability. 
 

unless cannon has that in his locker but haven’t been able to see it in his highlights which are just his goals.

...are we looking to play with two upfront!!!

Has Maresca stated that? It will be interesting if so, but I would be surprised if we went down that line.

[Apollo04]

This is hilarious.

 

You've got those pro or at least open to Enzo tactics analysing and explaining what we are trying to do and why, showing a balanced argument.

 

And those against offering no realistic alternative, harping on as if football hasnt evolved and backing it up with I'm entitled to my opinion. 

 

I should say of course people are entitled to their opinion, but it would be nice if it had some credible substance behind it.

 

Reminds me of something else 🤔 

Thank you to all those who break this stuff down so we can better understand what's happening, even if we don't all like it 👍

Edited 8 September 2023 by Apollo04

[Dusty]

1 hour ago, Gubbins said:

I'm not having that Liverpool were a team with low possesion or didn't face countless low blocks yet they didn't play anything like man city and could overwhelm teams incl man city themselves.

 

The question was what tactics could we use other what we have been so far this season. If we are going to try and copy another side then I strongly believe we'd be more entertained and no worse off aping liverpools style rather than man city. It is more reliant on energy and fitness as opposed to technical skill which many of our players lack and as I said would be more useful in the prem assuming we go up. Playing the current style in the prem remotely successfully would require multiple expensive upgrades across the entire squad.

If that high press Liverpool tactic focusing on energy and transition is so successful then why are Liverpool themselves not still doing it? And why have they decided to focus on a more possession based style? And why are there so few teams in England that are purely transition teams these days?

[messerschmitt]

2 hours ago, Gubbins said:

I'm not having that Liverpool were a team with low possesion or didn't face countless low blocks yet they didn't play anything like man city and could overwhelm teams incl man city themselves.

 

The question was what tactics could we use other what we have been so far this season. If we are going to try and copy another side then I strongly believe we'd be more entertained and no worse off aping liverpools style rather than man city. It is more reliant on energy and fitness as opposed to technical skill which many of our players lack and as I said would be more useful in the prem assuming we go up. Playing the current style in the prem remotely successfully would require multiple expensive upgrades across the entire squad.

I don't think we are copying Man City, More like Brighton, I think the Liverpool style would require far more multiple upgrades. Brighton have got where they are paying similar transfer fees as us.

[messerschmitt]

On a slightly different subject but still under the "Maresca Tactics", I feel a lot more confident going into the last 10 minutes of games. Even supporters who aren't fans of Maresca's tactics must think this is better than when we bought on another ineffective defender and camped in our own penalty area.

[The_77]

1 hour ago, SuperMike said:

Too many people on here admiring 'The Emperors New Clothes' and thinking themselves oh so clever for doing so.

Let others have their opinions - (I, for one, enjoy being a dinosaur!)  - yuno their view may just be right.

 

It’s only pompous when it comes from the other side, right? But most of the folks who are backing Enzo have been pretty reasonable in their assessments: many can see the obvious improvements and differences from the recent football we played under Rodgers while also acknowledging that we are still lacking in some areas. Enzo has been here for two months so there are still going to be plenty more frustrating moments along the way— rebuilds don’t happen overnight.*
 

 

*unless we just play GET-IT-FORWARRRRD ball, it’s a magic elixir and an instant fix. If only Enzo would consider that, we’d already be back in the Premier League. 

Edited 8 September 2023 by The_77
Typo

[James_lcfc]

4 minutes ago, The_77 said:

It’s only pompous when it comes from the other side, right? But most of the folks who are backing Enzo have been pretty reasonable in their assessments: many can see the obvious improvements and differences from the recent football we played under Rodgers 
 

The differences are actually pretty subtle. Definitely there, but not particularly obvious.

 

Enzo is also facing a much, much lower standard of opposition to be fair to Rodgers (Ugh).

 

I mean, I agree with all your points, just offering a bit of balance  

[The_77]

6 minutes ago, James_lcfc said:

The differences are actually pretty subtle. Definitely there, but not particularly obvious.

 

Enzo is also facing a much, much lower standard of opposition to be fair to Rodgers (Ugh).

 

I mean, I agree with all your points, just offering a bit of balance  

Your palate is definitely more refined than mine! I’ll happily concede that point.  

[l444ry]

Quite amusing how so many seem to fawn all over Pep's "revolutionary" tactics. Wouldn't deny he's special but with the players he's had at his disposal over the years he damned will ought to be. They would  probably win playing any system, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-5-1 or even bloody 2-3-5. I'm enjoying the Maresca ride for the time being and want him to succeed like any proper supporter but you can't helpm feeling the real problems will start if and when we get back into the Premier League, where good players win games.

[Claridge]

3 hours ago, iancognito said:

There are people in this thread absolutely dying to have Brian Deane and Jamie Scowcroft flicking it on for Paul Dickov.

Love to have a young Deane in this side, would improve us no end. Can keep the other two

[st albans fox]

30 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Quite amusing how so many seem to fawn all over Pep's "revolutionary" tactics. Wouldn't deny he's special but with the players he's had at his disposal over the years he damned will ought to be. They would  probably win playing any system, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-5-1 or even bloody 2-3-5. I'm enjoying the Maresca ride for the time being and want him to succeed like any proper supporter but you can't helpm feeling the real problems will start if and when we get back into the Premier League, where good players win games.

Relevant point but his tactical approach is to stack the odds further in their favour than just having great players.  How many times over the years have we seen great players not reach anything near their potential as a team ?

 

 

[Guppys Love Child]

33 minutes ago, James_lcfc said:

The differences are actually pretty subtle. Definitely there, but not particularly obvious.

 

Enzo is also facing a much, much lower standard of opposition to be fair to Rodgers (Ugh).

 

I mean, I agree with all your points, just offering a bit of balance  

I think in that one sentence alone is the crux of most of the posts so far.

 

Because the differences aren't glaring obvious and the general play is remarkably similar to Rodgersball in appearance (but not in its application I must add,) a group of supporters are getting frustrated. We witnessed a pretty sh1ty 18Mths or so playing a turgid keep ball style with no structure or endgame, so I can appreciate both sides of the coin on this.

[l444ry]

Just now, st albans fox said:

Relevant point but his tactical approach is to stack the odds further in their favour than just having great players.  How many times over the years have we seen great players not reach anything near their potential as a team ?

 

 

Of course and I guess we're about to find out. However,  Kompany is finding things tougher at Burnley this season and it's very likely he'll end up taking Pepball as far it can go with the players at his disposal. A similar situation to taking any other (antiquated) system as far as it'll go. The magic ingredient (money aside) to any system, in my opinion, is the quality of the Manager. Hopefully Maresca will step up to the plate.  

[l444ry]

.

Edited 8 September 2023 by l444ry

[pmcla26]

3 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Of course and I guess we're about to find out. However,  Kompany is finding things tougher at Burnley this season and it's very likely he'll end up taking Pepball as far it can go with the players at his disposal. A similar situation to taking any other (antiquated) system as far as it'll go. The magic ingredient (money aside) to any system, in my opinion, is the quality of the Manager. Hopefully Maresca will step up to the plate.  

Burnley’s issues this season are that they’ve bought in a lot of players, changed Cullen’s role, and Kompany is refusing to play Charlie Taylor at left back and putting loads of players who aren’t left backs in there ahead of him. 

[iancognito]

2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...there is no problem with that!!!

It is obvious that is not how we play, but they would be perfectly entitled to want to see their team play in a way that they have been accustomed to. I even enjoyed that type of football back in the day, very lively and got the crowd off its feet. There are thousands of people who are supporters of this club, We are all not the same, we may all just have one thing in common, no need to deride another supporter's view of the game.

It's not deriding it as to mock it but you said it yourself "it is obvious that is not how we play" and "that type of football back in the day". That Adams side was great at what it did when it did it but even if he came here tomorrow we couldn't change to that style with these players. My point was not to deride but there's no point being unnecessarily negative about what you perceive our style to be and wishing for a type of football fewer and fewer teams adopt. We've gone for this possession-based style for 6 or 7 years now. We're not going to be clipping it into the channels for Vardy or Nacho, much less hitting a long one for Nacho to flick on to McAteer or Wanya etc.

 

We have two old guys - Statler and Waldorf mimics - sitting behind us moaning for 90 mins every home game about it being too slow and why are we going backwards. I have no idea what they expect. Who are we supposed to go direct to? What's your plan B guys? If there's a bus parked in front of the opposition box, lobbing it forward to our 5'9” strikers isn't workable is it?

 

People know the style, know the aims, yet still seem surprised when we aren't playing Vardy from the start and going more direct.

[coolhandfox]

24 personnel changes in a couple of months and people expect the team to be puring.

 

Work in progress, give the bloke a chance.

[Jobyfox]

7 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

24 personnel changes in a couple of months and people expect the team to be puring.

 

Work in progress, give the bloke a chance.

Have you been here long? 

[Craig]

2 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

The differences are actually pretty subtle. Definitely there, but not particularly obvious.

 

Enzo is also facing a much, much lower standard of opposition to be fair to Rodgers (Ugh).

 

I mean, I agree with all your points, just offering a bit of balance  

At the same time we have also lost a number of players who would thrive in this system under Enzo, and have a much weaker side as a result.