Spurs in Thailand

[lcfcbluearmy]

23 minutes ago, Babylon said:

That's not what I said, but the fact is their income streams thanks to the size of their stadium is greater than ours. If we've had more income, it's entirely been down to just finishing above them. Without that greater income, it becomes far harder to compete with clubs who are regularly competing for trophies, like those in the big 6, whose income dwarfs ours and West Ham. 

Fair enough 

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

That's not what I said, but the fact is their income streams thanks to the size of their stadium is greater than ours. If we've had more income, it's entirely been down to just finishing above them. Without that greater income, it becomes far harder to compete with clubs who are regularly competing for trophies, like those in the big 6, whose income dwarfs ours and West Ham. 

Equally, it should have been just as hard for clubs to compete with us when we were turning over more. Brighton and Brentford soon surpassed us because they're sound behind the scenes.

 

This isn't aimed at you but I distinctly remember getting laughed at last season because I said they'd overtake us. It's how you spend it that matters. Chelsea have spunked a load and they're years behind Arsenal.

Edited 24 July 2023 by Stadt

[Babylon]

33 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Equally it should have been just a hard for clubs to compete with us when we were turning over more. Brighton and Brentford soon surpassed because they're sound behind the scenes.

 

This isn't aimed at you but I distinctly remember getting laughed at last season because I said they'd overtake us. It's how you spend it that matters. Chelsea have spunked a load and they're years behind Arsenal.

Indeed, but Brighton's revenue was only £40m below ours in the last accounts. People were talking about us consistently challenging for trophies basically forever, those clubs have revenues £200, £300, £400m more than ours who challenge consistently. It's just not feasible to sustain on revenues such as ours... it's far easier for us and Brighton to exchange places, because it's just a mistake or two. 

 

Let's see what happens to Brighton when their best players get cherry picked, their scouts get taken etc etc. It's nigh on impossible to keep up what we were doing, it takes near faultless decision making over the course of many many years. 

[fkas]

5 hours ago, 3 titles in 7 years said:

Just bored of incompetence

If you think this is incompetence you must be young. Go back and look at some of the history. It's not even that long ago we got relegated to League 1 and that season we could barely kick a football in the right direction.

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, fkas said:

If you think this is incompetence you must be young. Go back and look at some of the history. It's not even that long ago we got relegated to League 1 and that season we could barely kick a football in the right direction.

It is incompetence, you can't argue against that. 

 

You've had a club with a top ten PL budget, a world class training facility, a manager paid £8 million a year get relegated.

 

If you compare that to where we were when got relegated in the third tier (significant debts, still reeling from admin etc), the incompetency now is bigger than it's ever been in the clubs history bar possibly the Epsom/Taylor era

Edited 24 July 2023 by CosbehFox

[fkas]

23 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

It is incompetence, you can't argue against that. 

 

You've had a club with a top ten PL budget, a world class training facility, a manager paid £8 million a year get relegated.

 

If you compare that to where we were when got relegated in the third tier (significant debts, still reeling from admin etc), the incompetency now is bigger than it's ever been in the clubs history bar possibly the Epsom/Taylor era

The club is still in a stable place though which is a huge difference to the mess that it was dumped in before. League 1 was in the Mandaric years so we weren't even that skint by that point.

 

Two big errors for me were the 2021 summer transfer window. The arrogance to buy squad players and sell no one assuming we'd continue to get European football. Went against the sell one and reinvest in the first team policy and it cost us over the next two seasons. Second error was loyalty to Rogers, he'd lost the dressing room by the end of last season and should have never made it to the start of pre season. Arrogance got us relegated, salary outlay and nice training set ups matter for very little really. Spurs have the nicest stadium in the league and spend plenty on their squad but have an empty trophy room.

[Stadt]

35 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Indeed, but Brighton's revenue was only £40m below ours in the last accounts. People were talking about us consistently challenging for trophies basically forever, those clubs have revenues £200, £300, £400m more than ours who challenge consistently. It's just not feasible to sustain on revenues such as ours... it's far easier for us and Brighton to exchange places, because it's just a mistake or two. 

 

Let's see what happens to Brighton when their best players get cherry picked, their scouts get taken etc etc. It's nigh on impossible to keep up what we were doing, it takes near faultless decision making over the course of many many years. 

At Brighton (and Brentford) it’s different because their owner is a ‘football person’. David Weir or Paul Barber might get poached but Brighton are just institutionally knowledgeable. 
 

They might keep selling but their recruitment model is prepared for it. We have an inherited duty free billionaire, a duty free chief exec and an academy coach running the show.

 

It doesn’t take near faultless decision making, you have to avoid obvious mistakes. It’s not even just hindsight either, there was plenty of even-handed criticism of the Perez and Vestergaard signings on here.

[Babylon]

43 minutes ago, Stadt said:

At Brighton (and Brentford) it’s different because their owner is a ‘football person’. David Weir or Paul Barber might get poached but Brighton are just institutionally knowledgeable. 
 

They might keep selling but their recruitment model is prepared for it. We have an inherited duty free billionaire, a duty free chief exec and an academy coach running the show.

 

It doesn’t take near faultless decision making, you have to avoid obvious mistakes. It’s not even just hindsight either, there was plenty of even-handed criticism of the Perez and Vestergaard signings on here.

Showing your bias here a bit, "Institutionally knowledge", "Football People", yet someone who has been in the game longer and actually achieved more is an "academy coach". Their recruitment model will come under strain when they lose their recruitment teams, several times, as we have done.

 

It's simple, we gave Rodgers too much power off the back of a wonderful start, and we waited a bit too long to let go. The Perez and Vestergaard transfer are his and his head of recruitment, they were too close. How can you not back them? 

 

We have to learn from that, but it's easy to say and hard to deny people when they've done well. See Ranieri getting more say after title win also. Imagine after the great start we'd NOT given Rodgers a new contract and NOT given him things he wanted. Fans would be spitting feathers wouldn't they, if he walked out and cited not backed with decisions who is our physio etc. 

 

 

[Stadt]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Showing your bias here a bit, "Institutionally knowledge", "Football People", yet someone who has been in the game longer and actually achieved more is an "academy coach". Their recruitment model will come under strain when they lose their recruitment teams, several times, as we have done.

 

It's simple, we gave Rodgers too much power off the back of a wonderful start, and we waited a bit too long to let go. The Perez and Vestergaard transfer are his and his head of recruitment, they were too close. How can you not back them? 

 

We have to learn from that, but it's easy to say and hard to deny people when they've done well. See Ranieri getting more say after title win also. Imagine after the great start we'd NOT given Rodgers a new contract and NOT given him things he wanted. Fans would be spitting feathers wouldn't they, if he walked out and cited not backed with decisions who is our physio etc. 

 

 

Yes I'm biased against people who have presided over the worst PL relegation ever, guilty!

 

Brighton lost their manager, DoF, assistant manager, two coaches, GK coach and the assistant HoR and improved last season. It's the board and DoF's job to ensure the manager and his team work under the club's structure. When a manager is doing well, it's a sign the structure is working - that shouldn't develop into greater responsibility for the manager. The average tenure of a PL manager is fewer than 800 days. 

 

It's the director of football's remit to make sure self-interested, short-termist managers don't make decision that backfire in the long run. You can't let a manager and his HoR run rough shod over a successful system because of a good run of form.

[Hales]

Am I the only one that didn't realise Chris Davies was now at Spurs? I assumed he had gone with Brendan!

[SafewayFox]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Showing your bias here a bit, "Institutionally knowledge", "Football People", yet someone who has been in the game longer and actually achieved more is an "academy coach". Their recruitment model will come under strain when they lose their recruitment teams, several times, as we have done.

 

It's simple, we gave Rodgers too much power off the back of a wonderful start, and we waited a bit too long to let go. The Perez and Vestergaard transfer are his and his head of recruitment, they were too close. How can you not back them? 

 

We have to learn from that, but it's easy to say and hard to deny people when they've done well. See Ranieri getting more say after title win also. Imagine after the great start we'd NOT given Rodgers a new contract and NOT given him things he wanted. Fans would be spitting feathers wouldn't they, if he walked out and cited not backed with decisions who is our physio etc. 

 

 

What I think you’re missing on @Stadt posts and the comparison with Brighton is they had De Zerbi on a list of potential managers should Potter leave.

 

Top and co had NO contingency plan yet so many warning signs were there, that is still one of my biggest complaints against the current leadership.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, SafewayFox said:

What I think you’re missing on @Stadt posts and the comparison with Brighton is they had De Zerbi on a list of potential managers should Potter leave.

 

Top and co had NO contingency plan yet so many warning signs were there, that is still one of my biggest complaints against the current leadership.

And we approached our current manager when Rodgers went did we not? We don't know if we had a list, what happened to the names on it etc. For all we know he could have said he'd come and then backed out after.  We simply don't know, and I've criticised our current lot at length for their lack of planning at times... but then we've won two leagues and an FA cup, with several European campaigns and 5th place finishes... so they can't be that bad.

Edited 24 July 2023 by Babylon

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

Yes I'm biased against people who have presided over the worst PL relegation ever, guilty!

 

Brighton lost their manager, DoF, assistant manager, two coaches, GK coach and the assistant HoR and improved last season. It's the board and DoF's job to ensure the manager and his team work under the club's structure. When a manager is doing well, it's a sign the structure is working - that shouldn't develop into greater responsibility for the manager. The average tenure of a PL manager is fewer than 800 days. 

 

It's the director of football's remit to make sure self-interested, short-termist managers don't make decision that backfire in the long run. You can't let a manager and his HoR run rough shod over a successful system because of a good run of form.

The same 'youth coach' who presided over a premier league and FA Cup win yes? 

 

And we've lost people and bounced back before, the issue is that you simply don't get all decisions right. Brighton WILL get decisions wrong, they WILL fall back down the table. 

 

If Rodgers had walked three and a half years ago, you'd have blamed Rudkin for not backing him.... You know it. It's a very difficult line to tread when you have a successful manager, between keeping them happy and not giving them too much. 

[SafewayFox]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

And we approached our current manager when Rodgers went did we not? We don't know if we had a list, what happened to the names on it etc. We simply don't know, and I've criticised our current lot at length for their lack of planning at times... but then we've won two leagues and an FA cup, with several European campaigns and 5th place finishes... so they can't be that bad.

I have to strongly disagree, imagine actually having a plan of sacking Rodgers like before the international break/Palace game when a new boss had two weeks before his first game.

 

Or actually believing that Stowell and Sadler would be able to stop the rot when they just played Rodgers lite.

[Corky]

9 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

That same generation you're dismissing will have also supported the club at literally the lowest point in its history. You'd have to be an actual child to have the kind of expectation you seem to think people have.

 

We had a great, unprecedented chance to secure our future as a club that can regularly compete for trophies and it's been blown.

 

Does it not occur to you that said generation, who are probably coming round to being parents themselves, might want their children to have the best chance of experiencing the same kind of things we've all been fortunate enough to experience ourselves - and to make sure their kids' friends also want to grow up supporting their local team?

 

I've always taken the rough with the smooth supporting this club but the kind of shoulder-shrugging "well I've seen us win stuff so I don't care if we're shit for the rest of my life" attitude really gets my goat.

The older generation nearly hounded out a manager before he could deliver trophies. I mean, at least the spoilt kids of today waited before turning.

[Paninistickers]

I see Elliott and Tags are in Bangkok. Jesus H. It's gonna be one helluva expense claim

[Stadt]

51 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The same 'youth coach' who presided over a premier league and FA Cup win yes? 

 

And we've lost people and bounced back before, the issue is that you simply don't get all decisions right. Brighton WILL get decisions wrong, they WILL fall back down the table. 

 

If Rodgers had walked three and a half years ago, you'd have blamed Rudkin for not backing him.... You know it. It's a very difficult line to tread when you have a successful manager, between keeping them happy and not giving them too much. 

We make bad decisions and do nothing to change the decision makers. Rudkin's been here along time and everybody worth their salt has left but nobody has came in for him, the man who presided over the PL and FA cup win. Why is that?

 

I'm aware clubs don't get every decision right, depending on how good the personnel and the squad are, you can ride out the poor decisions better. Signing the occasional dud is fine when you're operating from a strong base - like Brighton are now. If they get 60% of decision right, they'll be fine.

 

Rudkin has backed Rodgers, overly so. If he left 3 years ago it'd have been the boards' doing.

 

 

 

[Skid_1884]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

The same 'youth coach' who presided over a premier league and FA Cup win yes? 

 

And we've lost people and bounced back before, the issue is that you simply don't get all decisions right. Brighton WILL get decisions wrong, they WILL fall back down the table. 

 

If Rodgers had walked three and a half years ago, you'd have blamed Rudkin for not backing him.... You know it. It's a very difficult line to tread when you have a successful manager, between keeping them happy and not giving them too much. 

He literally is just a youth coach that has brown nosed his way up the ladder.

 

You see people like him in all walks of life that just ride on the back of other peoples achievements.

 

The only thing Rudkin has done has been in the right place at the right time.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

On 22/07/2023 at 10:12, Sol thewall Bamba said:

I guess the proof will be in the pudding tomorrow with regards to the "fake fans" thing. To me it's pretty obvious at least a good chunk of those welcoming the players were King Power employees, but if there's a good chunk of the stadium supporting us tomorrow I'd be more inclined to believe the "we're big in Thailand" line. 

 

In terms of the game I think Spurs will turn us over quite comfortably. Hope Madderz watches and analysis the game properly.

Yeah nah

[Lillehamring]

17 hours ago, elvisfmcfly said:

People have eyes you know, they see what's going on, We are not all naïve or think everything is rosy, everything about the way this club is being run is wrong, we haven't got a clue which players will be here, basically everyone is up for sale.The trouble is the predictions are easy to make with Top and Rudkin at the helm,This Norwegian guy thinks the premier league is the toughest league in the world, maybe he jumped on board when we won the league, well he's about to find out the league we are now in is actually the toughest league in the world, especially if you are as unprepared as we are.

You're the comedy gift that keeps on giving - wow.  FYI - born and bred in leicester, been watching since 1980.  Hope that helps with your bigoted ignorance  

[norwichfox]

37 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Yeah nah

The Leicester end had seen the weather forecast (pity the management hadn't)

[Beachyboy]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

The same 'youth coach' who presided over a premier league and FA Cup win yes? 

 

And we've lost people and bounced back before, the issue is that you simply don't get all decisions right. Brighton WILL get decisions wrong, they WILL fall back down the table. 

 

If Rodgers had walked three and a half years ago, you'd have blamed Rudkin for not backing him.... You know it. It's a very difficult line to tread when you have a successful manager, between keeping them happy and not giving them too much. 

Rogers was fantastic for us for 2 years, but when that intrinsic desire is lost, an nobody is motivating you, you start to lose your drive. Very few people make it as an Elite coach, an even fewer sustain it at one club for over 3 years in the modern game. Enzo will bring us success, he has the eye of the tiger, he's climbing the hill. I've no doubts he brings us success, his challenge will come after we have climbed the hill (back I'm the prem top 7 or 8). An he sees an even bigger hill is then still to go.

[3 titles in 7 years]

10 hours ago, fkas said:

If you think this is incompetence you must be young. Go back and look at some of the history. It's not even that long ago we got relegated to League 1 and that season we could barely kick a football in the right direction.

Yeah, blah blah blah, I was there too.

 

When we were relegated to League One we didn't have the resources to build something sustainable having won a Premier League, FA Cup and multiple European campaigns.

 

Being relegated from the Premier League is beyond incompetence, it's a dereliction of duty from every person at that club

[deep blue]

20 hours ago, fkas said:

If you think this is incompetence you must be young. Go back and look at some of the history. It's not even that long ago we got relegated to League 1 and that season we could barely kick a football in the right direction.

We didn't kick the ball  in the right direction much last season either. 

[Babylon]

16 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

I have to strongly disagree, imagine actually having a plan of sacking Rodgers like before the international break/Palace game when a new boss had two weeks before his first game.

 

Or actually believing that Stowell and Sadler would be able to stop the rot when they just played Rodgers lite.

Strongly disagree with what? I've not disagreed or said otherwise to either of those points.