Vestergaard

[Bourbon Fox]

On 28/12/2023 at 14:14, Foxy DK said:

 

Indeed, it’s bad sporemanship. Let’s hope we never sign Lamella!

We've already got Conor Cordyceps...

[whoareyaaa]

If Rodgers had started Vestergaurd last season we might have stayed up, only reason we went down was because of the manager and the board for not sacking him earlier.

 

but this tag still looms over some players, even though one didn't even feature for us last season even when available and the other was playing along side Daniel Amartey and Luke Thomas

[shen]

13 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

If Rodgers had started Vestergaurd last season we might have stayed up, only reason we went down was because of the manager and the board for not sacking him earlier.

 

but this tag still looms over some players, even though one didn't even feature for us last season even when available and the other was playing along side Daniel Amartey and Luke Thomas

It obviously wasn't. We don't need to oversimplify or be that reductive because we want it to fit an easy narrative.

 

Many things were wrong last season and not all were (solely) pointing to Rodgers.

[whoareyaaa]

5 minutes ago, shen said:

It obviously wasn't. We don't need to oversimplify or be that reductive because we want it to fit an easy narrative.

 

Many things were wrong last season and not all were (solely) pointing to Rodgers.

It was mainly down to Rodgers and the board for not acting earlier. (imo)

Edited 1 January by whoareyaaa

[shen]

4 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

It was mainly down to Rodgers and the board for not acting earlier. (imo)

Our recruitment badly failed too.

 

Many players didn't deliver anywhere near what they can (this is not just down to the manager y'know).

 

The club didn't offer Schmeichel a new deal.

 

We had a lot of injuries.

 

Past years' mismanagement meant we were shackled by FFP to a certain degree.

[KFS]

Wrong thread

Edited 1 January by KFS

[Lambert09]

I’ll be the first to hold my hands up, i’ve changed my mind again. 

I think we need to keep him next year. He’s just too perfect for the way we play and the more i think about it, it’s just going to be incredibly hard to find someone else who can play this role. 

 

He’s finally seeming to win all of his aerial duels and there’s simply very few players as good on the ball as him. I just question where we find a replacement who will hit the ground running. 
 

With Man City, pep is famous for being very slow to bring people into this role. Stones famously took years to be able to comfortably play the role. Gvardiol is being deemed not able to play in the centre and he was the biggest prospect in the game. 

 

As a newly promoted side, any defender with the right passing stats will have to be either young and unproven, playing in a lower league or in a lower foreign league. Anyone doing this in italy, france, spain or germany will already be on the radar of big clubs. 

 

I’m not saying we couldn’t sign a better cb, but for the role he plays…. I think that’s something we’d struggle with. Enzo loves him and at this stage, we’d be silly not to see what he could do. He could be the difference between relegation.

 

Newly promoted teams generally need a fast start. Pick up points while the confidence is high. Integrating a new cb in that role could be a disaster. 

Edited 23 January by Lambert09

[Beechey]

I just love how he rifles passes into midfield. He sent KDH in behind their midfield a few times.

[Gubbins]

39 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I’ll be the first to hold my hands up, i’ve changed my mind again. 

I think we need to keep him next year. He’s just too perfect for the way we play and the more i think about it, it’s just going to be incredibly hard to find someone else who can play this role. 

 

He’s finally seeming to win all of his aerial duels and there’s simply very few players as good on the ball as him. I just question where we find a replacement who will hit the ground running. 
 

With Man City, pep is famous for being very slow to bring people into this role. Stones famously took years to be able to comfortably play the role. Gvardiol is being deemed not able to play in the centre and he was the biggest prospect in the game. 

 

As a newly promoted side, any defender with the right passing stats will have to be either young and unproven, playing in a lower league or in a lower foreign league. Anyone doing this in italy, france, spain or germany will already be on the radar of big clubs. 

 

I’m not saying we couldn’t sign a better cb, but for the role he plays…. I think that’s something we’d struggle with. Enzo loves him and at this stage, we’d be silly not to see what he could do. He could be the difference between relegation.

 

Newly promoted teams generally need a fast start. Pick up points while the confidence is high. Integrating a new cb in that role could be a disaster. 

As far as I'm concerned if we rigidly stick with the current version of Enzo ball in the prem we will be well adrift at the bottom of the league and probably looking for a new manager this time next year. It is telling that whenever the shortcomings this style represents in the prem are brought up the stock replies are 'let's worry about/enjoy getting out of this division first' or 'well wel just sign better players', of which we'd need well over a half a dozen of much much better quality without breaking the bank to even stand a chance. Given the wages he'd prob want and how atrocious he was at prem level previously it would be nuts resigning vestergarrd given that the system he thrives in would absolutely have to change.

[HybridFox]

Championship Maldini

[Foxaholic ME]

On 31/12/2023 at 22:35, whoareyaaa said:

If Rodgers had started Vestergaurd last season we might have stayed up, only reason we went down was because of the manager and the board for not sacking him earlier.

 

but this tag still looms over some players, even though one didn't even feature for us last season even when available and the other was playing along side Daniel Amartey and Luke Thomas

Completely disagree he is far too slow for premier although good in the championship  have you forgot he was in the defence  that conceded 9 against us and of course Vardy like most Premier forwards was quick

[bovril]

He was absolutely awful in 21/22 and 22/23. There may be mitigating circumstances such as the manager, but we can't pretend that he was anything other than tosh. He seemed to have absolutely no defensive qualities whatsoever. 

[FoxinNotts]

Was watching him very closely last night, from the stands. 

I though he was immense.

I have to hold my hands up, I though he was potentially our worse ever signing.

But this season, at this level, the man is fantastic.

 

however..... not sure he could cut it in the premier league, should we go up

[bmt]

28 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

As far as I'm concerned if we rigidly stick with the current version of Enzo ball in the prem we will be well adrift at the bottom of the league and probably looking for a new manager this time next year. It is telling that whenever the shortcomings this style represents in the prem are brought up the stock replies are 'let's worry about/enjoy getting out of this division first' or 'well wel just sign better players', of which we'd need well over a half a dozen of much much better quality without breaking the bank to even stand a chance. Given the wages he'd prob want and how atrocious he was at prem level previously it would be nuts resigning vestergarrd given that the system he thrives in would absolutely have to change.

I think you can accept part of this without accepting the whole thing. Yes there will need to be some advancement of the system, but imo some of those changes should be nuanced. And there isn't going to be a complete overhaul. I think Vestergaard should be re-signed, if only for the times we are playing shit teams (which there are plenty of), and then to be back up when our style has to have a greater shift when we are playing the top half.

 

I actually think it's a complete no brainer.

[bmt]

2 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

Was watching him very closely last night, from the stands. 

I though he was immense.

I have to hold my hands up, I though he was potentially our worse ever signing.

But this season, at this level, the man is fantastic.

 

however..... not sure he could cut it in the premier league, should we go up

Agree - by far our best player last night.

[Kierzz]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

He was absolutely awful in 21/22 and 22/23. There may be mitigating circumstances such as the manager, but we can't pretend that he was anything other than tosh. He seemed to have absolutely no defensive qualities whatsoever. 

He never suited the way Rodgers played. We were far more attacking and left less players behind the ball so had to rely on athletic and fast players to cut out counter attacks like Soyuncu, Fofana and Ndidi. Whoever scouted vestergaard for Rodgers' system did a terrible job.

 

In Enzo's system though with the protection of two other centre backs either side of him and two deep lying playmakers in front of him during the transition, he would be harder to isolate in the premier league.

 

Plus his passing and tactical understanding of the game is so crucial for Enzo's system - there aren't many other CBs worth less than 50millions that are as good as him with the ball.

[Blanchflower78]

Do people seriously think Premier League opposition will sit off him allowing us to dictate play like we/he can in the Championship?

 

Jeez.

[BroughtonFox]

I’d only offer him a one year extension if we don’t get promoted. If we do let him go on a free and say thanks for this season. Let him find another championship club which is his level

[Nolucklcfc]

He’s excellent at this level but if we go up … he’ll be constantly exposed. 

[Greg2607]

5 minutes ago, BroughtonFox said:

I’d only offer him a one year extension if we don’t get promoted. If we do let him go on a free and say thanks for this season. Let him find another championship club which is his level

is it though? out of a career where he has played 293 league matches........ 267 of those have been in top flight football in either the bundesliga or the premier league.... 

 

he isn't a championship level player.  Liam Moore is a championship level player. one who is a year younger than Vestegaard and without a club having plied the majority of his career in that division. 

Edited 23 January by Greg2607

[MPH]

As much as  I have enjoyed watching him play this season, i cant get over how woeful he was for us in the prem.

 

 

I'd be very vervous about relying on him if we go up..

 

 

He'll get less time on the ball, wont have the space or time to pick out a pass and will have his lack of pace exploited...

 

He would need a stronger team all around of him to be able to shine..

[filbertway]

2 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

I’ll be the first to hold my hands up, i’ve changed my mind again. 

I think we need to keep him next year. He’s just too perfect for the way we play and the more i think about it, it’s just going to be incredibly hard to find someone else who can play this role. 

 

He’s finally seeming to win all of his aerial duels and there’s simply very few players as good on the ball as him. I just question where we find a replacement who will hit the ground running. 
 

With Man City, pep is famous for being very slow to bring people into this role. Stones famously took years to be able to comfortably play the role. Gvardiol is being deemed not able to play in the centre and he was the biggest prospect in the game. 

 

As a newly promoted side, any defender with the right passing stats will have to be either young and unproven, playing in a lower league or in a lower foreign league. Anyone doing this in italy, france, spain or germany will already be on the radar of big clubs. 

 

I’m not saying we couldn’t sign a better cb, but for the role he plays…. I think that’s something we’d struggle with. Enzo loves him and at this stage, we’d be silly not to see what he could do. He could be the difference between relegation.

 

Newly promoted teams generally need a fast start. Pick up points while the confidence is high. Integrating a new cb in that role could be a disaster. 

The last 20 minutes is more like we will play next season. There will be very few games where teams just let our defenders prance around with the ball. Keeping Vesty would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

The last 20 minutes is more like we will play next season. There will be very few games where teams just let our defenders prance around with the ball. Keeping Vesty would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

What did he do wrong in the last 20 minutes?

[filbertway]

Just now, Chelmofox said:

What did he do wrong in the last 20 minutes?

I meant more that we're not going to have the lions share of the ball, so this passing of his really doesn't matter. I'd rather have a defender who i'm confident will be able to do the defending portion of the game. Especially as Enzo's tactics are gonna see us get routine turned over and have our centre backs dealing  with 2 on 2/3 on 3 situations

[HybridFox]

Whether he can replicate it in the prem is a valid question but he definitely deserves the opportunity to remain a part of the squad and prove himself.

 

No brainer to offer him a new deal (within reason of length etc)