Vestergaard

[dmayne7]

He probably needs to be out of the team. Not because he's been bad; he's actually done ok. But you can see that his ability to break lines and bring the ball out is severely limited and because of his absence of any pace, we have no choice but to play this deep at the moment. If we can somehow find a way to get higher up the pitch then that's ok but if not, we have to make a change and dropping Vestergaard facilitates that.

[funkyrobot]

9 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

He probably needs to be out of the team. Not because he's been bad; he's actually done ok. But you can see that his ability to break lines and bring the ball out is severely limited and because of his absence of any pace, we have no choice but to play this deep at the moment. If we can somehow find a way to get higher up the pitch then that's ok but if not, we have to make a change and dropping Vestergaard facilitates that.

Tbh I don’t think you can pinpoint blame on Vestergaard or Faes for today. 

[themightyfin]

13 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

He probably needs to be out of the team. Not because he's been bad; he's actually done ok. But you can see that his ability to break lines and bring the ball out is severely limited and because of his absence of any pace, we have no choice but to play this deep at the moment. If we can somehow find a way to get higher up the pitch then that's ok but if not, we have to make a change and dropping Vestergaard facilitates that.

Best passer in the team . Pace or no pace. 

[South Shire Fox]

Thought he played alright tbh? Justin was the one who was miles out of position on both goals

[coolhandfox]

Did OK.

 

[martyn]

6 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

Thought he played alright tbh? Justin was the one who was miles out of position on both goals

I thought he was partially culpable for the second goal. As soon as JJ started committing to the winger, Vestergaard absolutely had to start moving over on the cover. Faes had the other forward covered. 

 

At worst he would have been in position to foul Iwobi and take a yellow.

[dmayne7]

29 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Tbh I don’t think you can pinpoint blame on Vestergaard or Faes for today. 

I'm not? I'm saying that because of his massive limitation in terms of pace, it's making it impossible for us to get higher up the pitch, or it's at least an excuse for Cooper to use it a trap for him to fall into

[dmayne7]

27 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Best passer in the team . Pace or no pace. 

And? What's the point in being a great passer if he's not able to utilise it. No idea what relevance that has to us being forced so deep because of his lack of pace defensively?

[themightyfin]

Just now, dmayne7 said:

And? What's the point in being a great passer if he's not able to utilise it. No idea what relevance that has to us being forced so deep because of his lack of pace defensively?

I don't see it as a lack of pacas the reason  that we are defending so deep.

Rather we are being pushed back naturally by better teams.

We are going to be sitting deep soaking up long periods of pressure as a team regardless of how fast our defenders  are. 

 

Vesty is currently the only defender who's at least looking to play it forward so take him out and the transition stages would be even slower. 

 

You think that by taking him out all of a sudden we can play 20 yards higher up the pitch? 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

19 minutes ago, martyn said:

I thought he was partially culpable for the second goal. As soon as JJ started committing to the winger, Vestergaard absolutely had to start moving over on the cover. Faes had the other forward covered. 

 

At worst he would have been in position to foul Iwobi and take a yellow.

Justin’s decision to press was questionable when you see what’s behind him - but I do question where the rest of the back 3 were, it wasn’t like it was a quick switch of play.

 

First goal - not sure what Faes is doing pressing up in their half - maybe there was a bit of confidence from us growing in the game at that point that prompted his over aggressive press - but that did leave Jannik and then as a result Justin horribly exposed.

 

Both very poor goals to concede.

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

Justin’s decision to press was questionable when you see what’s behind him - but I do question where the rest of the back 3 were, it wasn’t like it was a quick switch of play.

 

First goal - not sure what Faes is doing pressing up in their half - maybe there was a bit of confidence from us growing in the game at that point that prompted his over aggressive press - but that did leave Jannik and then as a result Justin horribly exposed.

 

Both very poor goals to concede.

The first goal is really poor from Fatawu, absolutely no awareness at all.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

55 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

He probably needs to be out of the team. Not because he's been bad; he's actually done ok. But you can see that his ability to break lines and bring the ball out is severely limited and because of his absence of any pace, we have no choice but to play this deep at the moment. If we can somehow find a way to get higher up the pitch then that's ok but if not, we have to make a change and dropping Vestergaard facilitates that.

I agree, this is something Cooper probably needs to look at.

 

It’s notable that Cooper’s swapped him and Faes around (Jannik was on the left side last season) and that’s no doubt down to the side he’s playing the attacking fullback - and a clue as to why he’s not used Ricardo as yet.

 

It’s either that or play a back three - and in some ways that could work better? 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

9 minutes ago, filbertway said:

The first goal is really poor from Fatawu, absolutely no awareness at all.

I can see why you’d say that because he didn’t track the run - but in fairness to him, the situation had broken down way before it got to that point.

 

I’ve played in and behind enough defences to know your centre half should not be marauding into midfield when there was little danger before that point and leaving your extremely slow centre-half loads of pacey guys and acres of space to cover.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

20 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

 

You think that by taking him out all of a sudden we can play 20 yards higher up the pitch? 

Yes.

 

We could also play attacking fullbacks on both sides too.

[themightyfin]

7 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

Yes.

 

We could also play attacking fullbacks on both sides too.

Ok. Who? 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

2 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Ok. Who? 

It’s down to Cooper to decide - but I’d go with either Okoli or Nelson - they’re probably not that much quicker, but are at least a tad more mobile - you’d still need someone dominant in the air however, because we lack that too.

[themightyfin]

25 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

It’s down to Cooper to decide - but I’d go with either Okoli or Nelson - they’re probably not that much quicker, but are at least a tad more mobile - you’d still need someone dominant in the air however, because we lack that too.

You said go with  attacking fullbacks on each side. My question to you was who? 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

2 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

You said go with  attacking fullbacks on each side. My question to you was who? 

Ricardo / Kristiansen - the only adventurous full backs we have.

 

You can’t leave big spaces down the flank next to big Jan - he’d get murdered by Prem standard wingers.

 

See Fulham’s second goal for an example of that.

[dmayne7]

1 hour ago, themightyfin said:

I don't see it as a lack of pacas the reason  that we are defending so deep.

Rather we are being pushed back naturally by better teams.

We are going to be sitting deep soaking up long periods of pressure as a team regardless of how fast our defenders  are. 

 

Vesty is currently the only defender who's at least looking to play it forward so take him out and the transition stages would be even slower. 

 

You think that by taking him out all of a sudden we can play 20 yards higher up the pitch? 

As I said in another reply, I think having him in the team is at least an excuse to do so or a trap to fall into. As a manager, if you're being pragmatic, it's impossible to not think that you need to sit deeper to cover for him. By taking him out of the team, you then drop that from your thinking. As I say, it might not be all because of Vestergaard but it's a contributing factor. We certainly can't play higher up the pitch with him in the team that's for sure. Maybe Skipp coming in will help as he can actually hold onto and use the ball, unlike Ndidi. But something has to change if we don't get a drastic change of personnel and I think this is one solution.

[themightyfin]

11 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

As I said in another reply, I think having him in the team is at least an excuse to do so or a trap to fall into. As a manager, if you're being pragmatic, it's impossible to not think that you need to sit deeper to cover for him. By taking him out of the team, you then drop that from your thinking. As I say, it might not be all because of Vestergaard but it's a contributing factor. We certainly can't play higher up the pitch with him in the team that's for sure. Maybe Skipp coming in will help as he can actually hold onto and use the ball, unlike Ndidi. But something has to change if we don't get a drastic change of personnel and I think this is one solution.

We would be no higher up the pitch today enen with a fast center back. We were forced back and sat as a low block.