Kasper

[coolhandfox]

7 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

We didn’t have an adequate replacement though (or the money to buy one.) The mistake definately was moving Kasper on.

Not true, we would have spent 20m on Harrison if Leeds didn't pull the plug last minute.

 

So we had money but chose not too.

[Reg Vardy]

11 hours ago, don_danbury said:

what makes you think he thought he was bigger than the club. nonsense 

General attitude, on and off the pitch, demands for a long contract on his terms, and was no longer the player he undoubtedly was….in short we would have been paying more effectively for less…never a good relationship…..

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said:

General attitude, on and off the pitch, demands for a long contract on his terms, and was no longer the player he undoubtedly was….in short we would have been paying more effectively for less…never a good relationship…..

Contract negotiations are part and parcel of football. If someone else is putting an offer on the table as their contract is coming to an end, the player has every right to see if the existing club is willing to match. If the club decides not to - then fine. We are seeing this more and more, and at least in Kaspers case it was done with a very small fee rather than at the very end of his contract.

 

The issue with last season was not Kaspers behaviour, but the appalling way the management dealt with his replacement. 

[shen]

13 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said:

General attitude, on and off the pitch, demands for a long contract on his terms, and was no longer the player he undoubtedly was….in short we would have been paying more effectively for less…never a good relationship…..

It's funny how so many object to being paid or rewarded based on past achievements. So many of us start our careers on low wages, often with a sensation of being underpaid.

We're being taught to prove our worth in order to earn more, so in many respects we're not rewarded until we achieve something.

 

It's the same with all our title winning players - we're still paying Vardy and Albrighton high wages, in great part due to their contribution to our previous successes.

 

As for his 'general attitude', that seems completely unfounded. Smells more of personal dislike, which is entirely fair, but then just say that.

[Reg Vardy]

2 hours ago, shen said:

It's funny how so many object to being paid or rewarded based on past achievements. So many of us start our careers on low wages, often with a sensation of being underpaid.

We're being taught to prove our worth in order to earn more, so in many respects we're not rewarded until we achieve something.

 

It's the same with all our title winning players - we're still paying Vardy and Albrighton high wages, in great part due to their contribution to our previous successes.

 

As for his 'general attitude', that seems completely unfounded. Smells more of personal dislike, which is entirely fair, but then just say that.

Think Vardy, Albrighton (and may I add Ndidi to that list,) have handled coming to the end of their contracts the way it should be 100% little in the public domain.....like I say we offered, he wanted more, we didn't want to give it, he left, that's business/football/life.....

 

Be interesting to get his take on it now......

[RoboFox]

10 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

Rodgers dropping him for his 150th consecutive game was just so petty.

 

Sums up the last 2 years of Rodgers' tenure perfectly.

 

 

This. 

 

Pretty sure it's common knowledge that Rodgers and Schmeichel didn't get on and it's been implied that Rodgers saw Schmeichel's personality, influence in the dressing room and around the club as a threat to his authority. 

 

I think the wage demands were not the biggest factor in him moving on.

 

Edited 11 December 2023 by RoboFox

[Claridge]

20 hours ago, MrsJohnMurphy said:

He would have been because we'd still be in the PL

and stuck with Rodgers and im pretty sure, near the bottom this season

[shen]

6 hours ago, Reg Vardy said:

Think Vardy, Albrighton (and may I add Ndidi to that list,) have handled coming to the end of their contracts the way it should be 100% little in the public domain.....like I say we offered, he wanted more, we didn't want to give it, he left, that's business/football/life.....

 

Be interesting to get his take on it now......

I don't recall it being done in the public domain much. The Athletic reported that he wanted to have a 'new challenge', which, when reading his comments, I interpret as him wanting an ambitious project that was built around him.

 

And his take on it is literally in the posted link - he's sad about leaving and he would have wanted to stay. 

[shen]

5 hours ago, RoboFox said:

This. 

 

Pretty sure it's common knowledge that Rodgers and Schmeichel didn't get on and it's been implied that Rodgers saw Schmeichel's personality, influence in the dressing room and around the club as a threat to his authority. 

 

I think the wage demands were not the biggest factor in him moving on.

None have gone on record saying things about the other person, have they? So 'common knowledge' is more like 'popular rumours', no?

[Reg Vardy]

We let him go…..hasn’t set the game alight,or has he? 

[whoareyaaa]

I don't think Kasper liked Rodgers and that was the reason he ended up leaving.

 

And probably that decision is what sent us down.

[shen]

41 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said:

We let him go…..hasn’t set the game alight,or has he? 

Who says anything of the sort? We've been relegated at the first time of asking since he left though. We clearly missed his presence which would have made a telling difference given how close it was in the end.

Maybe it only took dropping Ward for Iversen sooner to save us from the drop.

 

He's left, but I think he'll be back in some capacity in the future if we can and want to offer him a role.

[Jimmy]

20 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

We didn’t have an adequate replacement though (or the money to buy one.) The mistake definately was moving Kasper on.

we did, we just chose to play the keeper that had missed all of pre season, Iversen would have gotten us through to this summer in the prem and then we could have bought a better keeper, maybe even Hermansen.

 

Also just because Nice offered a 3 year deal Kasper didn't have to leave, he was still under contract, he chose to.

[funkyrobot]

On 11/12/2023 at 21:04, Jimmy said:

we did, we just chose to play the keeper that had missed all of pre season, Iversen would have gotten us through to this summer in the prem and then we could have bought a better keeper, maybe even Hermansen.

 

Also just because Nice offered a 3 year deal Kasper didn't have to leave, he was still under contract, he chose to.

Iversen wasn’t adequate was he? He was better than Ward but that’s no endorsement. He’s now 4th choice keeper such is his lack of ability with his feet. He was also no replacement for Kasper in his authority and leadership. 

[funkyrobot]

On 11/12/2023 at 07:42, coolhandfox said:

Not true, we would have spent 20m on Harrison if Leeds didn't pull the plug last minute.

 

So we had money but chose not too.

Not true back at you. You are talking about a different transfer window, in the summer transfer window when Kasper left we had no funds. By the winter window we would’ve had further funds from the Fofana deal and as Rodgers was a Ward fan, he would’ve had no intention to use funds to buy a replacement. 

[BKLFox]

Why are we hanging onto the wish we offered Kasper a new contract?

He was highest paid (unless Vardy pip'd him)
He's now 37
Yes he might have been able to save us from relegation
but the knock on for that would be:-
He's 37
He would be taking a large portion of our premier lge wage bill
we would probably still have Rodgers as manager
we wouldn't have Mads
We wouldn't be playing the way we are therefore players like Vestergaard would be redundant
 

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

Not true back at you. You are talking about a different transfer window, in the summer transfer window when Kasper left we had no funds. By the winter window we would’ve had further funds from the Fofana deal and as Rodgers was a Ward fan, he would’ve had no intention to use funds to buy a replacement. 

The Fofana deal went through on the 31st of August. After a month of haggling for 70m, we spent 15m on Wout Faes on the 1st of September.  

 

Chelsea pay were due to pay two instalments of £23,166,666 and £23,166,167 in February and August 2023 (46m), which is known because we took out a bridging loan with Macquarie Bank and the instalments are documented. 

 

We received the remaining 24m upfront in the summer, of which we spent 15m on Faes. 

 

So, I would argue there was money for a goalkeeper if we chose to do so. 

 

Or we could have done a Forest and signed some like Keylor Navas on a loan.

 

 

[murphy]

33 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Why are we hanging onto the wish we offered Kasper a new contract?

He was highest paid (unless Vardy pip'd him)
He's now 37
Yes he might have been able to save us from relegation
but the knock on for that would be:-
He's 37
He would be taking a large portion of our premier lge wage bill
we would probably still have Rodgers as manager
we wouldn't have Mads
We wouldn't be playing the way we are therefore players like Vestergaard would be redundant
 

You forgot the hundred million pounds or so that we would also have by staying up.

 

 

[Beachyboy]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:06, RoboFox said:

This. 

 

Pretty sure it's common knowledge that Rodgers and Schmeichel didn't get on and it's been implied that Rodgers saw Schmeichel's personality, influence in the dressing room and around the club as a threat to his authority. 

 

I think the wage demands were not the biggest factor in him moving on.

 

Whether you like Kasper or not we could of replaced Rogers with pretty much anyone and stayed up if Kasper stays, I think Dean Smith would of kept us up last season with a whole season. It is what it is we move on, Kasper was coming to the end for 2 seasons for me. He was still premiership standard, in his pomp a top 8 goalkeeper I think.

[Reg Vardy]

Lot of opinion, lacking fact…..we may well have stayed up, we may not, we’ll never know….we let him go…..says everything….

[BKLFox]

34 minutes ago, murphy said:

You forgot the hundred million pounds or so that we would also have by staying up.

 

 

Depending on which source you take the pot from we got for being relegated was between £106m-£134m regardless, had we finished 1 place higher & stayed up it would have brought an additional £3m but we were a basket case with regards to cashflow & FFP etc & that additional cash would have been as useful as giving it to the NHS ie gone in a day.

Ok your right if we want to compare apples & apples then yes this season we won't get as much for winning the title than maybe the bottom club gets in the premier lge & I believe we don't get parachute payments if we go straight back up but what relegation has allowed us to do is pretty much balance ourselves easier than if we were then trying to fight another season in the premier league.

I think 1 season in the championship (hopefully) will have a longer financial & structural benefit than trying to keep afloat in a league that was slowly bankrupting us after we pushed ourselves to challenge & reward.

[MPH]

On 11/12/2023 at 03:25, shen said:

It's funny how so many object to being paid or rewarded based on past achievements. So many of us start our careers on low wages, often with a sensation of being underpaid.

We're being taught to prove our worth in order to earn more, so in many respects we're not rewarded until we achieve something.

 

It's the same with all our title winning players - we're still paying Vardy and Albrighton high wages, in great part due to their contribution to our previous successes.

 

As for his 'general attitude', that seems completely unfounded. Smells more of personal dislike, which is entirely fair, but then just say that.

 

 

Kasper was a grumpy bugger, that's for sure. wasn't very nice, at times, to some of the ground staff and would go off on them if he ever got any sand on his gloves for instance ( from minor pitch repairs/ maintenance). 

 

But here's the thing - he was one of the best and you don't  get to be one of the best without having extremely high standards. think, to a lesser extent, a GK version of Roy Keane. Trouble is when  you start to decline because of age and you still act like you are one of the worlds best, it can cause friction. With regards to the contract he wanted paying like he was one of the worlds best and we couldn't afford that/ didn't want to. There was also some talk at the club that he may have deliberately priced himself out of our reach as he was getting itchy feet and also saw the direction the club was heading in..

[murphy]

1 hour ago, BKLFox said:

Depending on which source you take the pot from we got for being relegated was between £106m-£134m regardless, had we finished 1 place higher & stayed up it would have brought an additional £3m but we were a basket case with regards to cashflow & FFP etc & that additional cash would have been as useful as giving it to the NHS ie gone in a day.

Ok your right if we want to compare apples & apples then yes this season we won't get as much for winning the title than maybe the bottom club gets in the premier lge & I believe we don't get parachute payments if we go straight back up but what relegation has allowed us to do is pretty much balance ourselves easier than if we were then trying to fight another season in the premier league.

I think 1 season in the championship (hopefully) will have a longer financial & structural benefit than trying to keep afloat in a league that was slowly bankrupting us after we pushed ourselves to challenge & reward.

With PL money and status we could have attracted PL quality players.  We had a squad more than capable of staying in the PL while completing a full overhaul, under the right leadership.  Relegation was a travesty for this squad.  We would also not have had to sell Barnes and likely got a price for Maddison closer to his his actual value.

 

Relegation lcost us literally tens of millions of pounds and puts us back a decade.  I can never agree that it could be spun into some kind of a positive.

[BKLFox]

17 minutes ago, murphy said:

With PL money and status we could have attracted PL quality players.  We had a squad more than capable of staying in the PL while completing a full overhaul, under the right leadership.  Relegation was a travesty for this squad.  We would also not have had to sell Barnes and likely got a price for Maddison closer to his his actual value.

 

Relegation lcost us literally tens of millions of pounds and puts us back a decade.  I can never agree that it could be spun into some kind of a positive.

We couldn't attract anyone due to cost of transfer & wages, the chaff would have gone anyway due to contracts ending but trying to keep hold of Barnes & Castagne on premier lge wages?? Maddison yes we would have probably got 10-15m more for him which isn't a great deal in the big scheme.
That squad was not capable of competing in the premier lge whilst trying to complete a full overhaul no chance, also would Top of got rid of Rodgers?

 

Relegation hasn't put us back a decade, we were sleep walking into a catastrophe living & spending beyond are means after pushing ourselves to compete for top 4, it would have just delayed the inevitable or even worse.
At least going down this year we could still financially outmuscle most of the championship clubs, if we marked time for another couple of seasons trying to mix it in the premier lge before succumbing to potential financial cripplement then that would have put us back a decade or worse.

 

As for " I can never agree that it could be spun into some kind of a positive." do you not think dropping to Lge 1 was a positive, i've said this before but if we stayed up in the championship you can bet that the following 14yrs we had would not have happened. I feel this is a mini version of that, it was needed to take stock & get back on an even keel out of the firing line.

 

 

Edited 13 December 2023 by BKLFox

[murphy]

1 minute ago, BKLFox said:

We couldn't attract anyone due to cost of transfer & wages, the chaff would have gone anyway due to contracts ending but trying to keep hold of Barnes & Castagne on premier lge wages?? Maddison yes we would have probably got 10-15m more for him which isn't a great deal in the big scheme.
That squad was not capable of competing in the premier lge whilst trying to complete a full overhaul no chance, also would Top of got rid of Rodgers?

 

Relegation hasn't put us back a decade, we were sleep walking into a catastrophe living & spending beyond are means after pushing ourselves to compete it would have just delayed the inevitable or even worse.
At least going down this year we could still financially outmuscle most of the championship clubs, if we marked time for another couple of seasons trying to mix it in the premier lge before succumbing to potential financial cripplement then that would have put us back a decade or worse.

 

As for " I can never agree that it could be spun into some kind of a positive." do you not think dropping to Lge 1 was a positive, i've said this before but if we stayed up in the championship you can bet that the following 14yrs we had would not have happened. I feel this is a mini version of that, it was needed to take stock & get back on an even keel out of the firing line.

Yes, in hindsight, I can understand that we had to fall to our lowest ebb (League One) before we could climb again, but the financial difference between The Championship and League One is negligible compared to the PL and The Championship.  It did irritate me however, that we were one of 8 clubs never to have played in the third tier and now there are only 7 of them.

 

Anyway, I think we can agree to disagree on the rest.