LCFC 0 - 1 Hull Post Match Thread

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, nettle said:

What worries me is Enzo seems to play Dewsbury Hall and N'didi together and neither look after the ball that well in crucial positions in the team. Also neither of them are very creative especially N'didi. Trouble is apart from Casadei who else do we play in these positions.

You have to remember that enzo's working with a lot of young and/or new players - and he clearly feels that whilst everyone is new to the system, KDH and Ndidi are the more experienced.  Throwing casadei and mcateer into such crucial positions is a huge risk.  Also, with so many new players and so much rotation (i assume he's still evaluating the abilities/roles of his wingers), it's going to be difficult for the #8s to know what to expect from the players around them, and also that nacho is hopeless right now and offers very little support - maybe we need to just give them all time before we dismiss them outright.

[inckley fox]

8 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

This is actually a really crucial point - of the 21 shots we had, nacho managed 1, vardy 2 - that's simply not good enough.

It would help if people played the positive ball in the final third occasionally. Have they all bought into the mantra of undying patience at all costs? Except for when someone, often KDH, twats the ball at goal from 25 yards when they have options on.

 

I do worry, as I said the other day, that Maresca is averse to urgency. And yet we only seem to pick up points when it gets to the final 15 minutes and the patience goes out of the window.

 

I honestly think he needs to temper some of his ideas with some realism.

 

Equally, as fans, we have to have the patience to see if he can advance this, or whether it just stagnates into a horribly predictable and easily-exposed way of playing. And, as such, shame on the fans who were leaving at 85 minutes. Given that we can't win games until beyond that point these days, I can only assume... (I don't even want to finish the sentence because it's too offensive.)

[WigstonWanderer]

I thought there was something ineffective about our press today. They seemed to be able to play though it quite easily at times. Can’t quite put my finger on the difference between when it is effective and when it isn’t.

[Les-TA-Jon]

3 hours ago, adejo92 said:

You genuinely think we have?

 

Oh dear, your in for a shock over the next few weeks.

 

This result wasn't a shock, the real shock was how we've managed to take so many points thus far.

It’s tricky because you literally said “we haven’t look good at any point in any game this season” which is just so patently false and it’s easy to demonstrate that at the very least we’ve look good for at least some points of some games so far. 

[Lillehamring]

19 minutes ago, Beachyboy said:

On an Amazon special about Football they have an episode called chance. They suggest Chance/luck plays a factor in one out of every 3 football matches, due to the low scoring nature of the game. Really our FA cup win was hugely fortunate not only the final but other moments in the run. I guess we all want a see us win comfortably, but it's a whole new team, the process isn't always linear.

Not really putting this down to luck.  It's more that when you strike a ball there's only so much control you have on it - even something like youri's goal in the FA cup final - and especially shots like vardy's header, he connects really well, then it's just a question of has he got his head exactly right, he can't see the post, he just has to base it on...experience?

 

sadly football isn't like snooker, more often than not, the kiss isn't quite right, today, sadly,(damn you law of averages) that wasn't the case,

[Ricey]

5 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

I do worry, as I said the other day, that Maresca is averse to urgency. And yet we only seem to pick up points when it gets to the final 15 minutes and the patience goes out of the window.)

I always look at him when our play becomes slow and predictable and he never seems bothered. Even Rodgers would do his stupid little hand clap.

 

I think the lack of urgency will remain, we just have to hope that as the team settles in it will create some fluidity.

[Number 6]

Tbf on another day the Fatawu shot and the Vardy header go in and we win 2-1. Just got to learn from it and move on.

[Fox 4 Life]

They were terrible, time wasting from 40mins but at then end of the day we couldn't beak them down. Long season, we go again. START ABDUL 

[inckley fox]

Just now, Ricey said:

I always look at him when our play becomes slow and predictable and he never seems bothered. Even Rodgers would do his stupid little hand clap.

 

I think the lack of urgency will remain, we just have to hope that as the team settles in it will create some fluidity.

I just don't believe that a blanket aversion to urgency works. We only seem to compete in games when we go for it and the tactics are out of the window.

[Lillehamring]

19 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

I don't know about that. I thought that for an away side they more than earned their point and got into all sorts of promising positions without sustaining pressure. Our tactics didn't, nor do generally, allow our superiority to tell.

 

I've said repeatedly, in spite of the results, that I'm still unconvinced that this is the way to make quality exert itself. If Maresca is entrenched in this unflinching vision of what brings success, he'll be in trouble. If he's willing to adapt, switch things, and learn, we needn't panic too much. But I do worry that we're over-complicating things.

 

We look like a style which isn't hard to set up against. We over-complicate possession, they pick the ball and switch it out wide instantly because they know that we build with a narrow shape.

 

When we're winning, it's our vastly superior quality which is showing and, as of yet, the only benefit of our tactical approach is that sides gradually get knackered by our constant, largely meaningless, and entirely uninspiring passing game. We're not actually putting anyone to the knife. And it's not going to rouse the crowd either (if anything can).

Not saying we were immaculate defensively, but they were less threatening than anyone we've played before, or our defence was better than in previous games, either way, they didn't have 'plenty' of pressure - not according to the heat map at least...

[Dickov22]

Really think Maresca just needs to find a settled 11. Too many changes and don’t blame him for that at all- he’s trying to work out what his best team is. So many ins and outs but now he knows who his squad is until Jan, he can focus on getting the 11 into a rhythm. 

[Lonsdalefox]

Results wise it's been beyond my expectations so far this season but my god that was tepid today bar Fatuwa's little cameo which could have easily ended with an early bath.

 

Very little point a centre forward being on the pitch I felt. Didn't notice Ndidi at all. Winks was neat but not prepared to take any risks. Faes probably our best player.

[Claudio Fannieri]

I know I am going to be labelled a blue monger or happy clapper but I really don’t think the tactics were the issue, we created lots of good opportunities but this one was on the players for me as there were so many poor decisions, poor passes in the final 3rd,  we had 21 shots so clearly we got into good areas but lacked the composure and quality to capitalise when we did get into good areas. 
 

Maresca was proactive with his substitutions it was good to see him make changes at just over 50 minutes. 
 

Hull shithoused the win, the ref was honking and the game should have gone to at least another 5 minutes of added on time. Hull were literally just hoofing it away at any opportunity, we pretty much dominated every aspect of the game but just couldn’t convert our territorial advantage into clear cut chances, but as I said earlier that wasn’t down to our tactics or tempo or Hull’s dogged defending it was purely down to some brain dead decision making, lack of composure and poor technique at crucial times. 
 

Fatawu looks a player, another couple of weeks training and working on system will do us no end of good. As disappointing as todays result is, we have still had a great start to the season and this is with a squad that has had a big overhaul not only in personnel but also manager and playing style. There will be bumps in the road but as fans we can play our part, support the process and be patient. 

[Lillehamring]

25 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

I don't know about that. I thought that for an away side they more than earned their point and got into all sorts of promising positions without sustaining pressure. Our tactics didn't, nor do generally, allow our superiority to tell.

 

I've said repeatedly, in spite of the results, that I'm still unconvinced that this is the way to make quality exert itself. If Maresca is entrenched in this unflinching vision of what brings success, he'll be in trouble. If he's willing to adapt, switch things, and learn, we needn't panic too much. But I do worry that we're over-complicating things.

 

We look like a style which isn't hard to set up against. We over-complicate possession, they pick the ball and switch it out wide instantly because they know that we build with a narrow shape.

 

When we're winning, it's our vastly superior quality which is showing and, as of yet, the only benefit of our tactical approach is that sides gradually get knackered by our constant, largely meaningless, and entirely uninspiring passing game. We're not actually putting anyone to the knife. And it's not going to rouse the crowd either (if anything can).

Also, i don't think we overcomplicate it - it's actually very simple - the problem is when one tries to do something unfamiliar it always looks more complicated. 

[StriderHiryu]

 

 

[inckley fox]

2 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Not saying we were immaculate defensively, but they were less threatening than anyone we've played before, or our defence was better than in previous games, either way, they didn't have 'plenty' of pressure - not according to the heat map at least...

Our chances weren't good chances. They were snatches. I thought they caused us more problems than they should have, and us less than we should have. And they won. Maybe the heat maps say that everything was wonderful, I don't know. To me, we can have no complaints at losing to a considerably inferior side. You either learn from that or bleat about how hard done-by you were.

[CosbehFox]

Shame some of our squad won’t arrive back until Wednesday before our next game on a Friday 

[Lillehamring]

17 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

It would help if people played the positive ball in the final third occasionally. Have they all bought into the mantra of undying patience at all costs? Except for when someone, often KDH, twats the ball at goal from 25 yards when they have options on.

 

I do worry, as I said the other day, that Maresca is averse to urgency. And yet we only seem to pick up points when it gets to the final 15 minutes and the patience goes out of the window.

 

I honestly think he needs to temper some of his ideas with some realism.

 

Equally, as fans, we have to have the patience to see if he can advance this, or whether it just stagnates into a horribly predictable and easily-exposed way of playing. And, as such, shame on the fans who were leaving at 85 minutes. Given that we can't win games until beyond that point these days, I can only assume... (I don't even want to finish the sentence because it's too offensive.)

I think, right now, it's finding that balance between too much patience sometimes in our build up, and too much hurry, at times, in our shooting.  But, much as i suggested about the 'overcomplication' suggestion, until something becomes natural it'll always be harder work - given time, when the system and tactics are fully adopted, and the players more familiar with each other, things should balance out, it's all a learning process right now, and finding these balances will be the last part of the puzzle.

[Lillehamring]

16 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

It’s tricky because you literally said “we haven’t look good at any point in any game this season” which is just so patently false and it’s easy to demonstrate that at the very least we’ve look good for at least some points of some games so far. 

Ah, FT - home of the Absolute Hyperbole.

[Lillehamring]

15 minutes ago, Ricey said:

I always look at him when our play becomes slow and predictable and he never seems bothered. Even Rodgers would do his stupid little hand clap.

 

I think the lack of urgency will remain, we just have to hope that as the team settles in it will create some fluidity.

Not true - he was incredibly animated, at times furious on the touchline today.

[Lillehamring]

13 minutes ago, Dickov22 said:

Really think Maresca just needs to find a settled 11. Too many changes and don’t blame him for that at all- he’s trying to work out what his best team is. So many ins and outs but now he knows who his squad is until Jan, he can focus on getting the 11 into a rhythm. 

It's true - but when you have 5 brand new, very young wingers you have to play them in matchday situations to really see how they react and where their strengths lie.

[inckley fox]

2 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Also, i don't think we overcomplicate it - it's actually very simple - the problem is when one tries to do something unfamiliar it always looks more complicated. 

I don't know. If you see an easy positive ball then - very occasionally, at least - play it. If, instead, you recycle possession endlessly until one of your players has to jab an aimless ball upfield, or you give it away in a dangerous area and allow the opposition in, then to me that's unnecessary over-complication. And, over time, very easy for opponents to prepare for. I understand that this will happen from time to time, but when it happens repeatedly without any threat from us in the interim period, you do have to wonder whether we're making the most of what we have to offer. Which, in theory, should be a lot.

 

Up to now, we're scraping through, or not, by the skin of our teeth, as we try to play a shape which literally nobody at this level has ever played before, and achieve possession stats which only Russell Martin would aspire to. I'm not sure we're going about this the easy way.

[Grebfromgrebland]

I think as soon as Hull decided to play a low block we should've got casadei on and subbed one of kdh or ndidi.

 

 

[Ricey]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

Not true - he was incredibly animated, at times furious on the touchline today.

He gets wound up when we waste chances or possession, but he looks calm at the points where the fans are getting restless with the lack of urgency.

[Lillehamring]

11 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

Our chances weren't good chances. They were snatches. I thought they caused us more problems than they should have, and us less than we should have. And they won. Maybe the heat maps say that everything was wonderful, I don't know. To me, we can have no complaints at losing to a considerably inferior side. You either learn from that or bleat about how hard done-by you were.

The heat maps show that they sat very deep and barely came out of their half, by way of demonstrating that they hardly troubled us at all.  And the few chances they did have were far from problematic.