EFL Officiating Abomination Journal 23/24

[Robo61]

11 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

I suggest you do so yourself.

 

The double-jeopardy law states: "Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off."

 

The red would have been for serious foul play, not denial of a goal scoring opportunity.

 

Plus here's a ref forum discussing it:

 

https://refchat.co.uk/threads/two-footed-jump.22501/

Thomas clearly played the ball, so clearly a yellow as stated in the law you quote.

[Nod.E]

If that's a red then every mistimed slide tackle is a red. Are we basically suggesting that to slide you have to be sure you win the ball, otherwise you're sent off?

 

Wasn't a high foot, not dangerous. 

 

Stupid? Yeah. Not a red though.

[orangecity23]

5 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

Thomas clearly played the ball, so clearly a yellow as stated in the law you quote.

Did you ignore the bit where it says if its aapplies if it is an offence that denies a goal scoring opportunity? This foul wasn't one that did that, he wasn't the last man. If a red would be given it would be for serious foul play/endangering an opponent. So the double jeopardy wouldn;t apply BECAUSE IT WASN'T DENYING A GOAL SCORING OPPORTUNITY.

 

Edit - did you read the ref forum thread? Quotes below:

 

Quote

DOGSO would be a yellow and a penalty if he attempted to play the ball, but SFP is always a red.

 

Quote

Punish the more serious offence.
SFP more serious than DOGSO so the so called double jeopardy rules don't apply.

 

Quote

Double jeopardy is only for DOGSO, so no

 

Edited 13 January by orangecity23

[Robo61]

19 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

Did you ignore the bit where it says if its aapplies if it is an offence that denies a goal scoring opportunity? This foul wasn't one that did that, he wasn't the last man. If a red would be given it would be for serious foul play/endangering an opponent. So the double jeopardy wouldn;t apply BECAUSE IT WASN'T DENYING A GOAL SCORING OPPORTUNITY.

 

Edit - did you read the ref forum thread? Quotes below:

 

 

 

 

Ok I stand corrected but not convinced by the serious foul play argument but now agree he could have been dismissed.

[Winchesterfox]

45 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

If that's a red then every mistimed slide tackle is a red. Are we basically suggesting that to slide you have to be sure you win the ball, otherwise you're sent off?

 

Wasn't a high foot, not dangerous. 

 

Stupid? Yeah. Not a red though.

Here's how I think it works.  A mistimed tackle that is careless is a foul with no booking (unless you foul repeatedly)   If it's reckless it's a yellow.  And if it endangers an opponent's safety it's a red.    It's not about whether you win the ball or not.  You can still win the ball and endanger an opponent, which is what Thomas did when he caught Dewsbury Hall on the knee, and why he was lucky to stay on the pitch.  

Fatawu lunged straight at his opponent at speed.  He tackled low but he was out of control and on another day I think he could break his opponent's ankle.  And that makes it endangering an opponent and a straight red.   I appreciate others may see it differently.  I do agree it was a stupid tackle, as it was neither creating or defending a good chance, so why take the risk?

There is broader question about whether the rules have gone too far, and we should allow tackles like Fatawu's.  I hate with a passion all the diving and rolling around with pretend injuries, which is why I don't miss the Prem anywhere near as much as I thought I would.  But I agree with the sanctions for tackles that genuinely endanger opponents.   

[Foxmeister]

1 hour ago, Robo61 said:

Thomas clearly played the ball, so clearly a yellow as stated in the law you quote.

The debate is for dangerous play surely? In that case double jeopardy doesn't apply, that's only for denying a goal scoring opportunity.

[Bert]

On 02/01/2024 at 17:37, Fox forever said:

For us older folk Sam Allison is son of Wayne a big old fashioned centre forward 

Wayne Allison is 55. 
Sam Allison is 43. I don’t think so. 

[Bert]

As said in the post match thread. I didn’t think it was a penalty at the time, I was other side of the ground. But seeing it back, my biggest question is how is it not a red? 
 

Thought Abdul’s was a red and still leaning towards that it is. The pace he goes into the tackle and the lateness of it is bad. We’d be screaming for a red. England couldn’t wait to get his red card out mind. 

[Bert]

1 hour ago, Robo61 said:

Thomas clearly played the ball, so clearly a yellow as stated in the law you quote.

But he wasn’t “DOGSO” for me it’s serious foul play. 

[AllGoneTitsSchlupp]

2 minutes ago, Bert said:

As said in the post match thread. I didn’t think it was a penalty at the time, I was other side of the ground. But seeing it back, my biggest question is how is it not a red? 
 

Thought Abdul’s was a red and still leaning towards that it is. The pace he goes into the tackle and the lateness of it is bad. We’d be screaming for a red. England couldn’t wait to get his red card out mind. 

Agree. Hadn’t even appealed for the penalty and it was down in front of me. Looking at replays, it looks like assault

Edited 13 January by AllGoneTitsSchlupp

[Paninistickers]

18 minutes ago, Bert said:

Wayne Allison is 55. 
Sam Allison is 43. I don’t think so. 

Maybe related to big Malcolm Allison? 

 

 

[FrankieADZ]

gonna say the state of officials from the premier to league 2 to non league is honestly shocking, dont know how its gone backwards so much

[FrankieADZ]

see Sam Alisson is having another good game tho

[CosbehFox]

4 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Thing is, that confetti wasn't even consistent. Palmer takes out KDH from behind to stop a counter, no card. Winks pulls down their player to stop a counter, card. Zero consistency and honestly seemed like the cov fans booing the penalty decision made him bottle everything else.

That decision got me today. Allows Palmer to get away with because he’s on a yellow. Punishes Winks for a very similar offence 

[Nod.E]

1 hour ago, Winchesterfox said:

Here's how I think it works.  A mistimed tackle that is careless is a foul with no booking (unless you foul repeatedly)   If it's reckless it's a yellow.  And if it endangers an opponent's safety it's a red.    It's not about whether you win the ball or not.  You can still win the ball and endanger an opponent, which is what Thomas did when he caught Dewsbury Hall on the knee, and why he was lucky to stay on the pitch.  

Fatawu lunged straight at his opponent at speed.  He tackled low but he was out of control and on another day I think he could break his opponent's ankle.  And that makes it endangering an opponent and a straight red.   I appreciate others may see it differently.  I do agree it was a stupid tackle, as it was neither creating or defending a good chance, so why take the risk?

There is broader question about whether the rules have gone too far, and we should allow tackles like Fatawu's.  I hate with a passion all the diving and rolling around with pretend injuries, which is why I don't miss the Prem anywhere near as much as I thought I would.  But I agree with the sanctions for tackles that genuinely endanger opponents.   

The problem is, football is a sport in which injuries happen all the time. I'm not sure the velocity at which you slide into a tackle necessarily means you're putting your opponent in any more danger than if you were to, say, nudge them when in close proximity to an oncoming player.

 

Are we trying to achieve some sort of utopian world whereby players don't get injured on the field of play? It feels like that's what we're aiming for. Doing so doesn't guarantee the safety of players, but does damage the spectacle of the game.

 

I don't think any tackle in which feet stay on the ground should result in a red. And on the point of speed, it will just result in inconsistency. How are we supposed to know where the line is between a 'passionate tackle' and a 'reckless lunge'? Is it when they exceed 10mph during their slide?

 

Just stick to high, studs showing = red, with the odd exception such as Jimenez the other week when he jumped into the guy's head.

[Sly]

4 hours ago, Wymsey said:

It's games like today's where wished the referee was microphoned.

The sooner this happens, the better. 

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, FrankieADZ said:

see Sam Alisson is having another good game tho

The difference that having played to any level makes, understands the players, understands the game and knows how to manage a game. He's top class 

[Super_horns]

24 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

The difference that having played to any level makes, understands the players, understands the game and knows how to manage a game. He's top class 

He does seem to have that imposing presence too rather than looking weak and confused!

[The Doctor]

14 hours ago, Super_horns said:

He does seem to have that imposing presence too rather than looking weak and confused!

He does, but I think again that's because he's actually played the game to a level and understands the players mindset and how to relate to them, so as a result they respect him more so he has authority rather than being treated like a substitute teacher. How you encourage more like him I don't know given you need a certain level of physical fitness to be a ref so it's not a post retirement option like coaching is, and at every stage of the ladder refs are paid less than players so it's not a financially sensible career move for players I don't know 

[Super_horns]

50 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

He does, but I think again that's because he's actually played the game to a level and understands the players mindset and how to relate to them, so as a result they respect him more so he has authority rather than being treated like a substitute teacher. How you encourage more like him I don't know given you need a certain level of physical fitness to be a ref so it's not a post retirement option like coaching is, and at every stage of the ladder refs are paid less than players so it's not a financially sensible career move for players I don't know 

And players probably don't want to do all the courses I suspect in reality. 

[Wymsey]

17 hours ago, Sly said:

The sooner this happens, the better. 

Think it'll, eventually, happen; but reckon the progress of this happening sooner is being prevented, due to the referee's believing that it'd affect their rights as the main official.

Edited 14 January by Wymsey

[DJ Barry Hammond]

18 hours ago, FrankieADZ said:

gonna say the state of officials from the premier to league 2 to non league is honestly shocking, dont know how its gone backwards so much

Personally, I don’t think this is true.

 

Extensive TV coverage across the divisions and social media means that every contentious decision can be endlessly discussed - and quite often ends up in debates of conflicting opinions.

 

These debates will always involve reflection after several views of an incident, from various angles, with slowed down footage or the perfect still image showing exactly what you want.

 

Referees get none of this, yet even with those advantages fans can’t decide between themselves what the ultimate decision should be so what chance do referees have in gaining any credit? 

[moore_94]

Sounds like Darren England (ref from Cov game) had another shocker tonight in Bristol City vs West Ham?

[UniFox21]

7 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Sounds like Darren England (ref from Cov game) had another shocker tonight in Bristol City vs West Ham?

Didn't send the lad off for this nor give a foul.  

[Super_horns]

And another Bristol City player caught an opponent with a swinging arm too which was missed .

 

Although Benrahma can have few complaints.