Norwich 0-2 LCFC - Post Match Thread

[Sampson]

5 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

Since we've been having discussions about offside, the ball not having to be played forwards and so on, I remembered that odd goal Wolves had ruled out against us a few years back after mucking up a short corner and playing a backwards pass to the taker who had been retreating from an offside position. Then something about it being a corner reminded me of the Cov goal scored against us, as I recall the goalscorers starting position being in the goal, so I took another look. Lo and behold:

 

Because of Hermansen and Faes positions being forward, the only thing that could have kept the Cov scorer onside was the position of the ball. And if Hamer did the usual corner taker thing of sticking it forward a bit and right on the edge of the Quadrant, then Macfazdean is actually offside. I wonder if a VAR would have actually noticed? Linos probably wouldn't even think to check most of the time, as 90% of keepers are starting on the line and there is often a defender on a post as well, so the chances of someone being in an offside position from a corner are tiny.

The rules specifically state you can’t be offside from a corner, throw in or goal kick though.

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

Since we've been having discussions about offside, the ball not having to be played forwards and so on, I remembered that odd goal Wolves had ruled out against us a few years back after mucking up a short corner and playing a backwards pass to the taker who had been retreating from an offside position. Then something about it being a corner reminded me of the Cov goal scored against us, as I recall the goalscorers starting position being in the goal, so I took another look. Lo and behold:

 

Because of Hermansen and Faes positions being forward, the only thing that could have kept the Cov scorer onside was the position of the ball. And if Hamer did the usual corner taker thing of sticking it forward a bit and right on the edge of the Quadrant, then Macfazdean is actually offside. I wonder if a VAR would have actually noticed? Linos probably wouldn't even think to check most of the time, as 90% of keepers are starting on the line and there is often a defender on a post as well, so the chances of someone being in an offside position from a corner are tiny.

Can’t be offside from a corner (even thought technically he is)

 

3 minutes ago, LCFCABC said:

Ball was played backwards so can’t be offside? 

If it was a free kick from there (and not a corner) then he would have been offside, even though the ball was further back when headed than where it started  - it’s the position of the attacker when the ball is played that dictates offside or not and not what direction the ball is struck 

[orangecity23]

Yeah, I've had a mare there, forgot that corners are like Goal kicks and throw ins in that there is no offside direct from them. But the point about backwards passes stands, you can be offside from a backwards pass. It's just that in most circumstances, to get the ball to someone in an offside position, you'd have to pass forwards. Its only in the rare cases where they are running backwards where it can crop up.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, orangecity23 said:

Yeah, I've had a mare there, forgot that corners are like Goal kicks and throw ins in that there is no offside direct from them. But the point about backwards passes stands, you can be offside from a backwards pass. It's just that in most circumstances, to get the ball to someone in an offside position, you'd have to pass forwards. Its only in the rare cases where they are running backwards where it can crop up.

Or a deflection off a defensive player that sends the ball forwards even though it was played backwards 

[sacreblueits442]

4 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

No. I’m just incorrect. Ball did go forward so I guess, effectively, it should have been offside. 

...did you ever see the penalty that was taken when the penalty taker rolled the ball to the side and his teammate who originally was outside the box, came charging through and scored!!!

  So long as the player was effectively behind the player who made the pass, then he would be onside.

 

Edited 21 September 2023 by sacreblueits442
Update.

[ARM1968]

11 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...did you ever see the penalty that was taken when the penalty taker rolled the ball to the side and his teammate who originally was outside the box, came charging through and scored!!!

  So long as the player was effectively behind the player who made the pass, then he would be onside.

 

I did see that yes. That is pretty much the thrust of it to be fair. As long as the player making the pass is ahead of the other player when the pass is made. 

[Lillehamring]

Just been watching the Mcateer goal on loop - what a fantastic goal.

 

I didn't realise at first that the player sequence goes - vesty - mcateer - vardy - macateer - kdh - vardy - kdh- mcateer

 

Also, KDH plays three of the sweetest touches you'll ever see - the one touch pass to vardy is incredible, the cushioned touch to beat the defender and the final assist which he plays whilst looking at the keeper - breathtaking stuff!

[The Quick Brown Fox]

I don't think the ball being played backwards means you can't be offside? Where has that come from? 

 

If Vardy is on the goal line in a offside position, and KDH is on the edge of the box level with the 6 yard line, plays the ball back to the penalty spot and Vardy runs out at the same time from the offside position and scores, he's still offside. 

 

Offside is offside if the balls played forward or back. 

[daverollo]

5 minutes ago, The Quick Brown Fox said:

I don't think the ball being played backwards means you can't be offside? Where has that come from? 

 

If Vardy is on the goal line in a offside position, and KDH is on the edge of the box level with the 6 yard line, plays the ball back to the penalty spot and Vardy runs out at the same time from the offside position and scores, he's still offside. 

 

Offside is offside if the balls played forward or back

FFS, you’ve had a mare

[Mr Weller 2]

4 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

So the quality can never be low?  weird.

By low do you mean it’s not as good as the PL? Hardly a revelation is it?

[The Quick Brown Fox]

5 minutes ago, daverollo said:

FFS, you’ve had a mare

Don't see how! I really haven't. 

 

If a player is offside, he is offside. 

 

If the ball is passed back and the player runs back from an offside position to receive/retrieve the ball, it's offside. 

[sacreblueits442]

6 minutes ago, The Quick Brown Fox said:

Don't see how! I really haven't. 

 

If a player is offside, he is offside. 

 

If the ball is passed back and the player runs back from an offside position to receive/retrieve the ball, it's offside. 

...the answer is where the recipient was when the ball was played!!!

If he is ahead of the player playing the ball then he is offside, if he is behind and even if the ball is played forward he is onside.

[The Quick Brown Fox]

Just now, sacreblueits442 said:

...the answer is where the recipient was when the ball was played!!!

If he is ahead of the player playing the ball then he is offside, if he is behind and even if the ball is played forward he is onside.

Yes, I understand the offside rule 👍, just not getting any of this you can't be offside when the ball is played backwards. 

 

Trying to explain it with the Vardy situation. 

 

Offside = being ahead of the ball and not having at least 2 opposition players between you and the goal when the ball is played to you. Hope that is clear enough. 

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

6 minutes ago, The Quick Brown Fox said:

Yes, I understand the offside rule 👍, just not getting any of this you can't be offside when the ball is played backwards. 

 

Trying to explain it with the Vardy situation. 

 

Offside = being ahead of the ball and not having at least 2 opposition players between you and the goal when the ball is played to you. Hope that is clear enough. 

 

 

...the Vardy scenario is pretty convoluted!!!

If KDH chooses to play a ball back to the edge of the box from his position on the 6-yard line, he is obviously not playing the ball back to Vardy. If Vardy should choose to run back and attempt to play the ball, it could be interpreted that he had gained an unfair advantage having been in his original position. That more likely would come down to the interpretation of the referee. 

  Simply if the recipient was ahead of the player making the pass, and the pass was behind him and behind the player making the pass, and he had to check his run to go and retrieve the ball then he would be offside.

[Daggers]

6 hours ago, Daggers said:

I’m a tad annoyed that the one I made with appropriate lighting and an LCFC flag didn’t upload for some reason. 
 

…but you know you want to, eh. 
 

 

[Sooper Steve's shin]

11 hours ago, brookfox said:

I’ve got two challenges with it. Firstly I still think there’s an element of subjectivity based on which frame they freeze it at, how the lines are drawn, the angle the camera takes the shots from. You get it now where pundits still debate decisions so it’s not as black and white as say Hawkeye for goal lines. Secondly it seems to be the offside decisions which take the longest so lend themselves to the poorest in stadium experience. So personally I’d ditch the lines, go back to clear and obvious errors and cap decisions at 30s.

All valid. If the tech was there to make instant offside calls, then I’d be all for it. I’ve been amazed, though, at the positive difference to our viewing experience through not having VAR this season. It will be the downside of going back up when we smash this league…

[dynamark]

Can we do the LBW rule next week

[The Quick Brown Fox]

7 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the Vardy scenario is pretty convoluted!!!

If KDH chooses to play a ball back to the edge of the box from his position on the 6-yard line, he is obviously not playing the ball back to Vardy. If Vardy should choose to run back and attempt to play the ball, it could be interpreted that he had gained an unfair advantage having been in his original position. That more likely would come down to the interpretation of the referee. 

  Simply if the recipient was ahead of the player making the pass, and the pass was behind him and behind the player making the pass, and he had to check his run to go and retrieve the ball then he would be offside.

No, the ref or linesman would not look at it and think " oh he didn't mean to pass it to you, it's ok carry on" the flag would go up instantly and he'd be offside. 

[shen]

22 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...did you ever see the penalty that was taken when the penalty taker rolled the ball to the side and his teammate who originally was outside the box, came charging through and scored!!!

  So long as the player was effectively behind the player who made the pass, then he would be onside.

 

Off topic, but I'd be fuming as the opposition if that penalty stood. The scorer has encroached by a good handful of yards there.

 

19 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the Vardy scenario is pretty convoluted!!!

If KDH chooses to play a ball back to the edge of the box from his position on the 6-yard line, he is obviously not playing the ball back to Vardy. If Vardy should choose to run back and attempt to play the ball, it could be interpreted that he had gained an unfair advantage having been in his original position. That more likely would come down to the interpretation of the referee. 

  Simply if the recipient was ahead of the player making the pass, and the pass was behind him and behind the player making the pass, and he had to check his run to go and retrieve the ball then he would be offside.

It really isn't that convoluted. It can happen quite easily during goalmouth scrambles, botched counters etc.

[Naat]

 

Those who cannot do this should not be a star football player 😁