The Enzo Thread

[Bugg]

10 minutes ago, HesNotGudjonsonn2 said:

I meant as a team grows and improves over a longer time period not within a few months. Over a couple of seasons. Look at Arsenal under Arteta, it takes time. 

Arsenal have spent about £600m to be where they are today. 

[HesNotGudjonsonn2]

Just now, SouthStandUpperTier said:

And money. Lots of it. Arsenal have got almost limitless resources to acquire the players needed to play Pep-ball. We haven't. We've got a mixture of bottom-half Prem players and decent Championship players. What we're doing is the equivalent trying to put on a production of King Lear, with the cast of Hollyoaks.

You have to let players have the time to adapt and learn their roles. Scout for cheaper up and coming players and train them in that way. Yes it is of course easier if you have tons of money, but a change of system is always going to take time and need to develop.

[Basildon Fox]

6 minutes ago, HesNotGudjonsonn2 said:

You have to let players have the time to adapt and learn their roles. Scout for cheaper up and coming players and train them in that way. Yes it is of course easier if you have tons of money, but a change of system is always going to take time and need to develop.

But it is quite clearly getting worse, not better!

 

I have said before and will repeat again.  A poor to good manager will adopt an unfliching way of playing from long ball to tippy tappy bollocks and everything in between.  A very good to great manager will get the best out of what he has and will adapt to how he wants with time.

 

Which category do you feel Enzo is in?

Edited 10 April by Basildon Fox

[HesNotGudjonsonn2]

2 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

But it is quite clearly getting worse, not better!

 

I have said before and will repeat again.  A poor to good manager will adopt an unfliching way of playing from long ball to tippy tappy bollocks and everything in between.  A very good to great manager will get the best out of what he has and will adapt to how he wants with time.

 

Which category do you feel Enzo is in?

As I mentioned in my original post, I am willing to wait and see to give the team and manager both time to develop and grow.

 

Time will tell.  

[Basildon Fox]

Just now, HesNotGudjonsonn2 said:

As I mentioned in my original post, I am willing to wait and see to give the team and manager both time to develop and grow.

 

Time will tell.  

Think that time may already be up mate. He shows no sign of adapting despite what everyone can see with their own eyes.

[James_lcfc]

Yeah but Guillem Balagué says he's a visionary.

[cityfanlee23]

40 minutes ago, HesNotGudjonsonn2 said:

I meant as a team grows and improves over a longer time period not within a few months. Over a couple of seasons. Look at Arsenal under Arteta, it takes time. 

True, but under Arteta we saw them making constant improvements, even at the beginning where they were struggling for points, they played okay and adapted, we have been average for months, and even in most games we have won we havent exactly been amazing. 
Pep took a season or so to get going, the difference is, Pep and Arteta actually changed their system and adapted it. We don't have the finances to make this work, unless of course people think Rudkin can pull out 8-10 rabbits out of hats. 

Edited 10 April by cityfanlee23

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, LC1884FC said:

The people that did the banners were still singing for him at the last home game, what's your point?

Quite a simple point, in the space of a cpl of months he isn't as popular as he was, and how times have changed. Not difficult really

[Stadt]

If he's going to be this dogmatic then he's not the right manager at all for the financial situation we're in.

 

All managers would like to 100% pursue their vision, he's the only one unwilling to compromise on anything. If he's relying on a turnover of 15 players to achieve his vision whilst we lose tens of millions a season he's unfit for the job.

 

McKenna has some L1 jobbers on a par with us so Enzo doing this with a PL team is pathetic.

[dmayne7]

13 minutes ago, Stadt said:

If he's going to be this dogmatic then he's not the right manager at all for the financial situation we're in.

 

All managers would like to 100% pursue their vision, he's the only one unwilling to compromise on anything. If he's relying on a turnover of 15 players to achieve his vision whilst we lose tens of millions a season he's unfit for the job.

 

McKenna has some L1 jobbers on a par with us so Enzo doing this with a PL team is pathetic.

This notion of needing the sign players to got the system is a nonsense. That's fair enough when you don't have the quality to compete in a league but even if some of these guys aren't best suited to it, they're still a cut above so it really shouldn't be an issue. A problem in the PL for sure but that's why you have to adapt to the current group of players. He doesn't have to abandon his philosophy, just tweak it slightly.

 

To come into such a strong squad and feel that you need to rip it to shreds in terms of playing style, is poor management

[Stadt]

Just now, dmayne7 said:

This notion of needing the sign players to got the system is a nonsense. That's fair enough when you don't have the quality to compete in a league but even if some of these guys aren't best suited to it, they're still a cut above so it really shouldn't be an issue. A problem in the PL for sure but that's why you have to adapt to the current group of players. He doesn't have to abandon his philosophy, just tweak it slightly.

 

To come into such a strong squad and feel that you need to rip it to shreds in terms of playing style, is poor management

A more standard possession focussed 433, would create far more.

 

Whats the point in the extra man in midfield when you’re already overloading the centre and the wings are so underloaded the wingers are useless.

 

Pereira especially would cause way more problems going beyond the winger as an option.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Basildon Fox said:

But it is quite clearly getting worse, not better!

 

I have said before and will repeat again.  A poor to good manager will adopt an unfliching way of playing from long ball to tippy tappy bollocks and everything in between.  A very good to great manager will get the best out of what he has and will adapt to how he wants with time.

 

Which category do you feel Enzo is in?

Well as he is so inexperienced, does it need an answer? Or were you expecting a very good inexperienced manager? 

[BenTheFox]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Well as he is so inexperienced, does it need an answer? Or were you expecting a very good inexperienced manager? 

McKenna isn't a very experienced first-team manager, but he's clearly a very good one. 

[It'sblueupnorth]

2 hours ago, Nalis said:

He's worth keeping if we get promoted, let him have at least the first 10 games or so to see if it works in the premier league.

 

If it doesnt or we don't get promoted this season then it's time for him to go.

Is he? It’s clear as day this won’t work in the premier league with the financial restrictions that will be in place. We won’t be able to buy 4/5/6 first team quality players that this system will need, add to the fact that run of the mill champ managers like Neil Harris are doing a job on him, premier league managers would have a field day. We realistically need to have an eye on bouncing back with a manager following a pts deduction, and one that doesn’t require a style of play that costs millions in players. The problem with enzoball is that it requires the best players and can’t be done on a shoestring, trying to play the way he wants is a money pit and we simply can’t afford to sustain it

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, BenTheFox said:

McKenna isn't a very experienced first-team manager, but he's clearly a very good one. 

Well he is more experienced than Enzo so not sure its relevant, but I think he is absolutely better than Enzo, albeit with a team he has helped sculpt over a longer period of time.

Will Enzo become better after a year more in the job? Not convinced he will, tbh.

 

Blaming Enzo is ill placed, KP chose to go down the philosophy route, employ a guy with a vision so inflexible, so perhaps there should be another target for our ire. 

[sylofox]

On 20/09/2023 at 23:02, SecretPro said:

I know we've got a 'Maresca new manager' and a 'Maresca tactics' thread but he deserves a thread just to discuss the man. 

 

Thought his post march interview tonight was very classy, especially acknowledging the fans coming out and travelling midweek with work commitments etc. 

 

I ****ing love him. 

Do you still love him?

[footballfox]

I don't think he is good enough in PML, at the beginning of this season Fox gained momentum as a big team from PML.

[dmayne7]

9 minutes ago, Stadt said:

A more standard possession focussed 433, would create far more.

 

Whats the point in the extra man in midfield when you’re already overloading the centre and the wings are so underloaded the wingers are useless.

 

Pereira especially would cause way more problems going beyond the winger as an option.

The Ricardo one is odd. He's been great in this system but if he was even a fraction of the player, he was at his peak, he'd be the best conventional full back this league has ever seen. Maybe it is a good move because he doesn't have the same pace as he did before so hard to say if it's been the best decision, especially as it's also neutered JJ somewhat and those are 2 guys who's peak levels are far beyond this league

[sylofox]

1 hour ago, HesNotGudjonsonn2 said:

As I mentioned in my original post, I am willing to wait and see to give the team and manager both time to develop and grow.

 

Time will tell.  

The reason this worked start of the season is the closeness to Rodgers ball. But with one of the strongest squads in the league.

 

His failure to adapt is the problem we now have. Just like Rodgers 1 dimension and when it don't work we have no clue what to do.

 

One cure would be in periods of the game play and break at pace. But the way we play we allow the opposition to fall back and build a defensive wall we can't then break down.

 

Two managers one problem.

[HesNotGudjonsonn2]

23 minutes ago, sylofox said:

The reason this worked start of the season is the closeness to Rodgers ball. But with one of the strongest squads in the league.

 

His failure to adapt is the problem we now have. Just like Rodgers 1 dimension and when it don't work we have no clue what to do.

 

One cure would be in periods of the game play and break at pace. But the way we play we allow the opposition to fall back and build a defensive wall we can't then break down.

 

Two managers one problem.

I agree. We need to make our transitions quicker. Often we get the chance to break and slow down. 

[Fox 4 Life]

Admittedly Norwich didn't really come to play but why did it work so well against them and it doesn't against others. His way of playing is so hit and miss, I just don't get the lack of changes when it clearly isn't working.

[Tielemans63]

Couple of fundamentals need addressing for me: firstly let's stop waiting for chances, and let's start making chances instead. We have the best players in the division. There's no need for us to play so cautiously. Secondly, (linked to the first) why approach Millwall at the Den as though we're playing AC Milan at the San Siro? The mentality is wrong for me and just invites trouble. Approach Championship games like Championship games and not a Europa League semi final. Our strikers have got such a poor conversion rate, it makes little sense to wait for so long to wait for the opposition to make a mistake that we can create a chance from.

 

Throw your ****ing chessboard out the window, Enzo. Or at least put it away until its actually needed.

Edited 10 April by Tielemans63

[CosbehFox]

I think the lack of experience on his bench is telling. Look at who Pep surrounds himself with. One of the assistants is 58 yr old - a very long managerial career which included time with Sampiola. Lillo's worked right across the world. 

 

That's an error not insisting on some experience alongside him. Our assistant and coaches are very green. 

Edited 10 April by CosbehFox

[STUHILL]

I think Enzo is succumbing to fear. Bare with me...

 

He found a formula that worked well for a large chunk of the season. Whether that is more down to the quality of the squad is up for debate though.

 

More recently, we have seen a big drop off in results. A pretty spectacular collapse from an all but certain promotion, to one that is now in the balance. 

 

How has Enzo addressed this rapid decline? Nothing. Why? I believe because his inexperience and a fear of changing a formula that previously worked. 

 

He has stubbornly stuck to the exact same style/tactics and even the same plays over and over. e.g. Ndidi's run for the Fatawa pass which is so predictable and increasingly preventable with many genuine attacking moments stifled by overusing it. 

 

He has also stuck with pretty much the same line-up, no matter how badly someone performed * cough Woet * with players like Coady available. 

 

There also seems to be a fear to make substitutions, and often only occurs when he is forced to and even then, they seem to come too late or not enough made.

 

It feels like Enzo has been caught in the headlights and is freezing in the moment. Long-term, I think this is why he will struggle badly in the Premier League.

 

You have to take risks as a Manager, change a starting line-up, play a different formation or system, make subs at half-time if needed to change a game, and give the opposition something different that they weren't so drilled for. 

 

Any Manager can stick to one system and line-up when things are going well, but the really great Managers are those that can change and adapt to times when things are not going well. Enzo is falling well short of adapting and 'That's Football' and 'It is what it is'... really doesn't cut it. 

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

6 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

Unfortunately, the issue is bigger than Enzo, look at the last few managers we’ve had. The club want a certain type of manager who plays in a certain way. Hence, since Puel all managers we’ve had have received the same complaints and I see the same posts…. Boring, stubborn, no plan B, ego getting in the way, only plays his favourites, I can’t watch this anymore…

Puel, Rodgers, Enzo… it’s all the same Rodgers is just Puel with a Gucci belt, Enzo is an Italian Rodgers…

This is a directive from the club and if Enzo is to leave at the end of the season, you can put your house on the replacement being another carbon copy unless changes are also made higher up.

Yep, we'll be in the same position with the next manager, sadly.