Blackburn 1-4 Foxes - Post Match Thread

[foxes1988]

7 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

I love the style of play but we are “overplaying” at times and need to be more wary of threats. 

 

The pass to Winks just wasn’t on and Faes or Justin would’ve been much better options. 
 

But we’re nine league games in and we will make mistakes. You’d like to think down the line there will be fewer. 

Thing is we were just doing what we're supposed to.  Overplaying it insinuates that we played a pass too many or took a touch too many which isn't really what happened.  We just played the pass at the wrong time and slightly in the wrong direction.  Its a mistake rather then overplaying it, which as you say we should make less and less of the longer we play under this philosophy. 

 

The good thing about yesterday is the team and Enzo can create different tactical shapes to beat that type of press and from a defensive point of view we can create alternative ways to press teams more effectively.  Enzo suggested Blackburn were the most difficult team we've faced in this aspect.

[RowlattsFox]

Playing out rarely worked yesterday, second half we were playing it out to the left just to kick it into midfield and lose the ball. You have to credit Blackburns man marking to an extent as we we struggled to find space. 

 

 

[st albans fox]

16 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Playing out rarely worked yesterday, second half we were playing it out to the left just to kick it into midfield and lose the ball. You have to credit Blackburns man marking to an extent as we we struggled to find space. 

 

 

Impressed with Blackburn’s crowd in that they allowed their team to be v passive as we brought the ball out for a lot longer than most would have done. They either pressed v high and tried to stop us or they completely dropped off. 
 

mavadidi’s cross field pass to fatawu showed a way out of that high press scenario.  Doyle is v good at those too which is why he’s going to be missed on that side. 
 

[Garns77]

I thought the away end was outstanding yesterday! Not a bad beer selection in the concourse either, makes the KP look a shambles! Great day out 

[5waller5]

17 hours ago, foxile5 said:

What's the process then? Everyone mentions it. What is it?

 

Is it like Brendan's system that everyone referenced but couldn't adequately explain.

 

Just outline why it's essential that our keeper must pass to the defenders even if they're under pressure and we don't deviate to that all how, what the process actually is, and how the two meet?

 

Perhaps then I'll understand why my saying 'that needs to change' is dangerous.

The keeper is another player, in possession he is an outfield player.

 

You can’t mark a keeper so someone has to close him down therefore leaving a space.

 

Overloading the opposition when you attack is the aim of this system.

 

So the more players that commit to their press the better. Getting the keeper and centre back to invite 3/4 players to break their marking position and press means that if we pass through them to midfield we have 2 more players than they do.

 

The options for attacking passes or moving with the ball unchallenged open up.

 

We commit to this totally and our 7/8 players attack at speed they’re 5/6 players leading to lots of goal scoring chances. 
 

The risk is they successfully close the keeper or CB down and create a chance themselves. It has to be a possibility otherwise they wouldn’t commit to the press and our system falls apart.

 

So yes, occasionally the opposition will get the reward for the press (Blackburn 1), more often the space it opens up creates chances and goals for us (LCFC 4).

 

I thoroughly enjoy the sophistication of the tactics, but the excitement of the break after tempting the opposition into a trap. Hopefully you can now enjoy it more? 

 

 

[Rupert Von Suckalemon]

Another ridiculous goal conceded because,of mistake by the’ goalkeeper. This playing out 

from the back is fraught with danger, a stupid concept that has crept into the game over a number 

of years. Remember Schmeichel against Bournemouth, total disaster, and that wasn’t the only occasion.

we are not good enough at it. It will continue to happen under this present regime so expect more silly

goals conceded that may ultimately one day cost us a match or two.

[Chelmofox]

5 minutes ago, Rupert Von Suckalemon said:

Another ridiculous goal conceded because,of mistake by the’ goalkeeper. This playing out 

from the back is fraught with danger, a stupid concept that has crept into the game over a number 

of years. Remember Schmeichel against Bournemouth, total disaster, and that wasn’t the only occasion.

we are not good enough at it. It will continue to happen under this present regime so expect more silly

goals conceded that may ultimately one day cost us a match or two.

A grand total of 6 goals conceded all season  

[Tom12345]

3 hours ago, The boy Linacre said:

Probably player of the season so far

Maybe that is Winks, who is at the engine of the way we play, or even Vesty who has done an even more remarkable turnaround!

[casablancas]

58 minutes ago, Rupert Von Suckalemon said:

Another ridiculous goal conceded because,of mistake by the’ goalkeeper. This playing out 

from the back is fraught with danger, a stupid concept that has crept into the game over a number 

of years. Remember Schmeichel against Bournemouth, total disaster, and that wasn’t the only occasion.

we are not good enough at it. It will continue to happen under this present regime so expect more silly

goals conceded that may ultimately one day cost us a match or two.

You can’t really argue with the stats bud, or can you? I’d quite like to see you try actually. 

[Fear Of The Fox]

2 hours ago, Rupert Von Suckalemon said:

Another ridiculous goal conceded because,of mistake by the’ goalkeeper. This playing out 

from the back is fraught with danger, a stupid concept that has crept into the game over a number 

of years. Remember Schmeichel against Bournemouth, total disaster, and that wasn’t the only occasion.

we are not good enough at it. It will continue to happen under this present regime so expect more silly

goals conceded that may ultimately one day cost us a match or two.

I've seen a lot of this kind of posts lately. Some of you simply don't understand the concept of this specific tactic. I can understand it might feel stressful for some of you guys when you're watching it unfold but trust me it really pays off in long term during the games. There are some elements you don't see behind this tactic. It's not a coincidence we're scoring late goals. I'd suggest you read some articles regarding this football tactic and you might change your opinion. 

Enzo isn't stupid, he knows the quality of the players otherwise he wouldn't even think to implement this tactic. I'm quite sure he also has a 3 year plan at least and the Championship is the best place to start building on this. I hope I'm not overrating/overestimating him but I think he's already making plans for the future PL team. He decided to stick with these tactics against a team like Liverpool, there's a bigger plan going here guys and it looks exciting. 

This post might come back to bite me but there's always a possibility we'll come back strong to the PL. 

Edited 2 October 2023 by Fear Of The Fox

[daddylonglegs]

The idea that we'll make mistakes playing this way is fine - but Hermansen's passing was totally mental on two occasions yesterday. One cost a goal and the other probably should've done. 

 

If you're gonna praise him to the hilt for his passing range, you've got to be able to tell it like it is & acknowledge that he got it wrong a few times yday too. That's ok

[Chelmofox]

1 minute ago, daddylonglegs said:

The idea that we'll make mistakes playing this way is fine - but Hermansen's passing was totally mental on two occasions yesterday. One cost a goal and the other probably should've done. 

 

If you're gonna praise him to the hilt for his passing range, you've got to be able to tell it like it is & acknowledge that he got it wrong a few times yday too. That's ok

Of course. He's still learning himself and adapting to teams that might be more aggressive to it. He will make mistakes - we've all said this. Martinez did it against us. We've seen Edersen do it. Mistakes are made in every sport. What's key is how you deal with those mistakes (i.e don't lose all confidence and start making more) and how you can adapt to limit the impact from those mistakes. Yesterday, Ricardo very nearly recovered it for us. 

 

What makes me annoyed is when the method is referred to 'idiotic' without any reference to the benefits. Also, there are posters talking of 'yet another mistake from the goalkeeper', as if Hermansen is some cretin who doesn't know what he is doing.  

[Fear Of The Fox]

15 minutes ago, daddylonglegs said:

The idea that we'll make mistakes playing this way is fine - but Hermansen's passing was totally mental on two occasions yesterday. One cost a goal and the other probably should've done. 

 

If you're gonna praise him to the hilt for his passing range, you've got to be able to tell it like it is & acknowledge that he got it wrong a few times yday too. That's ok

The manager knows about these mistakes and the risk like you and me. As it stands he probably knows also these mistakes will rarely cost us a game in Championship or at least the team has the potential to recover from them. I'm sure Hermansen had today a video review/lesson and further advice how to react in certain situations. 

These mistakes will be severely punished in PL but it's common sense Enzo knows that. 

[The boy Linacre]

2 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

Maybe that is Winks, who is at the engine of the way we play, or even Vesty who has done an even more remarkable turnaround!

Winks was amazing against Cov 1st half, but think hasn't played at that level since to the point where wasn't impressed yesterday.

Vesty yes a better season (the bar was v low to start) BUT we are in the Championship, he would be very exposed in the PL in so many ways and has been.

Wilf is playing football SO different to what he played for us for for the last 6 1/2 years, there are times when it makes you laugh what he is trying to do and occasionally it comes off.

That move will likely be goal of the season, and the cross/pass was a blinder.  Sitting down the defender when he scored against Southampton was unprecedented.  Again not sure how effective in the top flight but we are only 9 games in of 46.  But the BIGGEST turnaround in a different role.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

I've seen a lot of this kind of posts lately. Some of you simply don't understand the concept of this specific tactic. I can understand it might feel stressful for some of you guys when you're watching it unfold but trust me it really pays off in long term during the games. There are some elements you don't see behind this tactic. It's not a coincidence we're scoring late goals. I'd suggest you read some articles regarding this football tactic and you might change your opinion. 

Enzo isn't stupid, he knows the quality of the players otherwise he wouldn't even think to implement this tactic. I'm quite sure he also has a 3 year plan at least and the Championship is the best place to start building on this. I hope I'm not overrating/overestimating him but I think he's already making plans for the future PL team. He decided to stick with these tactics against a team like Liverpool, there's a bigger plan going here guys and it looks exciting. 

This post might come back to bite me but there's always a possibility we'll come back strong to the PL. 

The manager has said it was a mistake. Playing it out from the back wasn’t the problem, a poor decision was the problem. 
 

“Maresca said. "In that goal, the mistake from Mads is not because he plays. He has to play. But he has the choice.

“He should not play with Harry. He has to take a different decision. At the end, we need to learn, it’s normal.”

 

There have been some critical of playing out from the back. And then those ultra defensive of any criticism of the mistake, acting like it should be accepted and it wasn’t too risky.

 

Reality is the middle ground, playing it out from the back is fine, but it was an error and not what the manager wants. 
 

 

[Tom12345]

42 minutes ago, The boy Linacre said:

Winks was amazing against Cov 1st half, but think hasn't played at that level since to the point where wasn't impressed yesterday.

Vesty yes a better season (the bar was v low to start) BUT we are in the Championship, he would be very exposed in the PL in so many ways and has been.

Wilf is playing football SO different to what he played for us for for the last 6 1/2 years, there are times when it makes you laugh what he is trying to do and occasionally it comes off.

That move will likely be goal of the season, and the cross/pass was a blinder.  Sitting down the defender when he scored against Southampton was unprecedented.  Again not sure how effective in the top flight but we are only 9 games in of 46.  But the BIGGEST turnaround in a different role.

Still not convinced but admittedly I am glad he is making himself useful.

 

Did you see that attempted crossover Ndidi tried to make? He fooled himself more than the defender. But that pass was a blinder. He had the right idea and this time it came off.

[Fear Of The Fox]

31 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The manager has said it was a mistake. Playing it out from the back wasn’t the problem, a poor decision was the problem. 
 

“Maresca said. "In that goal, the mistake from Mads is not because he plays. He has to play. But he has the choice.

“He should not play with Harry. He has to take a different decision. At the end, we need to learn, it’s normal.”

 

There have been some critical of playing out from the back. And then those ultra defensive of any criticism of the mistake, acting like it should be accepted and it wasn’t too risky.

 

Reality is the middle ground, playing it out from the back is fine, but it was an error and not what the manager wants. 
 

 

Exactly. This is why I've posted that Enzo knows about these mistakes and he's definitely going to show Hermansen on a video what happened and which were his optimal options. The nature of Championship (46 games, inconsistency etc) provides Enzo more room to work with his tactics and be risky.

In fact, at least at this point of the season, PL is more tight at Top 6 compared to Championship. As things go right now there's a big chance PL top 6 will remain tight unti 12th or 13th round. 

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

The manager has said it was a mistake. Playing it out from the back wasn’t the problem, a poor decision was the problem. 
 

“Maresca said. "In that goal, the mistake from Mads is not because he plays. He has to play. But he has the choice.

“He should not play with Harry. He has to take a different decision. At the end, we need to learn, it’s normal.”

 

There have been some critical of playing out from the back. And then those ultra defensive of any criticism of the mistake, acting like it should be accepted and it wasn’t too risky.

 

Reality is the middle ground, playing it out from the back is fine, but it was an error and not what the manager wants. 
 

 

This exactly. Don’t mind the playing out but needs to be mixed up. If I as a supporter, sitting watching, know exactly which of our defenders is going to receive the ball, then the opposing players and manager definitely do. Just needs to be a bit less predictable. But I haven’t noticed that in other games so maybe we just had a off day in that respect.

[Chelmofox]

Sorry if posted before. Everything about this is brilliant.

 

 

 

Edited 2 October 2023 by Chelmofox

[Philkeavo]

1 hour ago, Chelmofox said:

Sorry if posted before. Everything about this is brilliant.

 

 

 

Some finish that, a proper scorcher!

[Fightforever]

Loss aversion is the whole reason the playing out the back debate is even happening. Its a known fact that people feel losses much more than they feel wins. We’ve scored far more playing out the back this year than we have conceded yet people still moan about it.