Foxdiamond Posted 6 March Share Posted 6 March 5 minutes ago, bovril said: I think US-Europe is less of an axis and more of a servile relationship and since there have been two large wars in Europe in the last 30 or so years I'm not sure if it works anyway. Ultimately the fact that Europeans are currently fretting over a potential Trump presidency and what that will mean for e.g. the defence of Ukraine suggests we would do well not to need to rely on them in the future. The wars have not involved Nato directly and without serious US involvement there would be a serious danger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 6 March Share Posted 6 March 1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said: The wars have not involved Nato directly and without serious US involvement there would be a serious danger It's less than ideal that we have to worry whether the whims of voters in some godforsaken flyover state will lead to Eastern European countries not being able to defend themselves from Russia. We should develop our own capabilities more and if a Trump presidency accelerates that then maybe it's a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 6 March Share Posted 6 March 3 minutes ago, bovril said: It's less than ideal that we have to worry whether the whims of voters in some godforsaken flyover state will lead to Eastern European countries not being able to defend themselves from Russia. We should develop our own capabilities more and if a Trump presidency accelerates that then maybe it's a good thing. Agreed but I don't think Europe could make up the shortfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 6 March Share Posted 6 March 24 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said: Agreed but I don't think Europe could make up the shortfall. The EU is the third largest economy in the world. And we might not have much of a choice. The US is a very different country from the early 2000s it seems, more isolationist and less Atlanticist on both the left and right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 3 hours ago, Foxdiamond said: Agreed but I don't think Europe could make up the shortfall. Of course it could, but it has to choose to. It would be a start for them to meet their NATO spend commitment of 2% of GDP, as Trump demanded last time and no doubt will again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 8 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: Of course it could, but it has to choose to. It would be a start for them to meet their NATO spend commitment of 2% of GDP, as Trump demanded last time and no doubt will again. I agree about the 2% commitment. Just think even with this and plus it would not make up the loss of US involvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 2 hours ago, Foxdiamond said: I agree about the 2% commitment. Just think even with this and plus it would not make up the loss of US involvement It would take a long time 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaphamFox Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 15 hours ago, Daggers said: I don’t see how splitting a European-USA axis would be good for world peace? It wouldn't. But it might increase the UK's chances of getting a new trade deal with the EU on much more favourable terms. Small mercies, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March I think trump realizes the value of an alliance with Europe. You have to put everything he says through the Trump filter. The intel and ‘ extra reach’ that NATO gives the United States is invaluable. Also. Remember trump is all about America first and he’s also all about making deals and getting what he wants. im convinced all his hot air about NATO is about reducing Americas contribution and increasing individual European nation’s contributions. I don’t think he seriously wants to leave NATIO.. I think he’s trying to scare nations into giving more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March (edited) 7 hours ago, MPH said: I think trump realizes the value of an alliance with Europe. You have to put everything he says through the Trump filter. The intel and ‘ extra reach’ that NATO gives the United States is invaluable. Also. Remember trump is all about America first and he’s also all about making deals and getting what he wants. im convinced all his hot air about NATO is about reducing Americas contribution and increasing individual European nation’s contributions. I don’t think he seriously wants to leave NATIO.. I think he’s trying to scare nations into giving more. He's partly about America First but he's also a complete man baby which is influencing decisions he's making. His whole Ukraine position is based on him being impeached for blackmailing Ukraine for dirt on Biden. It's nothing political, it's simply personal to him. This is one of numerous axes he has to grind which will impact what he does if he gets in. Agree he doesn't want to leave NATO as if he did he'd have done it. Just think it's Trump first followed by America First and if leaving NATO is a pre-req to settle a score, he'll do it. Edited 7 March by Zear0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March Change of topic.... some stunning new photos of the Sun have been released. And no, i don't mean they are bringing back page 3 https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0hgsj09/stunning-photos-show-the-sun-like-never-before 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salisbury Fox Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 9 hours ago, Foxdiamond said: I agree about the 2% commitment. Just think even with this and plus it would not make up the loss of US involvement It wouldn’t, most European armed forces have based their capabilities upon heavy US support. For example our own air defence capability has been reduced on the basis that we would have air superiority provided predominantly by the US. It would take many years to grow these capabilities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 7 March Author Share Posted 7 March 7 hours ago, MPH said: I think trump realizes the value of an alliance with Europe. You have to put everything he says through the Trump filter. The intel and ‘ extra reach’ that NATO gives the United States is invaluable. Also. Remember trump is all about America first and he’s also all about making deals and getting what he wants. im convinced all his hot air about NATO is about reducing Americas contribution and increasing individual European nation’s contributions. I don’t think he seriously wants to leave NATIO.. I think he’s trying to scare nations into giving more. Trump is all about Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 58 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said: Trump is all about Trump. to a degree. but there are much easier jobs to take to be selfish with.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 7 March Author Share Posted 7 March 2 hours ago, MPH said: to a degree. but there are much easier jobs to take to be selfish with.. They don't keep you out of prison though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 27 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said: They don't keep you out of prison though. he probably wouldn’t be under the same level of scrutiny he’s under right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March (edited) 8 hours ago, MPH said: Change of topic.... some stunning new photos of the Sun have been released. And no, i don't mean they are bringing back page 3 https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0hgsj09/stunning-photos-show-the-sun-like-never-before If we'd been putting this sort of thing on Page 3 instead we probably wouldn't have ended up with the Tories and Brexit. Edited 7 March by urban.spaceman 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 7 March Share Posted 7 March 19 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: If we'd been putting this sort of thing on Page 3 instead we probably wouldn't have ended up with the Tories and Brexit. Brexit and the Tories are all my fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March Good speech from Biden Gives some hope that he can yet fend off the loonies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_horns Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March Will the Tories lose this seat now or be pretty safe even with May going ? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68509239 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March 3 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said: Good speech from Biden Gives some hope that he can yet fend off the loonies Just giving it a watch now. It was great wasn’t it. Properly good stuff and hopefully a turning moment in this crazy race. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 March Author Share Posted 8 March (edited) Vegans Abuse Vegan Cafe Owner With Meat On The Menu Some people would rather harm humans than animals. The only -ism I subscribe to is specism... if it's a human or an animal, I'm saving the human. Also, if they're serving meat, then it's not a vegan cafe, it's just a cafe. Edited 8 March by Trav Le Bleu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_up_north Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March For a start, he's in Macclesfield. I know the area and it is not somewhere that I can see a vegan cafe being a success story. Second, you've stopped being a vegan cafe when you start selling meat. Strikes me as an idealist who had no business sense and has been caught with his trousers down. I suspect when the lease is up it'll change hands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March Not true really, I have a non alcoholic gin bar which serves gin at a minimum of 40% proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March 8 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said: Not true really, I have a non alcoholic gin bar which serves gin at a minimum of 40% proof. Sounds like the only non-alcoholic bar worth visiting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts