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Trav Le Bleu

Also In The News - part 3

By Trav Le Bleu, in General Chat

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The Doctor

The Doctor

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Fair enough some women may get anxious around transfemales using female toilets, however I have some counter points (not interested in arguing, rather respectful debate as I may be inaccurate).

 

1) It comes back to the same point that a pervert is going to perv regardless of gender. How many people realistically dress as women, declare themselves as a transwoman just so that they can be perv? 

2) How much of the anxiety is exacerbated by the moral panic created about trans people?

 

1) basically noone, this is one of the underpinnings of the argument around self-ID, but like 25 countries and a chunk of US states have it without issue

 

2) pretty much all of it. Like there are precedents dating back to the 70s and 80s around this (like self id was a thing until Corbett v Corbett, where an aristo decided he didn't want to pay alimony to his ex wife, a trans woman, so went to court arguing she was a man so the marriage was never valid), but it was so not a controversy not that long ago that it made up part of Tory policy in 2017 under May, and even still it is just not an issue for the majority of women.

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Lionator

Lionator

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

1) basically noone, this is one of the underpinnings of the argument around self-ID, but like 25 countries and a chunk of US states have it without issue

 

2) pretty much all of it. Like there are precedents dating back to the 70s and 80s around this (like self id was a thing until Corbett v Corbett, where an aristo decided he didn't want to pay alimony to his ex wife, a trans woman, so went to court arguing she was a man so the marriage was never valid), but it was so not a controversy not that long ago that it made up part of Tory policy in 2017 under May, and even still it is just not an issue for the majority of women.

See the cynical part of me thinks/knows that some people make a hell of a lot of money out of moral panics. Look at the anti-EDI movement in the States at the moment. Millionaires raking it in from manipulating people's fears of brown people in powerful positions in institutions. 

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MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Lionator said:

See the cynical part of me thinks/knows that some people make a hell of a lot of money out of moral panics. Look at the anti-EDI movement in the States at the moment. Millionaires raking it in from manipulating people's fears of brown people in powerful positions in institutions. 


 

divide and conquer!

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The Horse's Mouth

The Horse's Mouth

Posted
Posted
On 21/03/2024 at 20:30, st albans fox said:

Reform and the tories together = 34% 

 

if they do a deal (perhaps also allow a few of them to stand in some uncertain seats with no Tory candidate ) then labour cannot be too blasé about a big majority 

 

still time to drop the ball 

 

Don’t think it’d be as black and white as that, I’d imagine a lot of that reform demographic would be similar to the one that UKIP had. Very popular in traditional labour areas, so it wouldn’t be a case of people voting Tory instead. I’d imagine a core of that base is driven by immigration, which they’ve already concluded that Sunak isn’t going to provide what they want in that regard either. plus, don’t think reform would strike a deal either, because either way the outcome is a Starmer government regardless.
 

 

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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted

I reckon Reform’s aims this time will be different to the Brexit party from last time. The Brexit party straight up wanted to ensure Brexit got through so they were prepared to “unoppose” Boris in selected areas. Reform I imagine are preparing for a battle for the soul of the British right wing so would happily see the Conservatives fall.

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ClaphamFox

ClaphamFox

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Lionator said:

Fair enough some women may get anxious around transfemales using female toilets, however I have some counter points (not interested in arguing, rather respectful debate as I may be inaccurate).

 

1) It comes back to the same point that a pervert is going to perv regardless of gender. How many people realistically dress as women, declare themselves as a transwoman just so that they can be perv? 

2) How much of the anxiety is exacerbated by the moral panic created about trans people?

 

Apologies - was offline for a while. In answer to your questions:

 

1) Predators are extraordinarily cunning and resourceful. They will exploit any loophole they can to gain access to their victims. We know this from the number of paedophiles that have embedded themselves within the scouts, the church, children's homes, junior football teams etc. I think it's naïve in the extreme to assume that predators targeting vulnerable women won't do the same if they feel the opportunity is there. For example, if your policy on access to a shelter for abused women is that men aren't allowed in unless they identify as a woman, you're essentially basing your entire safeguarding policy on trust. You're just taking somebody's word for it and hoping for the best. I suspect a lot of people might feel unease about the likely efficacy of such a policy.

 

2) I definitely wouldn't want to tell an abused woman who is anxious about potentially being alone with a naked man in a women's changing room that she's just allowed herself to get caught up in a moral panic. That would take some industrial-strength gaslighting.

 

On the bathrooms issue in particular, I can see us moving to a situation in which all venues of any size (including workplaces, educational establishments, bars, restaurants, etc) must either have three types of bathroom (male, female and gender-neutral). Smaller venues that don't have the capacity for this will likely be allowed to just offer a small number of cubicles for everybody's use. This seems like an area that where sensible solutions can be found via pragmatic policymaking backed up by government funding.


Other aspects of this issue (access to shelters and hospital wards, participation in female sports, the recording of crimes, etc) will likely prove much more difficult to resolve. 

Edited by ClaphamFox
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The Horse's Mouth

The Horse's Mouth

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I reckon Reform’s aims this time will be different to the Brexit party from last time. The Brexit party straight up wanted to ensure Brexit got through so they were prepared to “unoppose” Boris in selected areas. Reform I imagine are preparing for a battle for the soul of the British right wing so would happily see the Conservatives fall.

It’s the impression I get to, they surely can’t look at this election as anything but a great opportunity for them? I mean reform is effectively the UKIP of old, who were able to generate a good vote share but not being able to convert it into seats, you could argue immigration is a more hotter discussion amongst their demo than it even was before.

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ClaphamFox

ClaphamFox

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I reckon Reform’s aims this time will be different to the Brexit party from last time. The Brexit party straight up wanted to ensure Brexit got through so they were prepared to “unoppose” Boris in selected areas. Reform I imagine are preparing for a battle for the soul of the British right wing so would happily see the Conservatives fall.

This assessment of Brexit - and of the Tory party in general - from former party chairman Chris Patten is pretty devastating:

 

https://x.com/bmay/status/1770912314083926040?s=20

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Facecloth

Facecloth

Posted
Posted (edited)

BBC News - Princess of Wales says she is undergoing cancer treatment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68641441

 

Found during her surgery.

 

Feel like this has been forced on them to speak out after these ridiculous photos and videos. If they'd just not done anything I don't think the speculation would have been anywhere near the level it was.

Edited by Facecloth
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Izzy

Izzy

Posted
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Posted

Bless her, thought she spoke well there.

 

Hope she makes a full recovery, must be difficult with three young kids.

 

My Mum is currently a third of the way through her Chemo treatment and it's tough.

 

Fvck cancer.

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foxy boxing

foxy boxing

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

BBC News - Princess of Wales says she is undergoing cancer treatment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68641441

 

Found during her surgery.

 

Feel like this has been forced on them to speak out after these ridiculous photo images and videos. If they'd just not done anything I don't think the speculation would have been anywhere near the level it was.

The whole thing had been a massive PR disaster and they definitely need new people advising them. The fact is they want privacy when it suits them but they are public people paid for by the taxpayer. People understand it is a difficult time for them but if they'd have told the truth from the beginning they would get nothing but sympathy and not endless conspiracy theories. Hope she recovers well from the best care that anyone in the world will receive. 

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Facecloth

Facecloth

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, foxy boxing said:

The whole thing had been a massive PR disaster and they definitely need new people advising them. The fact is they want privacy when it suits them but they are public people paid for by the taxpayer. People understand it is a difficult time for them but if they'd have told the truth from the beginning they would get nothing but sympathy and not endless conspiracy theories. Hope she recovers well from the best care that anyone in the world will receive. 

I think the fact they have three young children that they've been trying to navigate through this news on a personal level is reason enough to not come out immediately with the news like they did with the King. We'd have found out eventually, but the PR team ****ed up and forced her hand.

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fox_up_north

fox_up_north

Posted
Posted

Yeah the PR team all need firing into the sun. Other than the royal weirdos, nobody was that bothered. Now she's had to reveal this.

 

Shocking. Coming up on 8 years since I lost my mate to cancer at the ripe old age of 28. 

 

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UniFox21

UniFox21

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Bless her, thought she spoke well there.

 

Hope she makes a full recovery, must be difficult with three young kids.

 

My Mum is currently a third of the way through her Chemo treatment and it's tough.

 

Fvck cancer.

Hopefully everyone will leave her alone now. Forget the fact she's a royal, as you say, she's a mum with 3 young kids, a wife, a daughter - things way more important than being a royal. 

 

Spent most of my life either impacted by cancer or working with it, it's ridiculous how much it can affect people's lives. 

 

Hoping your mum/family in general are doing well

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