urban.spaceman Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April They've decided to... Kuwait and see what happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April 5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: They've decided to... Kuwait and see what happens. I see what you did there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April 23 minutes ago, Jattdogg said: I see what you did there It's a pun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April Has Owen Jones blamed this all on Starmer yet? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April Well what a very bizarre ‘attack’ by Iran. Slow, predicted and dealt with. It’s almost as if this attack was intended to appease those in Iran who have been baying for blood since the general was killed. iranian tv has been showing old footage of explosions that didn’t even happen in Israel to show the ‘damage’ they have done with this drone attack. they are definitely hoping this is the end of the matter but noise coming out of Israel is that they are going to respond!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_favourite Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April (edited) 42 minutes ago, MPH said: Well what a very bizarre ‘attack’ by Iran. Slow, predicted and dealt with. It’s almost as if this attack was intended to appease those in Iran who have been baying for blood since the general was killed. iranian tv has been showing old footage of explosions that didn’t even happen in Israel to show the ‘damage’ they have done with this drone attack. they are definitely hoping this is the end of the matter but noise coming out of Israel is that they are going to respond!!! I really hope that the US and UK still have some influence over netanyahu. As I would have e thought that they would suggest heavy restraint and call the matter closed. But I have e a horrible feeling he's going rogue Interesting that with US and UK fighters involved in shooting down the attack, no one has moaned about it from the area. It all seems, from an untrained eye as very co-ordinated in a odd way. Edited 14 April by fox_favourite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 58 minutes ago, fox_favourite said: I really hope that the US and UK still have some influence over netanyahu. As I would have e thought that they would suggest heavy restraint and call the matter closed. But I have e a horrible feeling he's going rogue Interesting that with US and UK fighters involved in shooting down the attack, no one has moaned about it from the area. It all seems, from an untrained eye as very co-ordinated in an odd way. Nah he’s gonna go in once and for all here now. Maybe not Iran but you can defo see him doing to Hezbollah/Lebanon what he’s done to Gaza. Knows his iron dome is great too. Sickening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hejammy Posted 14 April Popular Post Share Posted 14 April I'm a bit confused. So Hamas attacks Israel and Israel is allowed to retaliate and we and the US support this. Israel attack Iran, Iran retaliate and we and the US condemn this? Isn't this just hypocritical? Genuine question and would be great to hear what people here who have extensive knowledge of the situation think? 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaphamFox Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April (edited) 41 minutes ago, hejammy said: I'm a bit confused. So Hamas attacks Israel and Israel is allowed to retaliate and we and the US support this. Israel attack Iran, Iran retaliate and we and the US condemn this? Isn't this just hypocritical? Genuine question and would be great to hear what people here who have extensive knowledge of the situation think? Yes it's hypocritical, but it's how international alliances work. Israel is our ally; Iran certainly is not. It is in our interests to support Israel in this situation so we will do so. Whether it's hypocritical or not is way down on the list of priorities of those who make these decisions. Whatever your view is on whether Iran had the right to attack Israel, there is no doubt that they launched those missiles in full knowledge that it would legitimise a direct retaliation from Israel. They're inviting an attack. It's a calculated escalation. This is a very dangerous moment - it's not an exaggeration to say that right now we're probably closer to a Third World War than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Edited 14 April by ClaphamFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_up_north Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April I think it's a mix of - strong links between Iran, Hamas and a bunch of other terrorist organisations - Iran is about as stable as jelly on a boat - people don't generally like Iran because of all the awful things they do to their own people through groups such as the morality police, which have led to uprisings within - Iran's nuclear programme and relationship with Russia In short - nobody really likes Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April (edited) 1 hour ago, hejammy said: I'm a bit confused. So Hamas attacks Israel and Israel is allowed to retaliate and we and the US support this. Israel attack Iran, Iran retaliate and we and the US condemn this? Isn't this just hypocritical? Genuine question and would be great to hear what people here who have extensive knowledge of the situation think? I wonder if there was a message in Iran’s response last night. They could have sent a couple of cruise missiles towards Israeli bases and would have known they’d be taken out . But they involved themselves in an ‘over reaction’ to what was essentially several of its top generals being assassinated in Damascus. (And as mentioned last week in this thread, there is talk that one of those was involved in oct 7 planning - The Israelis have not admitted that they carried out the attack so they can hardly put forward and justification for it.) Were the Iranians effectively making a comment on how they view Israel’s response to oct 7 in Gaza ? you also need to appreciate that Israel (and much of the west) views Hezbollah, houthis and Hamas as being mouthpieces of Iran. They would say that Iran has been attacking Israel every day for the last six months + there is already a cycle of daily retaliation ongoing by proxy (apr 1 and last night were more direct examples) my main point this morning is that Israel has for decades been the military strongman in the region (principly due to it being the only nuclear power but not exclusively). no state would directly challenge it - instead doing so as Iran has done via proxies. To allow this level of attack from Iran to go unanswered would not fit with the image of netenyahu’s govt. it will be interesting to see just how they respond. is this all part of a planned dance between two govts who need the war to continue for their own ends? Whatever the response from Israel, that won’t tell us much because there are explanations available for all levels of reaction. Edited 14 April by st albans fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejammy Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 57 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: Yes it's hypocritical, but it's how international alliances work. Israel is our ally; Iran certainly is not. It is in our interests to support Israel in this situation so we will do so. Whether it's hypocritical or not is way down on the list of priorities of those who make these decisions. Whatever your view is on whether Iran had the right to attack Israel, there is no doubt that they launched those missiles in full knowledge that it would legitimise a direct retaliation from Israel. They're inviting an attack. It's a calculated escalation. This is a very dangerous moment - it's not an exaggeration to say that right now we're probably closer to a Third World War than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. This I find very interesting. What makes Israel our alley? What does Israel actually do for the UK? Who decides on who is an ally and who is not and under what criteria? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaphamFox Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April (edited) 18 minutes ago, hejammy said: This I find very interesting. What makes Israel our alley? What does Israel actually do for the UK? Who decides on who is an ally and who is not and under what criteria? Israel is a functioning democracy (albeit an imperfect one) surrounded by undemocratic theocracies of varying levels of stability. Democracies tend to be allies - wars between democratic countries are very rare. Iran is a deeply repressive regime that allies itself with Russia. Allying ourselves with other democratic countries may mean sometimes tolerating behaviour from some of those countries that many reasonable people may find objectionable. But realpolitik dictates that pragmatic considerations usually override ethical ones. Edited 14 April by ClaphamFox 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejammy Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 12 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: Israel is a functioning democracy (albeit an imperfect one) surrounded by undemocratic theocracies of varying levels of stability. Democracies tend to be allies - wars between democratic countries are very rare. Iran is a deeply repressive regime that allies itself with Russia. Allying ourselves with other democratic countries may mean sometimes tolerating behaviour from some of those countries that many reasonable people may find objectionable. But realpolitik dictates that pragmatic considerations usually override ethical ones. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/30/israel-hasnt-been-a-democracy-for-a-long-time-now-israelis-need-to-face-this-fact 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said: Yes it's hypocritical, but it's how international alliances work. Israel is our ally; Iran certainly is not. It is in our interests to support Israel in this situation so we will do so. Whether it's hypocritical or not is way down on the list of priorities of those who make these decisions. Whatever your view is on whether Iran had the right to attack Israel, there is no doubt that they launched those missiles in full knowledge that it would legitimise a direct retaliation from Israel. They're inviting an attack. It's a calculated escalation. This is a very dangerous moment - it's not an exaggeration to say that right now we're probably closer to a Third World War than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Based on what? We’ve seen the proxy wars all the time since 1945. There is no appetite to take it any further, the US doesn’t want it, Russia genuinely can’t. Iran knows they’d get battered, China obviously wouldn’t take part etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dunge Posted 14 April Popular Post Share Posted 14 April 1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said: Yes it's hypocritical, but it's how international alliances work. Israel is our ally; Iran certainly is not. It is in our interests to support Israel in this situation so we will do so. Whether it's hypocritical or not is way down on the list of priorities of those who make these decisions. Whatever your view is on whether Iran had the right to attack Israel, there is no doubt that they launched those missiles in full knowledge that it would legitimise a direct retaliation from Israel. They're inviting an attack. It's a calculated escalation. This is a very dangerous moment - it's not an exaggeration to say that right now we're probably closer to a Third World War than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. I think there is doubt. My reading of it is different to yours here in that I think Iran tried to give the strongest response they could that would still be contained. Whether they’ve miscalculated is another matter but I’m not buying the “they’re trying to incite a war” line. If they wanted a war they could just have one. Why tiptoe around it? To me it smacks more of trying to send a message and satisfy the hawks internally while still trying to not let the situation get out of control. Hence why they sent a load of things they knew would be shot down, clearly gave days’ of notice and said “we now consider this matter closed”. The danger is getting a war by accident because of two (or more) sides who fear that temperance will be perceived as weakness. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaphamFox Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 10 minutes ago, Dunge said: I think there is doubt. My reading of it is different to yours here in that I think Iran tried to give the strongest response they could that would still be contained. Whether they’ve miscalculated is another matter but I’m not buying the “they’re trying to incite a war” line. If they wanted a war they could just have one. Why tiptoe around it? To me it smacks more of trying to send a message and satisfy the hawks internally while still trying to not let the situation get out of control. Hence why they sent a load of things they knew would be shot down, clearly gave days’ of notice and said “we now consider this matter closed”. The danger is getting a war by accident because of two (or more) sides who fear that temperance will be perceived as weakness. Well if they genuinely thought that sending those missiles into Israel (even though they knew they would be shot down) would ‘close’ the matter, then I suspect that will turn out to be one hell of a miscalculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 45 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: Well if they genuinely thought that sending those missiles into Israel (even though they knew they would be shot down) would ‘close’ the matter, then I suspect that will turn out to be one hell of a miscalculation. Problem is there’s a genuine danger that Israel - or rather Netanyahu - does want a war but needs to find away to bring America along with it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 13 minutes ago, Dunge said: Problem is there’s a genuine danger that Israel - or rather Netanyahu - does want a war but needs to find away to bring America along with it. The theory is that’s why he bombed the Iranian embassy. He wanted a mad iranian reaction, but unfortunately for him, there’s a democrat president who won’t touch Iran with a barge pole. If he can outlast Biden until January 2025 then things may get hairy but I presume Netanyahu will be in prison by then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickyblueeyes Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April What a horrendous world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paninistickers Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 3 hours ago, ClaphamFox said: it's not an exaggeration to say that right now we're probably closer to a Third World War Except Iran clearly don't want a war - as illustrated by this laughable 'attack'. The US clearly don't want escalation and have said so. Russia shat the bed when that rocket landed in Poland and, guess what, the Yanks investigation took all of 15 mins to declare the missile as rogue Ukrainian and de-escalate the situation. These things are largely being done for domestic.politics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 12 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: They've decided to... Kuwait and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April (edited) 1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said: What a horrendous world we live in. Remember the post London 2012 Olympics high? Sadly was just a short lived thing Since 2016 and the Brexit referendum, the world has just been spiralling ever more horrendously out of control (not claiming cause and effect more that the Brexit referendum was the first really strong sign of how politics is destabilising) Edited 14 April by Sampson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post reporterpenguin Posted 14 April Popular Post Share Posted 14 April 20 minutes ago, Sampson said: Remember the post London 2012 Olympics high? Sadly was just a short lived thing Since 2016 and the Brexit referendum, the world has just been spiralling ever more horrendously out of control (not claiming cause and effect more that the Brexit referendum was the first really strong sign of how politics is destabilising) I still think our title win knocked the universe of balance and since then we’ve been living in a universe where everything that can go wrong does. Totally worth it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 14 April Share Posted 14 April 1 hour ago, MPH said: Worse than a war crime isn't it ? What did I do when I saw @urban.spaceman entering this thread? I ran. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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