Also In The News - part 3

[foxy boxing]

29 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

They’ve explicitly said they would repeat October 7th attacks until Israel is destroyed, and that they are “a nation of martyrs” who are “proud to sacrifice martyrs“:

 

Senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad told Lebanese TV that his organisation was determined to repeat the massacre of 7 October, when the men of Hamas murdered some 1,400 Israelis, most of them civilians, torturing and maiming their victims in ways too cruel to recount. Hamad promised that 7 October was “just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth”. He was asked if Hamas was bent on Israel’s annihilation. “Yes, of course,” he replied.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/03/war-israel-hamas-conflict-peace-extremists

 

any reasonable person will know that there is absolutely no chance of Hamas or its allies destroying Israel no matter how many of its citizens you kill, and that more palestinians die as a result of Israeli reprisals. Israel is vastly superior with the backing of the west. the only way is negotiations but these people dont want peace or compromise. theyve been fighting since Israels creation and where exactly has it gotten them. 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

Is there any sign that Hamas even want a ceasefire?  A ceasefire has to be on both sides, and would surely have to involve the return of non-combatants (ie. hostages and human shields).

My assumption atm is that Israel would agree to ‘humanitarian pauses’ if there was a plausible commitment that a large number of the hostages were to be freed - and then they would need to begin to be freed when the first pause occurred. (And not in two’s) 

 

Also, they will not agree to a ceasefire whilst they have Gaza city surrounded and they believe they can slowly remove those Hamas fighters underground there.  Afaik, there is no underground link between tunnels below Gaza city and south of the wadi.  No idea what they propose to do about the network of tunnels south of the wadi - would they agree to hamas fighters there  having free passage to Iran so they can then claim to have rid Gaza of hamas ??? (We know that’s not a realistic outcome but BN has backed himself into a corner by stating that this is the war aim). 

 

and Hamas simply won’t release all of the hostages because they are all that is stopping Israel destroying the tunnel network (via oxygen removal? ) and hamas who are living and operating from within them. 

 

The time is coming where some fuel will have to be allowed into the strip - reserves are now beginning to run v low. Isreal’s current position is that they are sure that they can get some hostages released in exchange for that fuel.  I’m not so sure about that - I don’t think Hamas care about those above ground and if they have sufficient supply to keep their tunnels aerated then they’ll play a game of poker over the fuel. 
 

in answer to your question- yes I think a ceasefire works well for Hamas. They can regroup in the south and try to work out how to extract themselves from tunnels in the north. as I said above, it doesn’t work for Israel now they have Gaza city within the grasp of their army and probably many thousands of Hamas fighters there.  

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

They literally had 15 on Israel last year vs 13 for the rest of the world in total.  You cannot tell me over 50% of the worst things in the world last year involved Israel.  Utter nonsense.

 

I think it is great he resigned, he has demonstrated the absence of rational thought on this issue and so Kier can do better.

Where are you getting those stats from, it would be interesting to read?

[David Hankey]

The headline of the day surely has to be that Nestle are ditching the 'Caramac' bar!!

 

After over 60 years of sales the decision has been made because of "declining sales".

[Bellend Sebastian]

4 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

The headline of the day surely has to be that Nestle are ditching the 'Caramac' bar!!

 

After over 60 years of sales the decision has been made because of "declining sales".

When my son was very small a Caramac as a treat for the way back was about the only way I could get him to come shopping with me, so I've fond memories of them for that reason.

 

I really like them but Cadburys launching Caramilk has done them hasn't it because it's pretty much identical?

Edited 8 November 2023 by Bellend Sebastian

[Mickyblueeyes]

Hamas cannot rule Gaza. They themselves know that. They launched the 7th October attack knowing that. It’s victory or death - that’s their mentality. 
 

The thing the west and Israel can’t seem to see is that in about 10 years, there will be another group as committed to their destruction (if not more so). And that will continue until this approach changes. Most of these members of Hamas are orphaned kids of previous conflicts. 
 

The land grabs, second class citizen status, restrictions and murder will only generate such groups. Going forward, for the benefit of BOTH sides, the UK and US add very little and just cannot be key players. Iran need to be out of the equation with their warmongering from an ivory tower too. There needs to be genuine diplomacy for those who remain. Settlers need to be arrested and removed as much as Hamas need to be destroyed. The thing is, I don’t even know how to start with the creation of two states. What I do know, Israel remaining in both Gaza and West Bank (after the war) will ignite further tensions for years to come. The sooner they are out, the better for both.

 

I remind you, on BOTH sides, the brutality is crazy. Rape is a tool used by BOTH Hamas and the IDF. Just let that sit. That’s how ****ed up the relationship is. That rape and mutilation is seen as a norm. Both sides have given up on proper combat rules for decades now. How do you create co-existence from there. 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, foxy boxing said:

any reasonable person will know that there is absolutely no chance of Hamas or its allies destroying Israel no matter how many of its citizens you kill, and that more palestinians die as a result of Israeli reprisals. Israel is vastly superior with the backing of the west. the only way is negotiations but these people dont want peace or compromise. theyve been fighting since Israels creation and where exactly has it gotten them. 

Comes back to the original point that both Hamas and IDF/Israeli government are both horrible fascists who need replacing/eradicating. 

[st albans fox]

27 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Hamas cannot rule Gaza. They themselves know that. They launched the 7th October attack knowing that. It’s victory or death - that’s their mentality. 
 

The thing the west and Israel can’t seem to see is that in about 10 years, there will be another group as committed to their destruction (if not more so). And that will continue until this approach changes. Most of these members of Hamas are orphaned kids of previous conflicts. 
 

The land grabs, second class citizen status, restrictions and murder will only generate such groups. Going forward, for the benefit of BOTH sides, the UK and US add very little and just cannot be key players. Iran need to be out of the equation with their warmongering from an ivory tower too. There needs to be genuine diplomacy for those who remain. Settlers need to be arrested and removed as much as Hamas need to be destroyed. The thing is, I don’t even know how to start with the creation of two states. What I do know, Israel remaining in both Gaza and West Bank (after the war) will ignite further tensions for years to come. The sooner they are out, the better for both.

 

I remind you, on BOTH sides, the brutality is crazy. Rape is a tool used by BOTH Hamas and the IDF. Just let that sit. That’s how ****ed up the relationship is. That rape and mutilation is seen as a norm. Both sides have given up on proper combat rules for decades now. How do you create co-existence from there. 

Sadly if you go onto Google, you will find that instances of rape by soldiers around the world is not a rarity.  (Including British and US ). 

 

the glass half full assessment of the future is that if the Palestinians can accept a two state solution (without the right of return of refugees into Israel ) then a non Likud Israeli govt post the next GE can lead to something positive.  However, that probably also relies on the Americans not electing trump next autumn. 
 

that’s probably a naive view on a few levels.  Israel’s previous offers of a peace arrangement over the decades has usually met with a refusal from the PLA because they never went far enough.  you need to start somewhere though. 

 

 

[Tommy Fresh]

Whenever I see Tommy Robinson reappear I like to rewatch this

 

[Free Falling Foxes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67355475

[Jon the Hat]

14 hours ago, Daggers said:

That will come as news to everyone who has ever been suspended pending an investigation or outcome of police action. 
 

I spent 6 months suspended after a kid accused me of assault. It was great because I got to spend every morning of the 2002 World Cup in the village pub getting pissed. 
 

Finally, after half a year on holiday, I was interviewed by the police where I discovered the actual allegation. He’d accused me of dragging him down a corridor by his hair. The dumb ****er has a No.1 haircut. So stupid him and his fat whore mother couldn’t even invent a half believable lie. 
 

Sadly, the outcome was terrible - I had to go back to work for a week before school holidays. 

Fair point.  Joys of teaching.  I remember a young teacher who was always being wound up by a complete dickhead in our class.  Eventually he snapped and grabbed the kid by the throat to nobody's surprise.  We were all interviewed.  No one say anything of the sort.

[Jon the Hat]

12 hours ago, foxy boxing said:

any reasonable person will know that there is absolutely no chance of Hamas or its allies destroying Israel no matter how many of its citizens you kill, and that more palestinians die as a result of Israeli reprisals. Israel is vastly superior with the backing of the west. the only way is negotiations but these people dont want peace or compromise. theyve been fighting since Israels creation and where exactly has it gotten them. 

Firstly, its great you can sit thousands of miles away and tell the most persecuted people in history that they don't need to worry about their homeland, which is surrounded by countries who want them all dead.  Secondly that they should not respond to the worst terrorist attack the world has ever seen in terms of proportion of population attacked, context and atrocity.  Fortunately, it seems Hamas allies are hanging them out to dry.  Iran and Hezbollah both backed off this week, do hopes that this doesn't escalate into a regional conflict improve a little.  Make no mistake though, Isreal is at risk, especially when the world's apologists give Hamas a free pass to do seemingly anything withou reprisals.  I come back to my earlier point that Israel have no good options.  They know well the opprobrium that comes there way, they intractability of Hamas and any other Palestinian leadership to any offers of peace over decades, the daily rocket and other attacks on their people which no one gives a shit about, and the horrors of air and ground attacks on both sides.  They also know they cannot leave Hamas in control of Gaza, and there is no other way of getting them out.  We can only hope this is over quickly, and the new leadership in the coming years on both sides give each other some better options.

[urban.spaceman]

Amazing.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67361888

[Tuna]

19 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Amazing.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67361888

[Lionator]

I really hope the march on Saturday goes ahead peacefully and the organisers and police can stick two fingers up to the thug who is Home Secretary, it’s genuinely dangerous the things she is saying. 

[Nalis]

5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Amazing.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67361888

Fvckin hell, think thats 1-1 after the M&S ad debacle, of which I'm still awaiting the M&S apology to Hungarians and Italians for the burning of red, white and green.

[Mike Oxlong]

29 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I really hope the march on Saturday goes ahead peacefully and the organisers and police can stick two fingers up to the thug who is Home Secretary, it’s genuinely dangerous the things she is saying. 

The stupid twunt is to thick to realise that expressing support for the Palestinian people doesn’t necessarily make you anti-Israeli 

[StanSP]

6 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Amazing.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67361888

This is my favourite quote from it:

 

'Although this is potentially funny (the AJA committee has tossed around some non-PC jokes) it's really not a good look' 

 

Hypocrisy much?! 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

I really hope the march on Saturday goes ahead peacefully and the organisers and police can stick two fingers up to the thug who is Home Secretary, it’s genuinely dangerous the things she is saying. 

It won’t. There’ll be counter demos. There’ll be right wing grifting gobshites. The police will be jittery. It’s going to be a mess.

[fox_up_north]

I've seen it said she's deliberately being provocative to appeal to a base, ahead of a leadership bid

[Finnegan]

I really, really hope the British public turn en masse against the Tories in a significant landslide and they step back from the edge. 

 

This American style culture war bullshit cannot be allowed to dictate our politics for the foreseeable future. Political discourse in the USA doesn't exist anymore, it's just white trash and Christian fundamentalists screaming "woke" at everyone while moustache twirling billionaires sit laughing counting their money unnoticed. 

 

I really, really hope we don't get dragged fully in to that rubbish. It's bad enough now as it is. But Suella's going full American. You never go full American. 

 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

The stupid twunt is to thick to realise that expressing support for the Palestinian people doesn’t necessarily make you anti-Israeli 

There is nothing wrong with being ‘anti Israel’ - there are plenty of countries around the world that people could demonstrate against. But you’ve got to be anti Israel for valid personal reasons (which primarily aren’t religion based) .  Of course being so motivated to be on an ‘anti any country’ march is going to exclude a lot of people.  To go on a march in all weathers every Saturday shows much commitment.  This is why many Jewish people here currently feel so distressed. They see 150k marchers every weekend and they assume that there must be at least 15/20k who would happily spit at them. 

And remember that Jewish people carry a lot of baggage from the past 2000 years. there aren’t many countries that they’ve not been forcibly evicted from or suffered mass murderous attacks in over that period.  (And that includes this country btw.) 

 

I’d like to think that the vast majority of marchers are there to plead for a ceasefire and a political solution to the issues rather than for any hateful reasons. 

[fox_up_north]

It should be said, regarding the USA, that the public seem to have pulled back from that stuff. Ohio just put abortion rights in law and some drug treatment programs. They've also booted out some of the mental republicans.

 

Don't underestimate the fact that, for the first time ever, people aren't considerably turning more right wing as they get older. Millennials aren't voting for them.

[Dunge]

It’s crazy to say it, but we have a Home Secretary who is literally trying to incite riots on our streets so that she can present herself as the saviour.

[urban.spaceman]

13 minutes ago, Dunge said:

It’s crazy to say it, but we have a Home Secretary who is literally trying to incite riots on our streets so that she can present herself as the saviour.

The problem is that *some* people are thick enough to play directly into her hands. And I'm fully expecting that someone will.