Also In The News - part 3

[Finnegan]

56 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

for the first time ever, people aren't considerably turning more right wing as they get older

 

Tbf, whilst it's true that Millennials and Gen Z are consistently more progressive and anti capitalist than previous generations and it will start to significantly impact voting, it's always been a bit of a myth that a significant number of people become conservative as they age. 

 

Less idealistic and more pragmatic maybe but I remember reading a study fairly recently that was making the point that the majority of people don't drastically change their voting habits in their lifetime. 

[Daggers]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Tbf, whilst it's true that Millennials and Gen Z are consistently more progressive and anti capitalist than previous generations and it will start to significantly impact voting, it's always been a bit of a myth that a significant number of people become conservative as they age. 

 

Less idealistic and more pragmatic maybe but I remember reading a study fairly recently that was making the point that the majority of people don't drastically change their voting habits in their lifetime. 

Mr Mellon disagrees

 

https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/how-were-almost-all-swingers-now/

 

 

[Finnegan]

19 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Mr Mellon disagrees

 

https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/how-were-almost-all-swingers-now/

 

 

 

I dont think the two things are mutually exclusive though. It just means the majority of people are apathetic about politics in general and don't have extremely strong left or right convictions and just float around the middle being non committal voting for the "opposition" when sentiment against the government gets strong enough. 

 

We kinda know that about the British public anyway don't we. 

 

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

It should be said, regarding the USA, that the public seem to have pulled back from that stuff. Ohio just put abortion rights in law and some drug treatment programs. They've also booted out some of the mental republicans.

 

Don't underestimate the fact that, for the first time ever, people aren't considerably turning more right wing as they get older. Millennials aren't voting for them.

People aren’t turning conservative as they get older as the majority have nothing to conserve. House = can’t afford it, car = on finance, job = not safe. 

[StanSP]

2 hours ago, Dunge said:

It’s crazy to say it, but we have a Home Secretary who is literally trying to incite riots on our streets so that she can present herself as the saviour.

It's clear gaslighting isn't it? 

 

Even if there's minimal arrests or police action as a result of the protests, newspapers will jump on it like a fly on shit. 

 

It's not even gaslighting protestors, it's doing it to the Police too. 

 

No sane home sec acts like this. At a time where you'd want the country to come together, she is as divisive as they come. Sunak doesn't have the balls to sack her either. 

[dsr-burnley]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I’d like to think that the vast majority of marchers are there to plead for a ceasefire and a political solution to the issues rather than for any hateful reasons. 

I'd like to think so too, but I can't.

 

How many of the marchers are carrying pictures of the hostages held in Gaza?  How many are lighting a candle for the dead at the pop festival?  How many are calling for the expulsion of Hamas from government?  

 

Any of them shouting "Palestine shall be free, from the river to the sea" are shouting for the elimination of the state of Israel and are clearly not there for peace.  They are there for Palestinian victory.

 

If they were to organise and combined all-faiths march to get rid of Hamas, it would look a lot more like a march for a political solution.

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

People aren’t turning conservative as they get older as the majority have nothing to conserve. House = can’t afford it, car = on finance, job = not safe. 

Yeh but boats and poppies and forrins and shit. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

4 hours ago, Daggers said:

Mr Mellon disagrees

 

https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/how-were-almost-all-swingers-now/

 

 

Corbyn has gotten more right wing as he's aged.

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

It's clear gaslighting isn't it? 

 

Even if there's minimal arrests or police action as a result of the protests, newspapers will jump on it like a fly on shit. 

 

It's not even gaslighting protestors, it's doing it to the Police too. 

 

No sane home sec acts like this. At a time where you'd want the country to come together, she is as divisive as they come. Sunak doesn't have the balls to sack her either. 

I guess up until now he’s considered it best to have her inside the tent peeing out than the other way around 

 

she’s a threat to his leadership and whilst there is a chance she could be manipulated into leadership pre GE, he’ll likely try and keep her in cabinet.  But at some point he will surely have to get rid because the longer she stays in position the weaker sunak appears. 

[Super_horns]

She seems to be in trouble now but probably won’t care .

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67368785

[Dunge]

If she’s aiming to become Conservative leader - or even PM, God forbid - then I think she’s making too many enemies, both within the party and in the general populace. She shouldn’t be able to win an election with just a bunch of core fanatics.

 

Frankly, I think she’s behaving the way she is not out of some great strategic masterplan but because this is her nature.

[StanSP]

16 minutes ago, Dunge said:

If she’s aiming to become Conservative leader - or even PM, God forbid - then I think she’s making too many enemies, both within the party and in the general populace. She shouldn’t be able to win an election with just a bunch of core fanatics.

 

Frankly, I think she’s behaving the way she is not out of some great strategic masterplan but because this is her nature.

Agreed. What may have worked 6 or 7 years ago certainly doesn't wash with the public now any more. 

[Lionator]

36 minutes ago, Dunge said:

If she’s aiming to become Conservative leader - or even PM, God forbid - then I think she’s making too many enemies, both within the party and in the general populace. She shouldn’t be able to win an election with just a bunch of core fanatics.

 

Frankly, I think she’s behaving the way she is not out of some great strategic masterplan but because this is her nature.

Agreed, one of her main problems as well is that her whole facade is that everything is corrupt and terrible and that she is somehow going to save us all. The problem is she's put about 80% of the population in that corrupt and terrible bracket, and offers absolutely nothing credible as to how she'd save us. She's not even a good liar. A horrible, ugly person inside and out who needs to be far away from politics. 

[StanSP]

 

 

 

 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

 

If the last decade has taught us anything about politics then it’s that facts and being truthful are pretty irrelevant when it comes to the electorate …..

[CosbehFox]

According to the Guardian then, Israeli PM has twice rejected a five day ceasefire in exchange for hostages. 
 

 

[CosbehFox]

Suella is after nothing more than fame. She fancies part of the Trump / Bannon gravy train. She will end up not far off Katie Hopkins by the end. 
 

If I had one point to make to her, I’d ask what it would be like if a 12 yr old Suella was living now and if her parents moved to the UK now if they’d feel welcomed. Blows my mind that her mum stood as a Tory candidate in 2001.

[dsr-burnley]

25 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

According to the Guardian then, Israeli PM has twice rejected a five day ceasefire in exchange for hostages. 
 

 

How many hostages?

[Jon the Hat]

47 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

According to the Guardian then, Israeli PM has twice rejected a five day ceasefire in exchange for hostages. 

They aren't fighting to get the hostages, they have already accepted they are going to die I think.  They are fighting to rid themselves of Hamas.  No point stopping now.

[Mickyblueeyes]

23 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

They aren't fighting to get the hostages, they have already accepted they are going to die I think.  They are fighting to rid themselves of Hamas.  No point stopping now.

Wait, what ? Have they told the families of the hostages that ? 

[Dunge]

19 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Wait, what ? Have they told the families of the hostages that ? 

I doubt it, but it’s pretty evident that they only intend to rescue any hostages themselves - if at all possible - rather than make deals for them. The only way they’ve suggested considering a deal is if all hostages are returned, ie. they won’t allow Hamas time to reorganise and let them keep hostages, even if they get some others back. Otherwise it would suggest that Hamas know how to grab Israel by the balls and they’d just take more in the future.

[LiberalFox]

Hasn't Netanyahu refused to meet with families of hostages or attend any of the funerals for the people who were killed? Doesn't seem like a man particularly bothered about his own people. 

 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Hostages almost certainly all dead already. What's the point keeping them alive, having to feed and water them, when it's clear Israel has no intention of negotiating. It's highly likely that the Israeli bombardment has killed a good percentage of them

 

Whatever moral high ground (as much as there's ANY moral high ground in killing people) that Israel had has been eroded long ago.

[Jon the Hat]

24 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

Hasn't Netanyahu refused to meet with families of hostages or attend any of the funerals for the people who were killed? Doesn't seem like a man particularly bothered about his own people. 

 

 

He cares a **** load more than Hamas leadership that is for sure.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, LiberalFox said:

Hasn't Netanyahu refused to meet with families of hostages or attend any of the funerals for the people who were killed? Doesn't seem like a man particularly bothered about his own people. 

He met them on the evening that Israel went into Gaza on the ground 

it was covered extensively on the news that night 

 

he isn’t popular in Israel - even less so than when all this began 

his attendance at any funerals would not be clever 

 

but the country is at war and in those circumstances will rally around the leadership - until it’s over when he will be political toast 

regarding the hostages - there was a story a few weeks back on a Friday where Hamas declared that they wanted to release two old women on humanitarian grounds but Israel had refused to accept them.  the two women were released on the Monday. I can say for certain that if hostages were offered for release without any preconditions that it was felt would heavily compromise the war aims then it would be done. 
 

israel has a history of exchanging vast numbers of Palestinian prisoners for very few hostages.  Infact some of those considered responsible for planning oct 7 were among 1200 exchanged for just one soldier a decade ago.  The idea that Israel has ‘written off’ the hostages is fanciful.  Hostages go deep into the Israeli psyche. 

 

we should take any stories about hostage releases with a large dose of salt. there is much going on in the background that we won’t know about in detail.  Hamas simply won’t release all the hostages because then they are exposed completely below ground (yeah - sounds odd ). I would expect that at some point quite soon we will see the dozens on non Israeli hostages released.  The additional complication is that Hamas is not holding all of them.