Popular Post Finnegan Posted 22 July Popular Post Share Posted 22 July 21 minutes ago, FoxyPV said: Even black activists have said that it'll need to be a white man to entice undecideds. Hopefully the focus will now turn to how old and inept trump is, but that doesn't matter to his base What a lot of people still don't get, unfortunately including the Democrats, is that a lot of Trump's base don't give a shit about Trump specifically. There's a list of reasons as long as your arm that nobody should vote for him but they don't really care. They just want to vote for someone they see as anti-establishment, anti-politics, it's the same sort of vibe Boris and Farage try to cultivate here with their man-in-the-pub, one of you, common sense shtick. It doesn't matter that they're oxbridge educated lords of the manor or that Trump is an East Coast elite millionaire with a gold plated bathroom, their supporters just like the idea, lie or not. Trump pulling faces mocking disabled people, going on about grabbing pussies and just yelling over everyone in a debate isn't presidential in the slightest and that's basically all he's gotta do to please those voters. Only way he could ever lose them would be to actually start talking like a politician. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 1 hour ago, Finnegan said: What a lot of people still don't get, unfortunately including the Democrats, is that a lot of Trump's base don't give a shit about Trump specifically. There's a list of reasons as long as your arm that nobody should vote for him but they don't really care. They just want to vote for someone they see as anti-establishment, anti-politics, it's the same sort of vibe Boris and Farage try to cultivate here with their man-in-the-pub, one of you, common sense shtick. It doesn't matter that they're oxbridge educated lords of the manor or that Trump is an East Coast elite millionaire with a gold plated bathroom, their supporters just like the idea, lie or not. Trump pulling faces mocking disabled people, going on about grabbing pussies and just yelling over everyone in a debate isn't presidential in the slightest and that's basically all he's gotta do to please those voters. Only way he could ever lose them would be to actually start talking like a politician. Those people won’t decide the election though - it’s the middle ground in the swing states 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 16 minutes ago, Daggers said: Wonder who Elon "Free Speech" Musk is suing this week for someone saying something he doesn't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 1 hour ago, Zear0 said: Wonder who Elon "Free Speech" Musk is suing this week for someone saying something he doesn't like? Probably FoxesTalk for deleting all of his posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 7 hours ago, FoxyPV said: Even black activists have said that it'll need to be a white man to entice undecideds. Hopefully the focus will now turn to how old and inept trump is, but that doesn't matter to his base I can’t see them going down that route considering they were trying to convince the electorate that some fella with obvious dementia was young enough and capable for the job. I think Newsom could win it, very statesmen like his California record is iffy to say the least, but he’d probably perform the best on the middle ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July Billions to recover. Plenty of Tory MPs and their mates to be jailed too 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlaneyLCFC Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July On 21/07/2024 at 18:50, DJ Barry Hammond said: Ladies & Gentleman… they got him! Most popular president in US history with 81 million votes pushed out the door by his own party!! Millions of them turning in their graves at the news......literally!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 6 minutes ago, SlaneyLCFC said: Most popular president in US history with 81 million votes ... retires from 50+ years of public service due to age and ill health!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 8 hours ago, Finnegan said: What a lot of people still don't get, unfortunately including the Democrats, is that a lot of Trump's base don't give a shit about Trump specifically. There's a list of reasons as long as your arm that nobody should vote for him but they don't really care. They just want to vote for someone they see as anti-establishment, anti-politics, it's the same sort of vibe Boris and Farage try to cultivate here with their man-in-the-pub, one of you, common sense shtick. It doesn't matter that they're oxbridge educated lords of the manor or that Trump is an East Coast elite millionaire with a gold plated bathroom, their supporters just like the idea, lie or not. Trump pulling faces mocking disabled people, going on about grabbing pussies and just yelling over everyone in a debate isn't presidential in the slightest and that's basically all he's gotta do to please those voters. Only way he could ever lose them would be to actually start talking like a politician. Apathy & antipathy to politics in the UK/US has been a real struggle to deal with for at least the last 10 years. Nobody took UKIP seriously up to 2015. Nobody challenged Farage or his aims or beliefs. Even when they got just 1 MP (Clacton of all places) with 4 million votes after 2015, they were mocked and derided. I knew Brexit was going to happen as soon as that referendum was announced, same as I knew Trump would win. They were a protest vote. And look at what a disaster they've been. And look at our election this month - one of the lowest turnouts in history. How do we deal with people who would use their vote for the most destructive, idiotic choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 22 July Share Posted 22 July 41 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: How do we deal with people who would use their vote for the most destructive, idiotic choice? My solution involves a combination of sarcasm, narcotics and baseball bats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: . And look at our election this month - one of the lowest turnouts in history. How do we deal with people who would use their vote for the most destructive, idiotic choice? I love how you blame that on the people and not the choices, almost as if the electorate are tired to show up to vote for the same two parties has things inevitably get worse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July in other news, Dianne Abbott says she won't serve as Starmers chancellor. like dude, she wasn't ever going to ask you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Col city fan Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 16 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said: I love how you blame that on the people and not the choices, almost as if the electorate are tired to show up to vote for the same two parties has things inevitably get worse That’s exactly why people aren’t showing up to vote? 🤷♂️ Whether ‘things get inevitably worse’, under Labour, we’ll have to hope they don’t. I think it’s clear that the Tories called the election too soon. Economically, they’d started to turn things around. But it’s also clear that public services have been decimated to an alarming extent under their watch. Labour now have the best opportunity for a very very long time, to use their mandate wisely and to improve the lot of the British people. If they don’t, I’ve no doubt that apathy will turn to anger and the minority parties will gain a bigger share of the vote next time. As for Trump, the Democrats have just done exactly the right thing by getting rid of Biden. Now they’ve given themselves a chance again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 7 minutes ago, Col city fan said: That’s exactly why people aren’t showing up to vote? 🤷♂️ it's also exactly why the labour leader who achieved the highest vote share and total votes of any in the last two decades was Corbyn 2017. like him or not, like his policy platform or not, only someone determined not to give him any credit at all would deny he was a divergence from the John Jackson vs Jack Johnson model of politics and enthused people who generally couldn't see the point in voting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Billions to recover. Plenty of Tory MPs and their mates to be jailed too Corruption is hard to prove. As long as the commission/er doesn’t spiral out of control and spend way more than it can ever hope to recover then it is worth bringing the worst examples to justice. But I think only the worst examples have a hope of getting monies back or putting people behind bars - and those are going to be expensive to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_up_north Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July Where's Michelle Mone, these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Finnegan Posted 23 July Popular Post Share Posted 23 July 7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: How do we deal with people who would use their vote for the most destructive, idiotic choice? 6 hours ago, Daggers said: My solution involves a combination of sarcasm, narcotics and baseball bats. This is a massive easier said than done but you deal with the root causes. We're living in a period of immense wealth disparity and inequality where even the middle classes are struggling. Throughout a large period of economic turbulence for the average working populace, the wealthiest people in the world have just gotten phenomenally wealthier. There's an enormous amount of stress, anxiety, hopelessness and pessimism and eventually that does breed apathy and cynicism. People will end up voting for individuals and parties that don't seem to represent the status quo because they're desperate for change. A lot of western, capitalist societies have attacked, underfunded and over charged for their education systems leaving a voting base increasingly lacking in knowledge and critical thinking. At the same time our news media and "new" phenomenon social media are owned and used more than ever by billionaire bad actors using them to push messages convenient for themselves. What happens then is populism. It's not a new idea. We've obviously, famously, seen it before but the conditions are perfect now to mass produce it and bombard people with it all day. Those same people that are struggling to afford homes and families that they've been told all their lives they just have to work hard for are extremely easily seduced by the message and who can blame them? Someone is acknowledging there is a problem and, better yet, they're saying they can fix it and telling them who is to blame. And why would it be lies, it's in the news and it's what I want to hear? So fix the global economy, stop capitalism running out of control and start truly and honestly informing the electorate, easy enough huh? But the last problem is closer to home and we're all responsible, both on a personal level and at a political party level and it's exactly what Daggers has just done (and I've done countless times.) Gordon Brown calling Gillian Duffy a bigot was a great early example because it was really a precursor of something in this country. Increasingly over the last fifteen, twenty odd years, the traditional parties of the white working class have lost them by either looking down at them or looking through them. Legitimate concerns about immigration in the context of housing and employment have been handwaved off as racism and bigotry leaving the door absolutely wide open for the Mails and the Suns of this world to help steal millions of votes. We have to stop hearing people's fears and anxieties - of which they should have plenty - and just dismissing them as ignorant without acknowledging that there's something there. If all we do is call people idiots or stupid or bigots or whatever else in response to, ultimately, their desire for a better life then we're never going to win those people back. And we need them. Labour, the Democrats, these parties have to start going toe to toe with populism and addressing the concerns of their historic base. The Dems are terrible at this and even in the face of a landslide win I'm not convinced Labour have learned the lesson so much as the Tories just spectacularly killed themselves with disastrous government. I'm not suggesting we hold hands and sing kumbaya with genuine open racists and bigots, the likes of Trump and Farage have genuinely emboldened some of the worst of us to spew hate. But I do think it leads to a lot of people seeing everyone voting Brexit or Reform or Trump the same way and I think that over simplification is killing us. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 18 minutes ago, Finnegan said: This is a massive easier said than done but you deal with the root causes. We're living in a period of immense wealth disparity and inequality where even the middle classes are struggling. Throughout a large period of economic turbulence for the average working populace, the wealthiest people in the world have just gotten phenomenally wealthier. There's an enormous amount of stress, anxiety, hopelessness and pessimism and eventually that does breed apathy and cynicism. People will end up voting for individuals and parties that don't seem to represent the status quo because they're desperate for change. A lot of western, capitalist societies have attacked, underfunded and over charged for their education systems leaving a voting base increasingly lacking in knowledge and critical thinking. At the same time our news media and "new" phenomenon social media are owned and used more than ever by billionaire bad actors using them to push messages convenient for themselves. What happens then is populism. It's not a new idea. We've obviously, famously, seen it before but the conditions are perfect now to mass produce it and bombard people with it all day. Those same people that are struggling to afford homes and families that they've been told all their lives they just have to work hard for are extremely easily seduced by the message and who can blame them? Someone is acknowledging there is a problem and, better yet, they're saying they can fix it and telling them who is to blame. And why would it be lies, it's in the news and it's what I want to hear? So fix the global economy, stop capitalism running out of control and start truly and honestly informing the electorate, easy enough huh? But the last problem is closer to home and we're all responsible, both on a personal level and at a political party level and it's exactly what Daggers has just done (and I've done countless times.) Gordon Brown calling Gillian Duffy a bigot was a great early example because it was really a precursor of something in this country. Increasingly over the last fifteen, twenty odd years, the traditional parties of the white working class have lost them by either looking down at them or looking through them. Legitimate concerns about immigration in the context of housing and employment have been handwaved off as racism and bigotry leaving the door absolutely wide open for the Mails and the Suns of this world to help steal millions of votes. We have to stop hearing people's fears and anxieties - of which they should have plenty - and just dismissing them as ignorant without acknowledging that there's something there. If all we do is call people idiots or stupid or bigots or whatever else in response to, ultimately, their desire for a better life then we're never going to win those people back. And we need them. Labour, the Democrats, these parties have to start going toe to toe with populism and addressing the concerns of their historic base. The Dems are terrible at this and even in the face of a landslide win I'm not convinced Labour have learned the lesson so much as the Tories just spectacularly killed themselves with disastrous government. I'm not suggesting we hold hands and sing kumbaya with genuine open racists and bigots, the likes of Trump and Farage have genuinely emboldened some of the worst of us to spew hate. But I do think it leads to a lot of people seeing everyone voting Brexit or Reform or Trump the same way and I think that over simplification is killing us. TLDR: Educate and create opportunity, while clamping down on corruption and criminality Addendum: Call out bigotry and intolerance online and IRL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July How awful.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51yje5mz2ro 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_horns Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July Starmer is still getting used to his new role obviously! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/ckkgrw3lwp1o 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 1 hour ago, Wymsey said: How awful.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51yje5mz2ro Am I alone in wondering about quick gofundme responses to awful situations ? There is no one overseeing what’s going on - I know im a natural cynic so I worry that some people could exploit the general public’s natural empathy for victims. No one knows what financial arrangements families have. even close family may not be aware. I noticed that there was a page created after the dreadful murders of the mother and two daughters in Bushey for the surviving adult daughter. or am I just a dreadful person to be wondering ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 3 hours ago, Finnegan said: .We have to stop hearing people's fears and anxieties - of which they should have plenty - and just dismissing them as ignorant without acknowledging that there's something there. If all we do is call people idiots or stupid or bigots or whatever else in response to, ultimately, their desire for a better life then we're never going to win those people back. I mean I agree to an extent but some of these people are not holding legitimate concerns, they're using the environment to push their prejudices. like, assuming this did actually happen: that guy doesn't have "legitimate concerns", he's just a racist twat emboldened by the way that multiple governments have pandered to that ideology. even then, for those who are genuinely ignorant and have real concerns, the answer is not to agree that there's something there, it's to explain the way their anxieties are being manipulated by people with an agenda. immigration isn't causing issues with housing or jobs, landlords and corporate greed is. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 1 minute ago, The Doctor said: I mean I agree to an extent but some of these people are not holding legitimate concerns, they're using the environment to push their prejudices. like, assuming this did actually happen: that guy doesn't have "legitimate concerns", he's just a racist twat emboldened by the way that multiple governments have pandered to that ideology. even then, for those who are genuinely ignorant and have real concerns, the answer is not to agree that there's something there, it's to explain the way their anxieties are being manipulated by people with an agenda. immigration isn't causing issues with housing or jobs, landlords and corporate greed is. 3 hours ago, Daggers said: Addendum: Call out bigotry and intolerance online and IRL 3 hours ago, Finnegan said: I'm not suggesting we hold hands and sing kumbaya with genuine open racists and bigots, the likes of Trump and Farage have genuinely emboldened some of the worst of us to spew hate. But I do think it leads to a lot of people seeing everyone voting Brexit or Reform or Trump the same way and I think that over simplification is killing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 23 July Share Posted 23 July 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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