Popular Post Daggers Posted 25 July Popular Post Share Posted 25 July 6 hours ago, MPH said: Power corrupts. Let it go. The mods have made their decision to ban Col and I for one fully support them. It isn't an easy job, they don't get paid, and Col has been a raging arse for as long as I can remember. *in no way is this me taking an opportunity to gloat at Col's banning **bwahahahahababababahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 4 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said: It’s actually refreshing to see a clip of our police taking control of a situation rather than just looking completely powerless This would be an easier stance to defend and probably one I agreed with if the video didn’t show one of the officers stamping on the head of a man in a prone position. I can’t really work out where in the timeline of events that happens, so I can’t estimate what the perceived threat level was at that time, but the number of situations where that is necessary or proportionate can’t be too high. A brief search revealed the following list that a police officer should go through before deciding to use force: 1. Would the use of force have a lawful objective (e.g. the prevention of injury to others or damage to property, or the effecting of a lawful arrest) and, if so, how immediate and grave is the threat posed? 2. Are there any means, short of the use of force, capable of attaining the lawful objective identified? 3. Having regard to the nature and gravity of the threat, and the potential for adverse consequences to arise from the use of force (including the risk of escalation and the exposure of others to harm), what is the minimum level of force required to attain the objective identified, and would the use of that level of force be proportionate or excessive? I am struggling to see how the kick and stamp to the head meet those criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 11 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said: This would be an easier stance to defend and probably one I agreed with if the video didn’t show one of the officers stamping on the head of a man in a prone position. I can’t really work out where in the timeline of events that happens, so I can’t estimate what the perceived threat level was at that time, but the number of situations where that is necessary or proportionate can’t be too high. A brief search revealed the following list that a police officer should go through before deciding to use force: 1. Would the use of force have a lawful objective (e.g. the prevention of injury to others or damage to property, or the effecting of a lawful arrest) and, if so, how immediate and grave is the threat posed? 2. Are there any means, short of the use of force, capable of attaining the lawful objective identified? 3. Having regard to the nature and gravity of the threat, and the potential for adverse consequences to arise from the use of force (including the risk of escalation and the exposure of others to harm), what is the minimum level of force required to attain the objective identified, and would the use of that level of force be proportionate or excessive? I am struggling to see how the kick and stamp to the head meet those criteria. I didn’t say it wasn’t over excessive, but honestly most of the time I see videos of our officers these days they look like a dear in the headlights. like I’d rather them go too far than too little if that makes sense. The geezer gave a bird a broken nose, I fail to have sympathy for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 19 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said: I didn’t say it wasn’t over excessive, but honestly most of the time I see videos of our officers these days they look like a dear in the headlights. like I’d rather them go too far than too little if that makes sense. The geezer gave a bird a broken nose, I fail to have sympathy for him I fully understand where you’re coming from and I agree with your view on the videos of timid police struggling to contain a situation. I fear that this is actually just another example of that though. The situation seemed to escalate way out of control, there was screaming and shouting and chaos, there didn’t appear to be an obvious plan of action, and in one video I saw a female police officer appeared to be crying and confused, presumably as a result of being attacked. I don’t really think this is a great example of strong, competent policing. It looked more like panicked officers who weren’t sure what they were supposed to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July (edited) 8 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: I get the feeling this pair will regret these comments on this incident as more becomes known. It’s notable Farage has said nothing so far and even Lozzer Fox has called the officers action out for what it is. Not at all. It’s all part of their ‘culture war’. The officer gets sacked and to them and their supporters, it’s further proof that we’ve sold out to Muslims and that we’re a woke mamby pamby mess. Of course if officers stomped on the head of a person at an EDL rally this weekend, I’m sure their response would be exactly the same, right? And I’m sure us football fans would be delighted to know that leading politicians have given the green light to the police to start kicking and stomping on our heads, because the police never abuse their power with football fans. Edited 25 July by Lionator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 11 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said: I fully understand where you’re coming from and I agree with your view on the videos of timid police struggling to contain a situation. I fear that this is actually just another example of that though. The situation seemed to escalate way out of control, there was screaming and shouting and chaos, there didn’t appear to be an obvious plan of action, and in one video I saw a female police officer appeared to be crying and confused, presumably as a result of being attacked. I don’t really think this is a great example of strong, competent policing. It looked more like panicked officers who weren’t sure what they were supposed to be doing. It was just the one who did the kicking and stomping. The rest acted fine and proportionally, the other one should be sacked and charged with assault as he’s lucky the bloke isn’t dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July I understand the response - for all we know the pc with the broken nose could be a v close colleague to the officer. But these guys are paid to control their emotions. There are standards that they have to meet and this bloke fell far below them by choosing to strike the head of a prone suspect with his boot. - twice. We can wonder if the officer will claim that he did not know if the suspects had any weapons and chose his actions to avoid any risk whatsoever - but what about his taser ? this fella’s career on front line policing is v likely over. If he’s charged with assault then he’s surely out of the force completely? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowlattsFox Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July Got no problem with the police being physical if necessary but at that moment it was clearly excessive. Especially to the head, kick him in the bollocks or something Something you are not going to get away with these days, with cameras everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 8 hours ago, HighPeakFox said: How dare that man purport to speak on behalf the 'vast majority of decent Brits'. And who is this 'we' he is brazen enough to claim to represent? Though knowing a lot of Brits I have a feeling he may not be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July Do we know what these "victims" in this Police thing actually did in order for the usual minority in Rochdale to set about a police station and seek justice? I presume they didn't just have an extra few kilos on their luggage allowance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 41 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said: Got no problem with the police being physical if necessary but at that moment it was clearly excessive. Especially to the head, kick him in the bollocks or something Something you are not going to get away with these days, with cameras everywhere. Something they should never have gotten away with anyway. Doesn't matter what he had done prior, he's on the floor and can't do anything else. Kicking someone in the head in that position is not how they should Police, it's outright physical/aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 11 hours ago, adejo92 said: I was a police officer for almost 10 years. The worrying thing for me was that you could deal with certain areas of society disliking you. It's almost a way of life for them and they are raised to not like the police. What became worrying is that you increasingly noticed that 'normal' tax paying & law abiding people started to dislike you. Now I'm not saying dislike in the way that they would fight you and spit at you, but most definitely saw you as a waste of time. It's a shame, because all police officers have families and homes. There's not a police officer in the country that doesn't want to get burglars and rapists, but unfortunately, through no control of their own, all of their time is spent dealing with people that are vulnerable, or people who can't have an amicable relationship. Less officers, more demand. There's absolutely no victim satisfaction from the police any more and most of the time, it's reactive policing, not proactive. I could go on forever, but I hate seeing the growing trend of being anti - police when I know how hard 99% of police officers on the ground work. Well done on you for being a Copper, i was a special for 4 years around Spinney Hills and i can appreciate the hard work you lot do. Unfortunately alot of good coppers are leaving as its just not worth the sh1t they get, all the admin involved and all the Know it all lawyers on the streets with their phones out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Posted 25 July Popular Post Share Posted 25 July 5 minutes ago, Raj said: Well done on you for being a Copper, i was a special for 4 years around Spinney Hills and i can appreciate the hard work you lot do. Unfortunately alot of good coppers are leaving as its just not worth the sh1t they get, all the admin involved and all the Know it all lawyers on the streets with their phones out. Which one is you, Raj? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy boxing Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 12 hours ago, adejo92 said: I was a police officer for almost 10 years. The worrying thing for me was that you could deal with certain areas of society disliking you. It's almost a way of life for them and they are raised to not like the police. What became worrying is that you increasingly noticed that 'normal' tax paying & law abiding people started to dislike you. Now I'm not saying dislike in the way that they would fight you and spit at you, but most definitely saw you as a waste of time. It's a shame, because all police officers have families and homes. There's not a police officer in the country that doesn't want to get burglars and rapists, but unfortunately, through no control of their own, all of their time is spent dealing with people that are vulnerable, or people who can't have an amicable relationship. Less officers, more demand. There's absolutely no victim satisfaction from the police any more and most of the time, it's reactive policing, not proactive. I could go on forever, but I hate seeing the growing trend of being anti - police when I know how hard 99% of police officers on the ground work. There's so many cases now of corrupt police officers and police officers committed sexual offences not to mention illegal strip searches in custody. You used to be able to trust a policeman but now just as Sarah Everard found out you can't trust all of them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Falling Foxes Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 58 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said: Got no problem with the police being physical if necessary but at that moment it was clearly excessive. Especially to the head, kick him in the bollocks or something Something you are not going to get away with these days, with cameras everywhere. Are you a fella? I reckon most men would rather have a kick to the head than the balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 10 minutes ago, Nick said: Which one is you, Raj? He did too much too young 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_up_north Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 6 minutes ago, Daggers said: He did too much too young Place has been a ghost town since he left 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July (edited) 1 minute ago, fox_up_north said: Place has been a ghost town since he left But it's the dawning of a new era Edited 25 July by Daggers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 25 July Author Share Posted 25 July I come in here looking for some serious debate of topical issues and all it is is a list of Specials songs, leaving me with a blank expression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sampson Posted 25 July Popular Post Share Posted 25 July 3 hours ago, st albans fox said: I understand the response - for all we know the pc with the broken nose could be a v close colleague to the officer. But these guys are paid to control their emotions. There are standards that they have to meet and this bloke fell far below them by choosing to strike the head of a prone suspect with his boot. - twice. We can wonder if the officer will claim that he did not know if the suspects had any weapons and chose his actions to avoid any risk whatsoever - but what about his taser ? this fella’s career on front line policing is v likely over. If he’s charged with assault then he’s surely out of the force completely? I think he’s lucky the guy wasn’t killed and he’d be charged with manslaughter tbh. That’s a pretty hefty stamp on the head against the concrete floor. Can’t see much chance he’ll work as a policeman again. Think he’ll be lucky to escape jail time but I’m no legal expert. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmt Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 14 minutes ago, Sampson said: I think he’s lucky the guy wasn’t killed and he’d be charged with manslaughter tbh. That’s a pretty hefty stamp on the head against the concrete floor. Can’t see much chance he’ll work as a policeman again. Think he’ll be lucky to escape jail time but I’m no legal expert. Agree. My mate is a firearms officer and thinks he deserves, and will, be sent to prison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 4 hours ago, Daggers said: Let it go. The mods have made their decision to ban Col and I for one fully support them. It isn't an easy job, they don't get paid, and Col has been a raging arse for as long as I can remember. *in no way is this me taking an opportunity to gloat at Col's banning **bwahahahahababababahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa Funnily enough, I know nothing of why he was banned or what happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 18 minutes ago, MPH said: Funnily enough, I know nothing of why he was banned or what happened! Me neither, hadn't even noticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 25 July Share Posted 25 July 5 hours ago, MarshallForEngland said: This would be an easier stance to defend and probably one I agreed with if the video didn’t show one of the officers stamping on the head of a man in a prone position. I can’t really work out where in the timeline of events that happens, so I can’t estimate what the perceived threat level was at that time, but the number of situations where that is necessary or proportionate can’t be too high. A brief search revealed the following list that a police officer should go through before deciding to use force: 1. Would the use of force have a lawful objective (e.g. the prevention of injury to others or damage to property, or the effecting of a lawful arrest) and, if so, how immediate and grave is the threat posed? 2. Are there any means, short of the use of force, capable of attaining the lawful objective identified? 3. Having regard to the nature and gravity of the threat, and the potential for adverse consequences to arise from the use of force (including the risk of escalation and the exposure of others to harm), what is the minimum level of force required to attain the objective identified, and would the use of that level of force be proportionate or excessive? I am struggling to see how the kick and stamp to the head meet those criteria. Would be interesting to know why the incident developed and if there was a serious attempt to take an officer's gun. Without condoning the kick and stamp with risk of a firearm being in the wrong hands the level of response would be increased I would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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