The Horse's Mouth Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 21 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Could be an absolute gift for Starmer and Labour. Fishy Rishi promised “professionalism, integrity and accountability” when he became PM. Since leaving Cameron has been involved in a massive financial scandal in which he lobbied the government for a company that then went bust and he made millions from it. And he won’t be able to be questioned by MPs in the House of Commons so where the **** is the accountability?! Come the election Starmer needs to use Cameron as the physical embodiment of everything wrong with the Tories and this country. The brutal austerity was started by him. The degradation of our public services started with him. The complete absence of accountability started with him. It’s an astonishingly daft move for Sunak who had previously pointed out that he’d only been an MP since 2015 so can’t be held responsible for the coalition government or anything before he became a minister. He has now directly wedded himself to the Tories entire 13 years of disgrace. Also not to mention that he’s in the Chinese pocket, there are clear conflicts of interest with him taking that role.You’re being very optimistic if you think Rishi survives till the next election tbh. Sunak needed to keep Suella to keep the party in check, the knives will be out for him because he doesn’t even stand for anything, II don’t think he appeals to either of the factions in the party.The tories are so rooted now and them rolling the dice on another leader really isn’t out of the question, they have nothing to lose it really can’t get any worse for them, they’re doomed with Sunak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 Toys about to be launched out of the government's plan re: Rwanda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_horns Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 57 minutes ago, Zear0 said: Toys about to be launched out of the government's plan re: Rwanda... Which country will they choose next then ? And why was Rwanda picked originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said: Also not to mention that he’s in the Chinese pocket, there are clear conflicts of interest with him taking that role.You’re being very optimistic if you think Rishi survives till the next election tbh. Sunak needed to keep Suella to keep the party in check, the knives will be out for him because he doesn’t even stand for anything, II don’t think he appeals to either of the factions in the party.The tories are so rooted now and them rolling the dice on another leader really isn’t out of the question, they have nothing to lose it really can’t get any worse for them, they’re doomed with Sunak. It can absolutely get worse for them. Imagine them not even being the main opposition in the next parliament. Sunak’s one of the best things about the Conservatives right now, IMO. He’s not great and there are things I’d hammer him for such as burying the environmental policies but at least he’s electable. The alternatives are the likes of Braverman, who is an absolute monster, and a load of others who would see the country burn for a millionaires’ tax break, people who genuinely seem to think that the country’s thickest ever PM Liz Truss was onto something. If the Conservative Party can’t be kept in check without someone utterly vile as Home Secretary then they should call a General Election. The last two times, a new leader was justified because the old one was either a walking scandal or a walking economic crash. They have neither such excuse with Sunak. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 8 minutes ago, Super_horns said: Which country will they choose next then ? And why was Rwanda picked originally. They advertise on Arsenal shirts. Done it to spite Starmer I reckon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthyfox Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 16 minutes ago, Dunge said: It can absolutely get worse for them. Imagine them not even being the main opposition in the next parliament. Sunak’s one of the best things about the Conservatives right now, IMO. He’s not great and there are things I’d hammer him for such as burying the environmental policies but at least he’s electable. The alternatives are the likes of Braverman, who is an absolute monster, and a load of others who would see the country burn for a millionaires’ tax break, people who genuinely seem to think that the country’s thickest ever PM Liz Truss was onto something. If the Conservative Party can’t be kept in check without someone utterly vile as Home Secretary then they should call a General Election. The last two times, a new leader was justified because the old one was either a walking scandal or a walking economic crash. They have neither such excuse with Sunak. We... have an unelected chap at the heart of our Government. Isn't it ironic, that Brexit was fought over such a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 4 minutes ago, filthyfox said: We... have an unelected chap at the heart of our Government. Isn't it ironic, that Brexit was fought over such a thing! Technically we vote for our representative, not a leader. (Although of course the leader is taken into account.) But the fact remains that if the option to remove a leader without a General Election was not on the table then we’d still have Boris in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 6 minutes ago, filthyfox said: We... have an unelected chap at the heart of our Government. Isn't it ironic, that Brexit was fought over such a thing! Unless you mean Cameron, in which case yes, that’s not good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaphamFox Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 28 minutes ago, Dunge said: It can absolutely get worse for them. Imagine them not even being the main opposition in the next parliament. Sunak’s one of the best things about the Conservatives right now, IMO. He’s not great and there are things I’d hammer him for such as burying the environmental policies but at least he’s electable. The alternatives are the likes of Braverman, who is an absolute monster, and a load of others who would see the country burn for a millionaires’ tax break, people who genuinely seem to think that the country’s thickest ever PM Liz Truss was onto something. If the Conservative Party can’t be kept in check without someone utterly vile as Home Secretary then they should call a General Election. The last two times, a new leader was justified because the old one was either a walking scandal or a walking economic crash. They have neither such excuse with Sunak. The Conservative Party's problem at the moment is that it is struggling to disguise what a basket case it is. In its better moments, it is able to maintain at least a veneer of sanity, economic credibility and cold-hearted pragmatism by picking its least insane MPs for the top jobs and leaving the rest on the back benches. It may be only an illusion of competence, but it's often enough to get the Tories elected. It's always a fragile arrangement, though - all it takes is for there to be a major disagreement within the ranks for all the nutters to come pouring out of the woodwork. Rishi has been partially successful in banishing the sheer insanity of the Johnson era, but it's too little, too late as far as the next election is concerned. While this has been going on, Starmer has been slowly restoring Labour's credibility after the Corbyn years. His popularity probably won't last very long when he's prime minister and has to deal with the UK's enormous social and economic challenges, but he will at least get a shot at being prime minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy boxing Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 52 minutes ago, Super_horns said: Which country will they choose next then ? And why was Rwanda picked originally. Maybe choose a country that didn't have a history of civil war, ethnic cleansing and genocide! Just a thought! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 47 minutes ago, Dunge said: It can absolutely get worse for them. Imagine them not even being the main opposition in the next parliament. Sunak’s one of the best things about the Conservatives right now, IMO. He’s not great and there are things I’d hammer him for such as burying the environmental policies but at least he’s electable. The alternatives are the likes of Braverman, who is an absolute monster, and a load of others who would see the country burn for a millionaires’ tax break, people who genuinely seem to think that the country’s thickest ever PM Liz Truss was onto something. If the Conservative Party can’t be kept in check without someone utterly vile as Home Secretary then they should call a General Election. The last two times, a new leader was justified because the old one was either a walking scandal or a walking economic crash. They have neither such excuse with Sunak. It will never get that bad, our archaic electoral system protects the two establishment parties. Currently they’re polling at what would be the worst political wipe out in British history against an opposition that isnt exactly inspired. Starmers not exactly Blair he just seems well adjusted in comparison which ain’t exactly hard. braverman is arguably more popular than Sunak with the electorate, but she would likely send the party into more disarray. Sunak really isn’t electable, he’s absolutely toast he’s pulling at 19%. Jeremy Corbyn was literally more electable. The Major comparison are quite appropriate They should’ve called a general election after Boris went tbh, but they botched it with his successor only lasting a month. Had they called it earlier they could’ve had at least a healthy opposition and potentially forced labour into a slight minority government. Now they’re staring into the abyss, and any move they make now is pure damage limitation. them shuffling the deck once more genuinely is a complete free hit. Either way they’ll be in the shadows for sometime unless Starmer proper cocks up when he gets elected, which I can’t see for his faults he’s at least a statesman and has played his role relatively safe so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 Loving the meltdown from the racists LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 3 hours ago, Greg2607 said: just in time for all those annual wage negotiations as well. perfect timing. Ours have been ongoing for like seven months at this point. No fvcking clue when it'll finally be agreed but it's gonna come with some hefty lump sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 1 hour ago, Dunge said: It can absolutely get worse for them. Imagine them not even being the main opposition in the next parliament. Sunak’s one of the best things about the Conservatives right now, IMO. He’s not great and there are things I’d hammer him for such as burying the environmental policies but at least he’s electable. The alternatives are the likes of Braverman, who is an absolute monster, and a load of others who would see the country burn for a millionaires’ tax break, people who genuinely seem to think that the country’s thickest ever PM Liz Truss was onto something. If the Conservative Party can’t be kept in check without someone utterly vile as Home Secretary then they should call a General Election. The last two times, a new leader was justified because the old one was either a walking scandal or a walking economic crash. They have neither such excuse with Sunak. Part of the move to oust him results from the quiet restructuring of the party of the future. Currently, with the epic level of MPs standing down and running away from the bonfire, replacement candidates are being/have been selected from a narrow pool - and far right nutters are excluded. The aim is to rebuild the party under a 1 Nation banner again, shifting itself back towards the centre. The fruitloop groups do not like this one bit as it will limit their future influence and ability to continue to fvck up our lives while lining their pockets. So, the game for them isn’t about the election - that’s lost and they accept that - it’s about who gets to restructure the party and who will be left holding the internal levers of power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 Markwayne Mullin: Watch US senator challenge union leader to a fight - BBC News We need abit of passion like this in our Parliament!! Not condoning violence obviously 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 6 minutes ago, Daggers said: Part of the move to oust him results from the quiet restructuring of the party of the future. Currently, with the epic level of MPs standing down and running away from the bonfire, replacement candidates are being/have been selected from a narrow pool - and far right nutters are excluded. The aim is to rebuild the party under a 1 Nation banner again, shifting itself back towards the centre. The fruitloop groups do not like this one bit as it will limit their future influence and ability to continue to fvck up our lives while lining their pockets. So, the game for them isn’t about the election - that’s lost and they accept that - it’s about who gets to restructure the party and who will be left holding the internal levers of power. Yeah, there is a solid argument to say that it’s better for the right wing nutters to actually be in charge for the election so that they can take the walloping loss, forcing the party to pivot back toward the centre again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 1 hour ago, filthyfox said: We... have an unelected chap at the heart of our Government. Isn't it ironic, that Brexit was fought over such a thing! I know I shouldn’t, but once in a while does not hurt. You, as an individual, vote for a party MP and not the party leader, so we actually have elected Rishi, despite this continued toy being ejected from the electoral pram by those who are fair weather followers of democracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmt Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: I know I shouldn’t, but once in a while does not hurt. You, as an individual, vote for a party MP and not the party leader, so we actually have elected Rishi, despite this continued toy being ejected from the electoral pram by those who are fair weather followers of democracy That may be true but the fact a number (probably majority) of people vote for party leaders (and refer to this in election coverage regularly) means that while technically you are correct, most people feel like Prime Ministers have no mandate until they have gone to the polls. I don't get why people have to try and quote the specifics of British democracy, most people understand it its just not how they feel it works in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: I know I shouldn’t, but once in a while does not hurt. You, as an individual, vote for a party MP and not the party leader, so we actually have elected Rishi, despite this continued toy being ejected from the electoral pram by those who are fair weather followers of democracy Technically you’re correct but that’s not what general elections are in reality. We’re also on about the twentieth iteration of the post 2019 Tory manifesto which surely needs electoral scrutiny sometime soon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 15 minutes ago, Dunge said: Yeah, there is a solid argument to say that it’s better for the right wing nutters to actually be in charge for the election so that they can take the walloping loss, forcing the party to pivot back toward the centre again. I thought that myself. One of the best things to happen for Labour's chances in the election was for Corbyn to have a massive failure. It's allowed Starmer to construct his own credibility almost entirely around not being Jeremy Corbyn and given him free reign to aggressively purge the left of the party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 (edited) No politics Edited 15 November 2023 by Dahnsouff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthyfox Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 49 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: I know I shouldn’t, but once in a while does not hurt. You, as an individual, vote for a party MP and not the party leader, so we actually have elected Rishi, despite this continued toy being ejected from the electoral pram by those who are fair weather followers of democracy I was talking about Cameron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 Just now, filthyfox said: I was talking about Cameron Ah fair enough, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 15 November 2023 Share Posted 15 November 2023 1 hour ago, Raj said: Markwayne Mullin: Watch US senator challenge union leader to a fight - BBC News We need abit of passion like this in our Parliament!! Not condoning violence obviously And 80 year old Bernie Sanders giving them both a bollocking. Superb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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