Also In The News - part 3

[Mickyblueeyes]

The post office scandal and some of the personal stories are just horrendous. I dont even know how much is enough in terms of compensation. Many good people have had lives destroyed. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The post office scandal and some of the personal stories are just horrendous. I dont even know how much is enough in terms of compensation. Many good people have had lives destroyed. 

Agreed. How do you put that into money?

 

I've always despaired at people who say, "that must be right because the computer says so."

Hopefully they'll be first against the wall when the AI revolution comes. 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The post office scandal and some of the personal stories are just horrendous. I dont even know how much is enough in terms of compensation. Many good people have had lives destroyed. 

The disgrace of this is now made even worse by the govt response being ramped up on the back of public interest following a tv drama

 

where the hell have all these officials and ministers been since 2021 when the high court case was won ?? 
 

 

[LiberalFox]

It was a poster here @katieakita who alerted me to the post office scandal. Really makes me question how many people in positions of power are willing to do the right thing. 

[when_you're_smiling]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

The disgrace of this is now made even worse by the govt response being ramped up on the back of public interest following a tv drama

 

where the hell have all these officials and ministers been since 2021 when the high court case was won ?? 
 

 

The Met and government just using it for their own PR now.

 

The government in particular should have been on it years ago when they held their inquiries at the latest.

[kingkisnorbo]

6 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

The Met and government just using it for their own PR now.

 

The government in particular should have been on it years ago when they held their inquiries at the latest.

The cynic in me thought just as much. It's a pretty good PR move on the conservatives part pre-election.

[Trav Le Bleu]

For me the glaring thing with the PO scandal is the fact they charged 700 postmasters with theft.

 

700!

 

So, did they genuinely think that 700 of their staff had suddenly decided to go on the rob at the same time, many of them having given years of faultless service?

 

Or did they know full well what had happened. Not that they merely had misplaced faith in their systems, but actively knew that the odds of this happening by human endeavour were so long as to be impossible?

 

I remember that when the charges were originally made, my personal feeling there was more to this than just corrupt postmasters.

[Daggers]

 Vennells has been publicly shamed into handing back her CBE. 
 

Good. 
 

Now lock them all up. 

[LanguedocFox]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

The disgrace of this is now made even worse by the govt response being ramped up on the back of public interest following a tv drama

 

where the hell have all these officials and ministers been since 2021 when the high court case was won ?? 
 

 

Private Eye has been covering the scandal in detail and non-stop since 2010, and the BBC has covered it with podcasts and news programmes (Panorama among other) for years. The government are only taking an interest now because of the excellent ITV drama, but without that they would still be parroting Vennells’ gobshite.

 

Now the Tory press are seeking to blame Ed Davey, when every minister since 2001 is culpable.

[st albans fox]

25 minutes ago, LanguedocFox said:

Private Eye has been covering the scandal in detail and non-stop since 2010, and the BBC has covered it with podcasts and news programmes (Panorama among other) for years. The government are only taking an interest now because of the excellent ITV drama, but without that they would still be parroting Vennells’ gobshite.

 

Now the Tory press are seeking to blame Ed Davey, when every minister since 2001 is culpable.

They must know what the errors in the system were by now 

They should have to come clean and explain - those convicted of crimes they didn’t commit deserve to know on what basis the system erred.  
 

if it’s badly designed and programmed by Fujitsu, why are they still allowed to tender for govt business?   If it’s down to post office procedures not fitting the system design  then those convicted should be allowed to sue the arse off the post office. 

[Blarmy]

The Post Office thing is just what happens in all business’s everywhere. If there’s a huge cockup by someone senior, the little people get blamed. Senior people cannot be seen to make mistakes, their delicate egos can’t handle it.

 

It’s a disgrace that so many people have been so horribly affected by a handful of tossers who no doubt earned/earn a fortune for being bad at their jobs.

 

I would love to see some criminal convictions come out of this. A taste of their own medicine.

[David Hankey]

This a 'Good News Day' now the despicable Vennels said she will hand back her gong.

 

The fact of the matter is this award should never have been given in the first place. Who the hell recommended her?

 

Now, the authorities ought to go after her to repay the "golden goodbye" she received on leaving the Post Office to the hundreds of innocent sub-postmasters/postmistresses wrongly convicted under her watch. 

 

 

[dsr-burnley]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

The disgrace of this is now made even worse by the govt response being ramped up on the back of public interest following a tv drama

 

where the hell have all these officials and ministers been since 2021 when the high court case was won ?? 
 

 

They started an enquiry in 2021.  It's still going on.  How on earth they can spend 2+ years without finding anything, I have no idea.

[st albans fox]

23 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

This a 'Good News Day' now the despicable Vennels said she will hand back her gong.

 

The fact of the matter is this award should never have been given in the first place. Who the hell recommended her?

 

Now, the authorities ought to go after her to repay the "golden goodbye" she received on leaving the Post Office to the hundreds of innocent sub-postmasters/postmistresses wrongly convicted under her watch. 

 

 

I think vennels CBE is a giant red herring that the authorities are hoping will satisfy the general public 

And I’m sure that the press will lap that up and try to move on quickly 

and sadly, public opinion will do the same 

 

13 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

They started an enquiry in 2021.  It's still going on.  How on earth they can spend 2+ years without finding anything, I have no idea.

It stinks of incompetence but the govt are seeking to make positives from it - have they no shame?????

 

The answer is probably that Fujitsu and the PO are making the whole thing very technical when it really shouldn’t be. Those conducting the enquiry may well not understand the technicalities and won’t ask difficult questions for fear of looking stupid.  It’s been the same in computer systems for the past fifty years.  

Edited 9 January by st albans fox

[David Hankey]

Vennels is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many others culpable for the part they played in this massive miscarriage of justice.

 

From other Royal Mail/Post Office personnel such as Adam Crozier & Allan Leighton, Fujitsu, the NFSP, and politicians of all colours. 

 

None can hold their heads up high as it was known shortly after the 'Horizon' system was introduced back in 1999 there were problems.

 

No, today is a good day and just the start for those affected by this outrageous scandal. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Horizon Zero Dawn - a video game about a computer going very badly wrong.

 

Good thing it's just fiction.

[oxford blue]

2 hours ago, LanguedocFox said:

Now the Tory press are seeking to blame Ed Davey, when every minister since 2001 is culpable

The difference with Davey is he leader of a political party, and he must be hoping for  hung parliament so he can get a deputy PM position. Not a good look considering that on 31 occasions (since becoming leader of LD's) he has called on ministers to resign  ( mainly because official got it wrong, and dis not question advice).

 

He will be asking the electorate to take him seriously as a diligent politician when facts show that he has anything but. If he does not resign, it will cost LD's many votes/seats at the election. My prediction is he will 'reconsider' his position and resign; Layla Moran to be leader? 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, LanguedocFox said:

Private Eye has been covering the scandal in detail and non-stop since 2010, and the BBC has covered it with podcasts and news programmes (Panorama among other) for years. The government are only taking an interest now because of the excellent ITV drama, but without that they would still be parroting Vennells’ gobshite.

 

Now the Tory press are seeking to blame Ed Davey, when every minister since 2001 is culpable.

Ian Lang signed off on the Fujitsu deal in 1996.

 

One could excuse ministers since if they were being lied to by Post Office management but, once the system was implemented and you leapt from 10 prosecutions a year to over one hundred, alarm bells should have been ringing that a serious issue was afoot.

 

But the kicker is the wholesale lack of action from when the Justice for Sub-Postmasters Alliance was formed in 2009. This is when ministers became fully aware of the situation - and blame shifting to include Labour MPs is disingenuous. This isn't to say they might not have acted in a similar fashion, as "At the end of 2014, Paula Vennells was still remarkably insisting to MP James Arbuthnot in writing that “no fault in the system has been identified...”

 

There has been enough to cause MPs to act, especially from 2019. But then is anyone surprised that Johnson, Truss and Titchy didn't? This is on the Tories.

 

 

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Horizon Zero Dawn - a video game about a computer going very badly wrong.

 

Good thing it's just fiction.

Could be worse...

 

 

[ClaphamFox]

1 hour ago, oxford blue said:

The difference with Davey is he leader of a political party, and he must be hoping for  hung parliament so he can get a deputy PM position. Not a good look considering that on 31 occasions (since becoming leader of LD's) he has called on ministers to resign  ( mainly because official got it wrong, and dis not question advice).

 

He will be asking the electorate to take him seriously as a diligent politician when facts show that he has anything but. If he does not resign, it will cost LD's many votes/seats at the election. My prediction is he will 'reconsider' his position and resign; Layla Moran to be leader? 

They’ve only got 15 seats, so if your prediction is correct it will basically mean the end of the Lib Dems as a parliamentary party. But I suspect you’re right and that he won’t survive this. 

[Countryfox]

So Vennells has given her CBE back ..  Fvck that ! …. Vennells should be prosecuted for manslaughter.   And while I’m at it ..  that fvckin **** Randy Andy should be done for under age sex ..  

 

Ain’t gonna happen though is it ..  

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Could be worse...

 

 

I think Horizon Zero Dawn's dystopia is worse by quite a bit.

[Daggers]

11 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I think Horizon Zero Dawn's dystopia is worse by quite a bit.

I've played it for about 30 minutes and was a sexy woman shooting arrows at robot dinosaurs - that seemed awesome.

[Daggers]

*not awesome enough to carry on playing, clearly

[FoyleFox]

5 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

For me the glaring thing with the PO scandal is the fact they charged 700 postmasters with theft.

 

700!

 

So, did they genuinely think that 700 of their staff had suddenly decided to go on the rob at the same time, many of them having given years of faultless service?

 

Or did they know full well what had happened. Not that they merely had misplaced faith in their systems, but actively knew that the odds of this happening by human endeavour were so long as to be impossible?

 

I remember that when the charges were originally made, my personal feeling there was more to this than just corrupt postmasters.

This, absolutely. It's the sheer volume. I did, in a previous life, work in IT in Financial Services. If a good number of people reported the same issue, we believed it was the system, not the user. Rather than the times when the computer didn't work because it wasn't switched on types 

We did have people who had their fingers in the till. On the very rare occasion it happened, it was quite a shock. Usually, yes, they were of exemplary character. A lot of investigating happened to be sure it was theft and not a computer error before action was taken.

 

I might be cynical but based on previous miscarriages of justice and cover up's, I'll bet no-one is ultimately held accountable. Primarily, they need to sort out quashing the convictions and compensation for the people involved. How that's still ongoing in abhorrent. I genuinely thought, when the report came out in 2019, they had sorted it all out.