Also In The News - part 3

[Lionator]

35 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

Depends on the balance of power really. Who knows what things will look like in 30 years time. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like the majority of the pro Palestinian side would like to see the destruction of Israel. 

Plenty of my peers who went on marches feel that way for sure. Israel has no right to exist in their eyes.

 

I've actually enjoyed (not enjoyed as such) the debate above. It proves how stupidly complex this whole thing is. There is little doubt that the Gazans are the presently oppressed and that the Netanyahu government and the far-right orthodox groups are madmen, but the flames of historical trauma burn bright through them. Both sides see the other as a threat to their survival. The job for the Americans and countries like Saudi in particular is to create a circumstance where both sides don't see or feel that threat. Then we can start talking about the two state solution.

[jgtuk]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

And just shy of a million Jews were expelled or fled from Arab nations in the 20th century who went through the exact same trauma of having possessions stolen and land taken as the Palestinians are now. The constant "who's had it worse" is utterly regressive and simply makes the whole situation worse as it will always elevate the standing of one group above another.

 

If we simply "understand why they occur" as a justification for any form of terrorism then either side, and their supporters, can justify anything that Israelis or Palestinians do from now on. 

 

I'd hope the international community would like to act is favour of Palestinians and a future state for them and not as retribution against the Israelis which would have a predictable outcome. What irks most, outside of the 7th October attack and the dispicable retribution the IDF are launching, is that there are so many nations "friendly" to the Palestinian cause that have historically, and currently, done F.A to further the development of Gaza or the West Bank. The "new world order" decries the interventionist approach of America, who act in their own Geo-political interests. In some cases, like this, they need to get more involved. It's simply not enough for the Qataris et at to knock on the 5* residence of the Hamas leadership and say "do you mind releasing a few hostages? " and actually put their money where their mouths are to develop a state with a leadership that the international community can work with. There's never going to be a Palestinian State when it's governed by terrorists. 

Absolutely, and this is what we are currently witnessing are we not? I hear constant ’whataboutery’ whenever the subject comes up. 
 

The nations you refer to would have to go up against the world’s most powerful people in Israel and its allies. Literally no one can get into (or out of) Gaza or the West Bank. I have two family members who have both worked in Gaza (they are aid workers but currently in Yemen). 
 

It’s a complete mess whichever way you look but I believe (and hope) that politics and dialogue are the only way forward. 

 

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, jgtuk said:

Absolutely, and this is what we are currently witnessing are we not? I hear constant ’whataboutery’ whenever the subject comes up. 
 

The nations you refer to would have to go up against the world’s most powerful people in Israel and its allies. Literally no one can get into (or out of) Gaza or the West Bank. I have two family members who have both worked in Gaza (they are aid workers but currently in Yemen). 
 

It’s a complete mess whichever way you look but I believe (and hope) that politics and dialogue are the only way forward. 

 

They ought to put more pressure on Egypt, who have also closed the border with Gaza. 

 

There are two million Palestinians.  It should be plain to see why Israel isn't willing to give them shelter, but why aren't the Muslim nations - vast numbers over immense areas, they have plenty of room - providing accommodation for the 2 million Palestinians or as many of them as want to leave?  The fighters can remain, the women, children, and non-combatants can leave until the fighting is over and the UN rescue package can start.

[Dunge]

15 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

They ought to put more pressure on Egypt, who have also closed the border with Gaza. 

 

There are two million Palestinians.  It should be plain to see why Israel isn't willing to give them shelter, but why aren't the Muslim nations - vast numbers over immense areas, they have plenty of room - providing accommodation for the 2 million Palestinians or as many of them as want to leave?  The fighters can remain, the women, children, and non-combatants can leave until the fighting is over and the UN rescue package can start.

Because if they leave the land, Israel will level it and won’t let them back.

[MPH]

21 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

They ought to put more pressure on Egypt, who have also closed the border with Gaza. 

 

There are two million Palestinians.  It should be plain to see why Israel isn't willing to give them shelter, but why aren't the Muslim nations - vast numbers over immense areas, they have plenty of room - providing accommodation for the 2 million Palestinians or as many of them as want to leave?  The fighters can remain, the women, children, and non-combatants can leave until the fighting is over and the UN rescue package can start.

 

and this is the tricky part and potentially what’s keeping the border closed..

 

” are you a terrorist?”

” No”

” Ok. In you come “

 

 

 But seriously though, I’ll have to read up a bit more about it but I believe they are concerned about a refugee crisis and the financial constraints  of  upto 2 million people turning up on their doorstep. Besides they have their own simmering feud between the Coptic  Christians and Muslims  going on and the last thing they want are some terrorists turning up on their doorstep with a bloodied nose and hurt pride..

Edited 5 February by MPH

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

They ought to put more pressure on Egypt, who have also closed the border with Gaza. 

 

There are two million Palestinians.  It should be plain to see why Israel isn't willing to give them shelter, but why aren't the Muslim nations - vast numbers over immense areas, they have plenty of room - providing accommodation for the 2 million Palestinians or as many of them as want to leave?  The fighters can remain, the women, children, and non-combatants can leave until the fighting is over and the UN rescue package can start.

Ultimately the Palestinian groups such as Hamas and IJ are trouble which Egypt and others do not need.  They don't want to be like Lebanon and be overrun with Iran backed militant groups.  Why would they?  Just becuase they are Arab doesn't mean they like Palestinians very much.

[st albans fox]

I do wonder if ,( just as with the ukraine war), the prospect of trump in a years time may concentrate the minds of Iran and its proxies. 
 

if the polls are steadfastly against trump then it won’t have much affect. 

 

still talk of a six week ceasefire to allow the remaining hostages to be freed. (And a much larger number of Palestinian prisoners) 

 

whilst Hamas are against this because Israel will not agree to a complete ceasefire after the six weeks are over, I think they may accept it in the short term because the alternative is the removal from Gaza of their fighting forces over the next couple months  (for us it’s the deaths of thousands more civilians but that doesn’t seem to be part of hamas’ calculations) 

 

[Guest David Oldfields Gate]

12 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

They ought to put more pressure on Egypt, who have also closed the border with Gaza. 

 

There are two million Palestinians.  It should be plain to see why Israel isn't willing to give them shelter, but why aren't the Muslim nations - vast numbers over immense areas, they have plenty of room - providing accommodation for the 2 million Palestinians or as many of them as want to leave?  The fighters can remain, the women, children, and non-combatants can leave until the fighting is over and the UN rescue package can start.

When I went on my own eastern studies jolly to Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon, I think it was 2008, the one recurring theme was the only people they hate more than the Jews is the Palestinians / Philistines. They are the Cov of the Arab kingdom. 

[FoyleFox]

12 hours ago, MPH said:

 

and this is the tricky part and potentially what’s keeping the border closed..

 

” are you a terrorist?”

” No”

” Ok. In you come “

 

 

 But seriously though, I’ll have to read up a bit more about it but I believe they are concerned about a refugee crisis and the financial constraints  of  upto 2 million people turning up on their doorstep. Besides they have their own simmering feud between the Coptic  Christians and Muslims  going on and the last thing they want are some terrorists turning up on their doorstep with a bloodied nose and hurt pride..

That's what the USA have on their visa application form

[MPH]

19 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

That's what the USA have on their visa application form

 

 

I think they are giving you the opportunity to admit to any political affiliation that might be a bit dodgy!

[MPH]

Its 8:20am on a Monday morning and way too early to be this emotional  but i feel like this song is more important than ever!

 

 ( this version chosen because of the video  ).

 

 

[orangecity23]

54 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

That's what the USA have on their visa application form

What always gets me is the question about being involved in espionage. If you ever catch a spy with that, they must be the shittest spies ever.

 

"Are you a spy?"

"Yes. No wait, I mean no. Bollocks. I was confused by your accent, could I have a Russian translator please, comrade."

[Guest BlueBrett]

If Tucker gets the interview with Putin will our government allow us to watch the video or will they try to blanket block it CCP style like they already do with Russian news media? 

 

For our safety of course. 

[FoyleFox]

2 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

I think they are giving you the opportunity to admit to any political affiliation that might be a bit dodgy!

I'm not sure that they are just looking for affiliation that's a bit dodgy. Question 2 is "Are you planning to carry out any terrorist activity during your visit?"

I don't know exactly how it works if you're a terrorist operator type, but I'm fairly certain announcing it on your visa application isn't it.

 

(Yes, I know it's there, so there's an extra charge if you do commit said activity).

 

Although, they let Prince Harry in, who either lied or they did just ignore the drug use box....

[MPH]

1 minute ago, FoyleFox said:

I'm not sure that they are just looking for affiliation that's a bit dodgy. Question 2 is "Are you planning to carry out any terrorist activity during your visit?"

I don't know exactly how it works if you're a terrorist operator type, but I'm fairly certain announcing it on your visa application isn't it.

 

(Yes, I know it's there, so there's an extra charge if you do commit said activity).

 

Although, they let Prince Harry in, who either lied or they did just ignore the drug use box....

 

 

Cold shut case if you do then i guess. I mean, we are not just talking about flying a plane into a building, it also covers recruiting for training camps, sharing the wrong kind of material, ect.. stuff like that.

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

Its 8:20am on a Monday morning and way too early to be this emotional  but i feel like this song is more important than ever!

 

 ( this version chosen because of the video  ).

 

 

Tess Daly

[Bryn]

39 minutes ago, BlueBrett said:

If Tucker gets the interview with Putin will our government allow us to watch the video or will they try to blanket block it CCP style like they already do with Russian news media? 

 

For our safety of course. 

 

I mean, I feel like if you wanted to watch Russian media here you'd be able to fairly easily. Question is why would you want to? And why would you want them to be able to earn advertising revenue?

[Guest BlueBrett]

2 minutes ago, Bryn said:

 

I mean, I feel like if you wanted to watch Russian media here you'd be able to fairly easily. Question is why would you want to? And why would you want them to be able to earn advertising revenue?

Why would I want to?

To try to develop a balanced perspective maybe rather than simply relying on the disingenuous brain melting propaganda put out by Western mainstream outlets.

 

Does it not concern you at all that our government seems to think it has the right to restrict our access to information using the exact same tactics at the CCP? 

[Bryn]

Just now, BlueBrett said:

Why would I want to?

To try to develop a balanced perspective maybe rather than simply relying on the disingenuous brain melting propaganda put out by Western mainstream outlets.

 

Does it not concern you at all that our government seems to think it has the right to restrict our access to information using the exact same tactics at the CCP? 

 

How is Putin's media balanced? It is literally state controlled, controlled by a terrorist state who wants to invade half of Europe. You don't look intelligent like you want to here, you sound the total opposite. You can freely access news from pretty much the entire world to temper your views, we have one of the most independent public news outlets around in the BBC and you can find Russian media fairly easily if you really want and no-one is going to come for you.

[Zear0]

17 minutes ago, BlueBrett said:

Why would I want to?

To try to develop a balanced perspective maybe rather than simply relying on the disingenuous brain melting propaganda put out by Western mainstream outlets.

 

Does it not concern you at all that our government seems to think it has the right to restrict our access to information using the exact same tactics at the CCP? 

And watching an interview between two individuals who lie through their teeth for a living will give you a "balanced perspective" how?

Edited 5 February by Zear0

[Dunge]

“Funny story actually, Tucker.

 

All I said was that isn’t Ukraine lovely at this time of year and I wish I could give all the loyal men of my army and prisons a long holiday there. The next thing I know, there is a special military operation happening! We do laugh about it in the Kremlin.

 

Anyway, just give us the Baltics and we will be on our way.”

[Guest BlueBrett]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

And watching an interview between two individuals who lie through their teeth for a living will give you a "balanced perspective" how?

No you're right. There is probably no value in hearing anything from the horse's mouth and I should just defer to fifth hand reports and interpretations  

 

Our leaders lie constantly too so what are we left with if that's your attitude? I can sympathise with the view that it's all just futile but I can't understand why you'd want to listen to the lies of one side but not the other? Surely the best way to piece together anything remotely approximating truth is to take in all of it and look for the overlaps and contradictions? 

 

If they tell us constantly that Putin wants to take over the world but he says he was just protecting ethnic Russians in the Donbas are pre-empting NATO's annexation of Ukraine shouldn't we at least be aware of both arguments so that we can make our own minds up?

 

Why do you think they don't want us to see any of this stuff?

[Guest BlueBrett]

1 hour ago, Bryn said:

 

How is Putin's media balanced? It is literally state controlled, controlled by a terrorist state who wants to invade half of Europe. You don't look intelligent like you want to here, you sound the total opposite. You can freely access news from pretty much the entire world to temper your views, we have one of the most independent public news outlets around in the BBC and you can find Russian media fairly easily if you really want and no-one is going to come for you.

Did I say it was balanced? I just said I don't think our government has any right to restrict our access to it. Doesn't that kind of censorship strike you as somewhat authoritarian? 

 

If you think the BBC is independent and does real journalism I don't even know what to say to you  I caught some of the Jeremy Vine show at my Mum's house the other day and every single "caller" on every single topic was a blatant plant. 

[Bryn]

6 minutes ago, BlueBrett said:

Did I say it was balanced? I just said I don't think our government has any right to restrict our access to it. Doesn't that kind of censorship strike you as somewhat authoritarian? 

 

If you think the BBC is independent and does real journalism I don't even know what to say to you  I caught some of the Jeremy Vine show at my Mum's house the other day and every single "caller" on every single topic was a blatant plant. 

 

Anything with a public phone-in isn't serious journalism.

 

We're effectively at war at Russia and therefore are limiting their direct propaganda. You can still access news from states neutral or friendly to Russia such as India, China, South Africa or Brazil if you really want to know what's going on in Russia.

[Guest BlueBrett]

 

9 minutes ago, Bryn said:

 

Anything with a public phone-in isn't serious journalism.

 

We're effectively at war at Russia and therefore are limiting their direct propaganda. You can still access news from states neutral or friendly to Russia such as India, China, South Africa or Brazil if you really want to know what's going on in Russia.

Anything on the BBC isn't serious journalism. I'm actually completely staggered that you would say what you said after everything we have seen in recent years. They have loyally toed the establishment line on every single story, even way past the point of credibility. They also play a huge part in suppressing and censoring alternative media. Far from being some kind of beacon of journalistic integrity/reliability the BBC is a complete sickening embarrassment. Little more than the PR department of the British globalist contingent. 

 

You might think that is an acceptable thing for the government to do but I do not. Far from it. It makes me ****ing rage and question whether I can even live on this surveillance state socialist prison island any more. 

Edited 5 February by BlueBrett