Hamza Choudhury

[bmt]

6 hours ago, Nod.E said:

I think @MPH is attempting to excuse him on the assumption that it's possible Hamza may have unknowingly teetered over the edge.  

 

Unknowingly is the key word. Most sensible people know to just not entertain the idea of any drink driving, or perhaps cap it a pint.

 

Others believe (incorrectly), that they can remain below the limit at levels that are actually above the limit. Perhaps this is after 3 drinks, or 2 quick drinks. It'll vary. If this were the case, Hamza would be stupid. Stupid, but perhaps not deserving of widespread disdain and condemning.

 

Killing somebody by catching somebody while waving a knife about is a little different from full on going for someone. Both are ridiculous, but the judgement and punishment would vary and it comes down to intent / awareness.

 

However, given his rap sheet, and given the charge of dangerous driving, I think it's safe to assume that the above set of circumstances do not apply. 

 

And even if they did, I'd have less sympathy for a footballer who should know better. Not because we hold them to higher standards, but because he has the luxury of very easily paying for alternative transport. You'd just get a taxi, wouldn't you?

 

Irrelevant though. We literally know he was driving badly. And you wouldn't refuse to co-operate (at least when back at the station), unless you were fairly certain that you were over the limit.

 

I don't know why anyone would defend him.

Because we don't know the circumstances yet. And his 'previous rap sheet' isn't that bad to some of us either. Most people his age broke covid rules and most under 35 people openly back Palestine in the Israel conflict.

 

I know people who have refused to give a sample because they know the one that counts is in the station and know they are close to the limit. Its ignorant but common belief.

[bmt]

Also irrelevant of this circumstance which people fairly have an opinion on he's actually been pretty decent this season, is a good utility player, has taken much better to Maresca ball than most people on here expected.

 

Whether or not you think he's a twat and shouldn't play because of that, he's a decent player.

Edited 25 January by bmt

[Dames]

I’m all for players being able to do what they want in their spare time but there comes to a point where professionalism has to be questioned. These aren’t average office workers that can coast through a day looking at the same spreadsheet. They are top level athletes consistently and purposely partaking in activities that are proven to hinder performance. These guys are on huge wages and shouldnt be waking up in cells with a stonking hangover 2 days before an important game. 
 

One of the reasons we got relegated last year was lack of discipline and players who cared more about going out than doing their jobs and Enzo starting Hamza 2 days after this happening does not send a good message at all. 
 

 

[Bert]

1 hour ago, TamworthFoxes said:

We won’t find out how much he was over as he refused to give a sample.

 

But he’s been charged with Drink driving? 
 

They’d have to have taken a sample to be able to charge him with drink driving. 

Edited 25 January by Bert

[Bert]

56 minutes ago, bmt said:

Because we don't know the circumstances yet. And his 'previous rap sheet' isn't that bad to some of us either. Most people his age broke covid rules and most under 35 people openly back Palestine in the Israel conflict.

 

I know people who have refused to give a sample because they know the one that counts is in the station and know they are close to the limit. Its ignorant but common belief.

This is true. If they get back to the station and the one at the station comes back under the limit, they can’t be charged. 

[bmt]

1 minute ago, Bert said:

This is true. If they get back to the station and the one at the station comes back under the limit, they can’t be charged. 

They can still be charged with failure to provide a specimen, at the roadside (but not for driving under the influence etc).

[ClaphamFox]

30 minutes ago, Dames said:

I’m all for players being able to do what they want in their spare time but there comes to a point where professionalism has to be questioned. These aren’t average office workers that can coast through a day looking at the same spreadsheet. They are top level athletes consistently and purposely partaking in activities that are proven to hinder performance. These guys are on huge wages and shouldnt be waking up in cells with a stonking hangover 2 days before an important game. 
 

One of the reasons we got relegated last year was lack of discipline and players who cared more about going out than doing their jobs and Enzo starting Hamza 2 days after this happening does not send a good message at all. 
 

 

A message to who? Who does Enzo need to be sending a message to with his team selection? The courts will deal with Hamza in accordance with the law. Why does Maresca need to get involved? I doubt there would be as much clamour for Choudhury to be banished from the first team if he was a key player who we'd really miss. 

 

 

[Lako42]

7 hours ago, MPH said:

 

im saying that until we know a bit more, any explanation remains a possibility no matter how slight.. I do not neither will I defend a drunk driver. Personally need to know a bit more before I get as angry as some are getting on here.

You are making up other scenarios yourself which is a little bit like defending the person though isn't it. 

 

The facts are he's been charged with drink driving and driving badly at the same time, he's also committed an offense in refusing to provide a sample (not up for debate) 

 

He's thick as shit to get into this situation, he's drinking and driving, he deserves scorn from the community that he endangers, I don't really care how over the limit he would have been tbh, he's a selfish **** with previous 

 

 

[Dames]

25 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

A message to who? Who does Enzo need to be sending a message to with his team selection? The courts will deal with Hamza in accordance with the law. Why does Maresca need to get involved? I doubt there would be as much clamour for Choudhury to be banished from the first team if he was a key player who we'd really miss. 

 

 

Because he’s out drinking, driving and spending the night in cells 2 days before a very important game. Hardly ideal preparation is it? What sort of message does it send to the rest of the squad? 
 

This is how squad discipline breaks down, we saw the same thing under Rodgers. Once one exception is made the manager has no leg to stand on with other players. 

[Dames]

Also I find it mad that in 2024 people are defending drink driving. Im all for innocent until proven guilty but this is one crime that is very open and shut.

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Dames said:

Because he’s out drinking, driving and spending the night in cells 2 days before a very important game. Hardly ideal preparation is it? What sort of message does it send to the rest of the squad? 
 

This is how squad discipline breaks down, we saw the same thing under Rodgers. Once one exception is made the manager has no leg to stand on with other players. 

It's up to Maresca to decide how to manage his squad. We don't know what's been said or done behind the scenes, and I would not expect the club to make it public in any case. We just have to trust the manager's judgment on this.

[jgtuk]

9 hours ago, MPH said:

 The problem with this is that people DO use any and all kind of excuses. Some of them make you think they are more stupid that  hellbent on endangering others lives.  Hamza doesn’t give me the impression he’s got a willful disdain for human life so I at least want to find out a bit more before going off on him
 

What you say about  wether you lose someone or not is all a bit of conjecture   And what ifs  that hasn’t got anything to do with the point I’m trying to make. I used to work in the pediatric intensive care unit at the Royal for several years and I can promise you I’ve seen the  some awful results of drunk driving, so I’m not trying to excuse it in any way..

Have you seen him tackle!!!

[notnow john]

The lad is a devout Muslim, they don’t touch alcohol so at least one of the following happened 

 

1.  He had his drink spiked

2.  Contaminated vitamin supplements 

3.  He didn’t realise there was actual wine, in wine gums!

[Dames]

4 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It's up to Maresca to decide how to manage his squad. We don't know what's been said or done behind the scenes, and I would not expect the club to make it public in any case. We just have to trust the manager's judgment on this.

The same thing was said for Rodgers and look how that worked out?

 

I really rate Maresca i really do but he’s let himself down a bit here. This is a player with a proven record of drink related issues and he’s been allowed to get away with it.

 

If he’s not careful he’ll end up with another Maddison type clique that becomes uncontrollable with players more concerned with boozing than playing. 

[Gamble92]

4 minutes ago, notnow john said:

The lad is a devout Muslim, they don’t touch alcohol so at least one of the following happened 

 

1.  He had his drink spiked

2.  Contaminated vitamin supplements 

3.  He didn’t realise there was actual wine, in wine gums!

He needs to watch who he's drinking orange juice around/buying his wine gums then. Same thing happened to the poor lad after Forest away. 

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Dames said:

The same thing was said for Rodgers and look how that worked out?

 

I really rate Maresca i really do but he’s let himself down a bit here. This is a player with a proven record of drink related issues and he’s been allowed to get away with it.

 

If he’s not careful he’ll end up with another Maddison type clique that becomes uncontrollable with players more concerned with boozing than playing. 

Such as? Surely you're not throwing the Covid party thing in with this?!

[Tommy Fresh]

3 minutes ago, Dames said:

The same thing was said for Rodgers and look how that worked out?

 

I really rate Maresca i really do but he’s let himself down a bit here. This is a player with a proven record of drink related issues and he’s been allowed to get away with it.

 

If he’s not careful he’ll end up with another Maddison type clique that becomes uncontrollable with players more concerned with boozing than playing. 

Not related to this, and a different era but pretty sure the O'Neill years were just players more arsed about boozing.

[Nod.E]

2 hours ago, bmt said:

Because we don't know the circumstances yet. And his 'previous rap sheet' isn't that bad to some of us either. Most people his age broke covid rules and most under 35 people openly back Palestine in the Israel conflict.

 

I know people who have refused to give a sample because they know the one that counts is in the station and know they are close to the limit. Its ignorant but common belief.

Was more referencing tweets such as not feeling sorry for suicidal people. The guy clearly has no thought for other people, which aligns quite nicely with knowingly driving over the limit. 

 

If you want to toe the 'innocent until proven guilty' line, that's fine, but it looks really quite unlikely.

[bmt]

35 minutes ago, Dames said:

The same thing was said for Rodgers and look how that worked out?

 

I really rate Maresca i really do but he’s let himself down a bit here. This is a player with a proven record of drink related issues and he’s been allowed to get away with it.

 

If he’s not careful he’ll end up with another Maddison type clique that becomes uncontrollable with players more concerned with boozing than playing. 

How has this ended up as a dig at Maddison hahahaha

[bmt]

Just now, Nod.E said:

Was more referencing tweets such as not feeling sorry for suicidal people. The guy clearly has no thought for other people, which aligns quite nicely with knowingly driving over the limit. 

 

If you want to toe the 'innocent until proven guilty' line, that's fine, but it looks really quite unlikely.

Fair. I think he was 15/16 then? I understand you're seeing it as part of a longer pattern but I think people change massively and you are allowed more than one mistake. Again, depends how bad the drink driving thing actually is (and by that I mean how much he had drank etc, it is obviously always bad).

 

I agree it looks unlikely just think people are fast to pile in.

[ClaphamFox]

14 minutes ago, bmt said:

Fair. I think he was 15/16 then? I understand you're seeing it as part of a longer pattern but I think people change massively and you are allowed more than one mistake. Again, depends how bad the drink driving thing actually is (and by that I mean how much he had drank etc, it is obviously always bad).

 

I agree it looks unlikely just think people are fast to pile in.

Exactly. He was a child. If we're going to add crass tweets made when he was a child to his rap sheet, it's starting to look like a desperate attempt to throw mud at him by implying a pattern of behaviour over many years when in reality nothing of the sort exists. It's just a witch hunt, and when the Muslim stuff is thrown in too, it starts to look like a racist witch hunt. 

[adejo92]

Careless driving : The offence of driving without due care and attention (careless driving) is committed when your driving falls below the minimum standard expected of a competent and careful driver.

 

Alcohol aside, he's clearly been seen driving like a tw@t. likely the reason he was stopped and breath tested in the first place.

[Nod.E]

17 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

Careless driving : The offence of driving without due care and attention (careless driving) is committed when your driving falls below the minimum standard expected of a competent and careful driver.

 

Alcohol aside, he's clearly been seen driving like a tw@t. likely the reason he was stopped and breath tested in the first place.

To be fair to Hamza, that'll happen when you've had 17 pints.

[bmt]

42 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Exactly. He was a child. If we're going to add crass tweets made when he was a child to his rap sheet, it's starting to look like a desperate attempt to throw mud at him by implying a pattern of behaviour over many years when in reality nothing of the sort exists. It's just a witch hunt, and when the Muslim stuff is thrown in too, it starts to look like a racist witch hunt. 

I honestly think it's more about him being from our academy

[MPH]

4 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Are you his legal rep? 

 No but it was probably his legal rep who advised him not to  give a sample, I’d imagine!   He wax probably on the blower to him as soon as he was being pulled over!

Edited 25 January by MPH