Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[LanguedocFox]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

I see this has got other fans saying we cheated our way out of the championship.

 

Again.

This was and still is complete bollox, assuming we’re talking about the 2002-3 season.
 

First, at that time, there was no ten-point penalty for going into administration: arguably it was introduced following the fuss kicked up after our promotion.
 

Secondly, even if there had been a ten-point penalty, we’d still have been promoted because we finished 12 points ahead of Sheffield United in third.

 

Thirdly, things only kicked off when Colin willy puller started moaning that the aforementioned Sheffield United ‘deserved’ promotion ahead of ‘cheating’ City. And he only started bleating about that after they were hammered by Wolves in the playoff final.

 

On the Everton thing, I have horrible memories of our administration, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Football governance is piss-poor (witness the wrist-slap on the ‘big six’ after the ESL debacle). Whatever happens to Everton (a) will probably not impact on us; and (b) will not be applied to Man City or Chelsea, who have been cheating for years.

 

[LanguedocFox]

11 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

And Man city have never been officially found guilty so I guess that makes them innocent of all wrongdoing doesn't it?

There’s not been a verdict either way about Man City so they are innocent at the moment because they’ve not yet (YET) been found guilty.

 

There has been a verdict about us and our 2002 administration and subsequent promotion. The cases are not at all similar.

[SemperEadem]

15 minutes ago, LanguedocFox said:

This was and still is complete bollox, assuming we’re talking about the 2002-3 season.
 

First, at that time, there was no ten-point penalty for going into administration: arguably it was introduced following the fuss kicked up after our promotion.
 

Secondly, even if there had been a ten-point penalty, we’d still have been promoted because we finished 12 points ahead of Sheffield United in third.

 

Thirdly, things only kicked off when Colin willy puller started moaning that the aforementioned Sheffield United ‘deserved’ promotion ahead of ‘cheating’ City. And he only started bleating about that after they were hammered by Wolves in the playoff final.

 

On the Everton thing, I have horrible memories of our administration, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Football governance is piss-poor (witness the wrist-slap on the ‘big six’ after the ESL debacle). Whatever happens to Everton (a) will probably not impact on us; and (b) will not be applied to Man City or Chelsea, who have been cheating for years.

 

I think most are talking about the Tresteller deal under King Power.

[urban.spaceman]

14 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

And Man city have never been officially found guilty so I guess that makes them innocent of all wrongdoing doesn't it?

They were officially found guilty by UEFA in 2014 - they accepted a world record fine of £49m and had their Champions League squad reduced to 21 players for 3 years as well as limits on transfer spending.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/16/manchester-city-fine-transfer-cap-uefa-ffp#:~:text=Manchester City accept £49m fine and transfer cap from Uefa over FFP,-This article is&text=Manchester City have reluctantly accepted,new financial fair play regime.

 

They were also officially found guilty in 2020 - with a ban from Europe for two seasons and €30m fine, which was overturned by CAS in four months later - 66% of the panel was nominated/appointed by Man City, which didn't actually clear Man City of anything, just declared that their cheating was "time-barred" because it happened over 5 years ago (they'd point blank refused to cooperate with UEFA for over 5 years).

 

And if they're found guilty by the Premier League, see below:

8 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

This highlighted tweet from Swiss Ramble re Man City - I’ll post the initial tweet thread in the next post - is absolutely ****ing crucial.

 

IF they’re found guilty, we were explicitly cheated out of two seasons in the Champions League. We could sue for up to half a billion*
 

 

Then the CAS decision is null, and serious questions will have to be asked.

[fox_up_north]

Yes I think most refer to our 100 point promotion under Pearson. Which, again, was clarified.

 

Some people are just salty, I guess. 

[iancognito]

Never been in favour of points deductions for administration because it punishes players and fans for an owner's negligence but where it results from unfair expenditure - including transfers - it's perfectly fair because an advantage has been gained from breaking the rules. Annoying to see the likes of the Mayor of Liverpool, local MPs and that gobsh!te Derek Hatton having their say and claiming it's "only £20m" but that sort of bleating is part of being from that city.

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Someone needs to write to Claudia Webbe and ask her to represent us.

 

(for a laugh)

...no, we should bring in Cummings, one person who can ride roughshod over all legal and political statues, winning is all he cares about!!!

[SouthStandUpperTier]

We definitely gamed the system for our promotions in both 2002/03 and 2013/14. Questionable ethically, but no rules (as they were at the time) were broken.

[Foxaholic ME]

1 hour ago, LanguedocFox said:

This was and still is complete bollox, assuming we’re talking about the 2002-3 season.
 

First, at that time, there was no ten-point penalty for going into administration: arguably it was introduced following the fuss kicked up after our promotion.
 

Secondly, even if there had been a ten-point penalty, we’d still have been promoted because we finished 12 points ahead of Sheffield United in third.

 

Thirdly, things only kicked off when Colin willy puller started moaning that the aforementioned Sheffield United ‘deserved’ promotion ahead of ‘cheating’ City. And he only started bleating about that after they were hammered by Wolves in the playoff final.

 

On the Everton thing, I have horrible memories of our administration, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Football governance is piss-poor (witness the wrist-slap on the ‘big six’ after the ESL debacle). Whatever happens to Everton (a) will probably not impact on us; and (b) will not be applied to Man City or Chelsea, who have been cheating for years.

 

I  must to wondering what would happen  if 

[Foxaholic ME]

I   WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF 

[Foxaholic ME]

4 minutes ago, Foxaholic ME said:

i wonder what wouldhappen  if Man C  Everton   or Chelsea got punished like Rangers I dont know how many they murdered  to get relegated 4 divisions and there wasnt half the outcry

 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

And Man city have never been officially found guilty so I guess that makes them innocent of all wrongdoing doesn't it?

There is a difference between not being found guilty and having the league say we basically did nothing wrong an it was merely an interpretation issue of the rules. They changed them numerous times after that. 

 

That said, I'm not naive. The league likely gave in on that to get a quick resolution, rather than a costly drawn out affair. I think we all know we trie to bend the rules. 

[Foxmeister]

Our 2002 administration is irrelevant, there were no sanctions at the time.

 

It would be like Everton complaining they've been treated differently to Blackburn in 1995.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[purpleronnie]

Remember we paid millions for FFP a few years ago, might count ourselves a little lucky.  Not sure we should be the club taking any moral high ground.

[sacreblueits442]

4 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Remember we paid millions for FFP a few years ago, might count ourselves a little lucky.  Not sure we should be the club taking any moral high ground.

...isn't that like saying, all previous convicts should be against incarceration!!!

[David Hankey]

6 hours ago, Fox92 said:

If they were any good at the important topics then is country wouldn't be such a wretched state.

But where in the list of priorities does the deduction of points from Everton FC rank in your eyes?

[Qwerty]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

So basically, we (and Burnley, Leeds, Southampton and Forest) wanted to case to be addressed asap, but were told no, it had to wait.  It was therefore delayed to a season when the points deduction would have no real impact on Everton.  

It's hard not to see this as deliberate.

 

Sadly I don't see how we can win compensation, because it's surely not possible to argue that both us and Burnley are entitled.  If the points deduction occurred in the 20/21 season, it wouldn't have affected us.  If it had occurred in the 22/23 season, it wouldn't have affected Burnley.  So it's impossible to say we are both entitled to compensation based on the points deduction. 

Edited 21 November 2023 by Qwerty

[kingkisnorbo]

45 minutes ago, Qwerty said:

So basically, we (and Burnley, Leeds, Southampton and Forest) wanted to case to be addressed asap, but we told no, it had to wait.  It was therefore delayed to a season when the points deduction would have no real impact on Everton.  

It's hard not to see this as deliberate.

 

Sadly I don't see how we can win compensation, because it's surely not possible to argue that both us and Burnley are entitled.  If the points deduction occurred in the 20/21 season, it wouldn't have affected us.  If it had occurred in the 22/23 season, it wouldn't have affected Burnley.  So it's impossible to say we are both entitled to compensation based on the points deduction. 

.

Edited 21 November 2023 by kingkisnorbo

[Royston.]

Confused - did Everton know we were planning on sueing them when they sold us Cannon?

[majaco]

...and Newcastle can sign players from Saudi Arabia.   Are we sure there is corruption  in football?

[KFS]

16 minutes ago, majaco said:

...and Newcastle can sign players from Saudi Arabia.   Are we sure there is corruption  in football?

I’m so mad reading this today. Game’s genuinely ****ing broken.

 

If we weren’t due to go bankrupt by staying down in the Champ, I think I’d rather we stay there forever

Edited 21 November 2023 by KFS

[The Cult]

They’ll stay up, and in fact this will rally them to do even better. Sheffield Utd Luton and Burnley look well short of what’s needed - maybe Bournemouth could slip in there in place of one of those three if one has a good transfer window

[Fear Of The Fox]

Some fans (including ours) are finding now (!) that the sport is corrupted to the core. The proven corruption in FIFA/UEFA pyramid wasn't enough for them to realise that. These football teams are run by rich businessmen, they're milking everything, we're talking about companies. 

"Oh, it's just £20M", "Oh, -10pts is harsh".. Really? If it was your own company the government would have ripped you to pieces. 

I understand there's a difference because of the nature of the sport and the social impact but blindly supporting corruption isn't fair and good imo. 

[1972 Fox]

21 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Some fans (including ours) are finding now (!) that the sport is corrupted to the core. The proven corruption in FIFA/UEFA pyramid wasn't enough for them to realise that. These football teams are run by rich businessmen, they're milking everything, we're talking about companies. 

"Oh, it's just £20M", "Oh, -10pts is harsh".. Really? If it was your own company the government would have ripped you to pieces. 

I understand there's a difference because of the nature of the sport and the social impact but blindly supporting corruption isn't fair and good imo. 

Correct, and that's why we need the mooted regulatory body from outside of the corrupt football authorities that are currently overseeing all the wrongdoings.

 

Football really is hard to like at present. Such greed involved which breeds corruption.