Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[gurru991]

4 hours ago, don_danbury said:

how is chelsea not getting mentioned here? 

It's all about balancing the books. Chelsea know what they are doing but Forest & Everton are just amateurs playing in a big boys world.

[Chrysalis]

On 07/01/2024 at 18:11, FoyleFox said:

This season would be nice

Next season would be far better as the league will be stronger and we will probably be there, but I expect if it happens it will be this season as the EPL is trying to put these penalties in during a season where it wont affect who is relegated.

[Chrysalis]

On 07/01/2024 at 21:15, RonnieTodger said:

It seemed obvious from the outset that Forest will break FFP rules.

 

They sidestepped some obvious pitfalls (free agents and loan deals) but I’d imagine they’ve been offering daft wages.

 

Recouped some on Johnson and I’d imagine Morgan Gibbs-White will fetch some cash too.

It will likely be worth it, as they will still stay up with a 12 point penalty this season.

 

A proper penalty perhaps would be what happened in rugby, just force relegation.  Otherwise those that comply end up being the muppets crippling themselves.

[Chrysalis]

11 hours ago, Babylon said:

And people questioned why we were trying to cut our cloth. 

Yeah but which is the bigger penalty?

 

Relegation by not investing in squad, or a points penalty whilst staying up.

[Chrysalis]

10 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

This is a difficult one. FFP does seem to be a way to keep the top clubs in place and prevent other teams from catching them. Chelsea and Man City spent their way into the big boys club, but now no one else can do it. However, if the league was a true free market, it might become bedlam with every club owned by nation states and despots. These owners would have their Super Leagues, turn their teams into huge franchises, and you'd end up with a handful of super clubs playing one another all the time and killing grassroot and local level play.

 

What is the solution? I don't really have a good one! FFP definitely isn't it, but what is the solution? Is there one at all? I'm not sure.

One of two extremes, either a "fixed" cap that has no link to revenue.  Or a free market.  Allowing wealthy owners to compete.  Perhaps one linked with external debt as a means to try and keep clubs solvent. (debt to owner ok).

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

One of two extremes, either a "fixed" cap that has no link to revenue.  Or a free market.  Allowing wealthy owners to compete.  Perhaps one linked with external debt as a means to try and keep clubs solvent. (debt to owner ok).

I see the arguments about clubs running up huge losses and then owners doing a proverbial runner ala Portsmouth.

 

I think owner investment should be allowed, clearing permissable losses etc and freeing up finances to continue to compete. How the latter can be done whilst preventing the former is key. 

 

 

[Chrysalis]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I see the arguments about clubs running up huge losses and then owners doing a proverbial runner ala Portsmouth.

 

I think owner investment should be allowed, clearing permissable losses etc and freeing up finances to continue to compete. How the latter can be done whilst preventing the former is key. 

 

 

Then if people cant get round that risk (which I think is much smaller than external debt), then the best outcome is probably fixed cap, alongside a external debt provision, so if external debt is above a threshold you not allowed to spend up to the fixed rate cap, is a lower limit to get the debt down. 

 

Problem is if you have an internal debt provision, we in the same position as today, linking it to the size of the club and locking the status quo in place.  A fixed cap could be set at a level where most clubs in the division could spend that much with small losses.

[Number 6]

34 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

It will likely be worth it, as they will still stay up with a 12 point penalty this season.

 

A proper penalty perhaps would be what happened in rugby, just force relegation.  Otherwise those that comply end up being the muppets crippling themselves.

It's definitely the best season to get a 12 point hit if you're going to, but it would currently put them bottom on 8 points, 8 off 17th. I don't think they're playing as well as Everton to feel that confident about it.

[UniFox21]

Talksport reporting that Everton are using the defence of they've gained no sporting advantage by being £20m over the cap, having used it for the stadium build.

 

Surely if they're stupid enough to go over and not advantage yourselves then more fool them

[CosbehFox]

10 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Talksport reporting that Everton are using the defence of they've gained no sporting advantage by being £20m over the cap, having used it for the stadium build.

 

Surely if they're stupid enough to go over and not advantage yourselves then more fool them

Hearing a lot of this stuff. Sell more players! 

[ACF]

45 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Talksport reporting that Everton are using the defence of they've gained no sporting advantage by being £20m over the cap, having used it for the stadium build.

 

Surely if they're stupid enough to go over and not advantage yourselves then more fool them

Like Red Bull claiming there overspend was on catering.

 

That £20m “over” may well have been for the stadium, but it meant that £20m was able to spent on stuff to gain a sporting advantage within the cap that shouldn’t have been.

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Talksport reporting that Everton are using the defence of they've gained no sporting advantage by being £20m over the cap, having used it for the stadium build.

 

Surely if they're stupid enough to go over and not advantage yourselves then more fool them

That's just a silly thing to say

 

If you spend the 20m and stay with the cap, you have 20m less to spend on sporting activities.

 

If you spend 20m over the cap you still have the whole of the cap to spend on sporting activities.

[Tinman]

In all seriousness what is happening at forest is a real shame and we know exactly what it feels like and what they’re going through. At times like these the collective football family needs to stand together and pray that they die

[The Horse's Mouth]

Forest deduction would probs be next season right? They’ll just appeal it like Everton did and get handed it next season I’d have thought

[LFox99]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Talksport reporting that Everton are using the defence of they've gained no sporting advantage by being £20m over the cap, having used it for the stadium build.

 

Surely if they're stupid enough to go over and not advantage yourselves then more fool them

Didn't we also overspend that season in the championship on infrastructure and the academy? 

I don't know why but I don't understand how this lot can only be 20m over the cap when their wage to revenue ratio is beyond 95% and their net spend since 2015 somewhere around -300m

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 minute ago, LFox99 said:

Didn't we also overspend that season in the championship on infrastructure and the academy? 

I don't know why but I don't understand how this lot can only be 20m over the cap when their wage to revenue ratio is beyond 95% and their net spend since 2015 somewhere around -300m

Yea but crucially when we do it… meh. The whole footballing world outside of Everton more or less wants them to go down. Let an example be made of them I say.

 

And Forest are just a joke and clearly being run by someone who doesn’t know the rules or the difference between his fat arse and his elbow.

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Yeah but which is the bigger penalty?

 

Relegation by not investing in squad, or a points penalty whilst staying up.

You think we got relegated because Rodgers wasn’t allowed to waste even more money?

[Jobyfox]

David Orstein….

 

…..Everton and Forest are set to be informed they’ve breached PL sustainability rules (FFP) for the 3 years to 2023. It will likely mean both get a points deduction THIS season!

 

Edited 15 January by Jobyfox

[Jobyfox]

…. although no whispers of any action on the 115 alleged breaches by Man City 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

3 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Forest deduction would probs be next season right? They’ll just appeal it like Everton did and get handed it next season I’d have thought

Which is good, physically impossible for the bottom three to be worse next season, even if Cov jam their way through the playoffs. 

[urban.spaceman]

Just now, Jobyfox said:

…. although no whispers of any action on the 115 alleged breaches by Man City 

Much more complicated case. 1 charge of overspending vs 115 charges over 10 years based on second hand evidence with a club that have spent 15 years refusing to cooperate with the authorities, and whose CEO is on record saying they'd rather spend £50m on lawyers to take on the authorities than pay a £30m fine. 

 

Man City is a completely separate case.

[Les-TA-Jon]

9 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

…. although no whispers of any action on the 115 alleged breaches by Man City 

The difference is

• The scale and nature of Man City's breaches
• A lot of them date back to 2009 - when totally different set of rules applied - not the current PL's Profit and Sustainability Rules
• Man City actively didn't cooperate and didn't provide information and documentation that they should have / tried to frustrate the process
• Everton and Forest (and probably most other clubs) appear to have been completely transparent and cooperative 

Edited 15 January by Les-TA-Jon

[Lambert09]

19 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

…. although no whispers of any action on the 115 alleged breaches by Man City 

hope that both them and chelsea don’t get their punishment until next season. 40 points off of both would be lovely  

[LFox99]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

David Orstein….

 

“…..Everton and Forest are set to be informed they’ve breached PL sustainability rules (FFP) for the 3 years to 2023. It will likely mean both get a points deduction THIS season!”

 

where can I find that quote

[lcfc_forever]