Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[Finnegan]

32 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Net spend is but one measure of advantage 

 

I dont mean to make out they're some poor disadvantaged club. They obviously aren't. 

 

But I hate the narrative that A. they're only succesful because of money and B. what they've spent is unfair to the other big clubs. 

 

United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool all spend horrific amounts of money and all have disgusting resources. Telling Man City they can't spend theirs because they're not the established elite isn't helping anyone except those four. And pretending like Man City aren't an exceptionally well run club and ignoring what they do well is how United and Chelsea have managed to wind up as mid table muck with billions in crap assets. 

 

[Langston]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

You expect delusional and entitled from their fans. 

 

Is that the club actually putting it on their scoreboard? Fvck it dock them more points just for that the cheating cvnts. 

 

I think its a projection (done by fans) on either their new stadium or Goodison. It's not a scoreboard. Still sad, though.

[hackneyfox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

I think Chelsea were involved with payments from outside the club under uncle Roman’s ownership.  They cant brush that under the carpet. they could hit them with a huge fine rather than points deduction. Like several hundred million which effectively forces them to sell some players and perhaps a transfer ban of two seasons on incomings. 
 

I think Man City is so complex that it may never get resolved 

if they can’t find a specific charge where they’ve done something substantially wrong in their filed accounting then I reckon they’ll struggle to get anything to stick. 

I'm getting my info from a friend who knows someone who works for the PL. They are very much working on an 80 point deduction.

[Zear0]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Don't let anyone romanticise Klopp's Liverpool era. He whinged about absolutely everything, most notably "not having the same resources" as other clubs around them, then breaking the world record transfer fees for a goalkeeper and a defender in the space of six months. He was gifted a fluke Champions League win by virtue of playing against ****ing TOTTENHAM then won the league when Man City had a year off, which nobody will ever remember because it was during lockdown. They furloughed working class staff during COVID, tried to set up "Project Big Picture" when everyone was stuck at home in lockdown and would have reshaped the Premier League in their favour, then tried to set up their own league that would have bankrupted every other club in the world. All while colluding with the Premier League management to artificially keep themselves at the top and every other club below them with ambitions and the means to achieve them neutered at their expense.

 

In short, **** Klopp, **** Liverpool and **** the Premier Leauge.

Add to that they sold us Danny Ward.

[st albans fox]

18 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

I'm getting my info from a friend who knows someone who works for the PL. They are very much working on an 80 point deduction.

supposed to guarantee relegation then 

but you wouldn’t bet against them having it cut to 60 on appeal and then getting 100 points to stay up! 

[urban.spaceman]

23 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Add to that they sold us Danny Ward.

Edited. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Don't let anyone romanticise Klopp's Liverpool era. He whinged about absolutely everything, most notably "not having the same resources" as other clubs around them, then breaking the world record transfer fees for a goalkeeper and a defender in the space of six months. He was gifted a fluke Champions League win by virtue of playing against ****ing TOTTENHAM then won the league when Man City had a year off, which nobody will ever remember because it was during lockdown. They furloughed working class staff during COVID, tried to set up "Project Big Picture" when everyone was stuck at home in lockdown and would have reshaped the Premier League in their favour, then tried to set up their own league that would have bankrupted every other club in the world. All while colluding with the Premier League management to artificially keep themselves at the top and every other club below them with ambitions and the means to achieve them neutered at their expense.

 

In short, **** Klopp, **** Liverpool and **** the Premier Leauge.

I know the Project Big Picture stuff, but what these two things referring to? 

[Number 6]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Don't let anyone romanticise Klopp's Liverpool era. He whinged about absolutely everything, most notably "not having the same resources" as other clubs around them, then breaking the world record transfer fees for a goalkeeper and a defender in the space of six months. He was gifted a fluke Champions League win by virtue of playing against ****ing TOTTENHAM then won the league when Man City had a year off, which nobody will ever remember because it was during lockdown. They furloughed working class staff during COVID, tried to set up "Project Big Picture" when everyone was stuck at home in lockdown and would have reshaped the Premier League in their favour, then tried to set up their own league that would have bankrupted every other club in the world. All while colluding with the Premier League management to artificially keep themselves at the top and every other club below them with ambitions and the means to achieve them neutered at their expense.

 

In short, **** Klopp, **** Liverpool and **** the Premier Leauge.

I'm no huge Klopp fan but if you downplay their title win because Man City "had a year off" then what is ours worth? He also had a second place finish with the fourth highest PL points total ever. 

 

Great manager, but also a bit of a nob.

[hackneyfox]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Don't let anyone romanticise Klopp's Liverpool era. He whinged about absolutely everything, most notably "not having the same resources" as other clubs around them, then breaking the world record transfer fees for a goalkeeper and a defender in the space of six months. He was gifted a fluke Champions League win by virtue of playing against ****ing TOTTENHAM then won the league when Man City had a year off, which nobody will ever remember because it was during lockdown. They furloughed working class staff during COVID, tried to set up "Project Big Picture" when everyone was stuck at home in lockdown and would have reshaped the Premier League in their favour, then tried to set up their own league that would have bankrupted every other club in the world. All while colluding with the Premier League management to artificially keep themselves at the top and every other club below them with ambitions and the means to achieve them neutered at their expense.

 

In short, **** Klopp, **** Liverpool and **** the Premier Leauge.

We won the FA Cup as the country was coming out of lockdown.

Someone else has already mentioned about Man C having a year off when we won the league.

 

Not a great rant on your part.

[PhillippaT]

29 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I'm no huge Klopp fan but if you downplay their title win because Man City "had a year off" then what is ours worth? He also had a second place finish with the fourth highest PL points total ever. 

 

Great manager, but also a bit of a nob.

Which great mangers aren't?  

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

supposed to guarantee relegation then 

but you wouldn’t bet against them having it cut to 60 on appeal and then getting 100 points to stay up! 

next season would be perfect, it would slightly make up for them sneaking that champions league place 

[Number 6]

51 minutes ago, PhillippaT said:

Which great mangers aren't?  

Big Nige.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I dont mean to make out they're some poor disadvantaged club. They obviously aren't. 

 

But I hate the narrative that A. they're only succesful because of money and B. what they've spent is unfair to the other big clubs. 

 

United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool all spend horrific amounts of money and all have disgusting resources. Telling Man City they can't spend theirs because they're not the established elite isn't helping anyone except those four. And pretending like Man City aren't an exceptionally well run club and ignoring what they do well is how United and Chelsea have managed to wind up as mid table muck with billions in crap assets. 

 

I never said they weren’t well run. Though that seems a bit of an odd argument given they have cheated extensively!

 

Clearly they have had competent people running the outfit in terms of football and recruitment etc. But you may wish to consider how much they have spent on lawyers to delay their case hearing and kick it down the line etc. Money does buy you the best staff, and it also buys you the best lawyers to muddy the waters and cover up their cheating for as long as possible - and therefore extending their period of success on the field.

Edited 26 January by Wasyls Pec Deck

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I never said they weren’t well run. Though that seems a bit of an odd argument given they have cheated extensively!

 

Clearly they have had competent people running the outfit in terms of football and recruitment etc. But you may wish to consider how much they have spent on lawyers to delay their case hearing and kick it down the line etc. Money doesn’t buy you the best staff, it also buys you the best lawyers to muddy the waters and cover up their cheating for as long as possible - and therefore extending their period of success on the field.

 

But all they've "cheated" is laws that shouldn't really exist that say Man United can spend a billion a season but another club in the same city can't because they don't sell as many shirts in Asia and the Americas. Pardon me for not giving a fvck about that. 

 

Everton and Forest, by contrast, have escaped relegations that have significantly damaged clubs they were competing with who stuck to the rules. 

 

They've also spent drastically and dangerously beyond their means and put the futures of their clubs and even their wider communities at risk due to negligence, arrogance and ineptitude. 

 

The two just aren't the same. 

 

Oh and if anyone thinks I'm only saying that because we're involved now, go back and read a thread about Man City when we missed out on the Champions League cos we were part of the top six, Everton were irrelevant to us and Forest weren't even dreaming of the Prem. I was saying the same shit back then.

 

FFP is completely irrelevant at the top of the market and, frankly, is a con. 

 

But protecting clubs at risk from themselves because they're economically precarious? That shit is important. I'm really glad people have started talking about "sustainability" as a buzz word more than "fair play" because the latter is a hilarious misnomer but the former is vital to the future of the sport. 

 

Edited 26 January by Finnegan

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But all they've "cheated" is laws that shouldn't really exist that say Man United can spend a billion a season but another club in the same city can't because they don't sell as many shirts in Asia and the Americas. Pardon me for not giving a fvck about that. 

 

Everton and Forest, by contrast, have escaped relegations that have significantly damaged clubs they were competing with who stuck to the rules. 

 

They've also spent drastically and dangerously beyond their means and put the futures of their clubs and even their wider communities at risk due to negligence, arrogance and ineptitude. 

 

The two just aren't the same. 

 

Yes I dare say those clubs have broken different rules (I don’t know). Whether we like them, the rules are the rules. And I believe we have been wronged by Man City, who knows had they not cheated we may have finished 4th instead of 5th (absolutely not a given btw). But I agree we have been wronged more directly by what Everton and Forest have done.

[Jordan]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But all they've "cheated" is laws that shouldn't really exist that say Man United can spend a billion a season but another club in the same city can't because they don't sell as many shirts in Asia and the Americas. Pardon me for not giving a fvck about that. 

 

Everton and Forest, by contrast, have escaped relegations that have significantly damaged clubs they were competing with who stuck to the rules. 

 

They've also spent drastically and dangerously beyond their means and put the futures of their clubs and even their wider communities at risk due to negligence, arrogance and ineptitude. 

 

The two just aren't the same. 

 

You’re right about these not being the same, but they’re different in other ways. I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong, but some of the big things with the Man City thing aren’t that they spent X amount of money on their squad, but rather that they made multiple under the table payments to Mancini and to several players.

 

Some of this is ostensibly to avoid reporting money that can count as expenses under FFP but my understanding is Man City’s thing is only part a “reckless spending” thing, and mostly a “paying your employees as if you are a crime syndicate” situation.

[OntarioFox]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

But all they've "cheated" is laws that shouldn't really exist that say Man United can spend a billion a season but another club in the same city can't because they don't sell as many shirts in Asia and the Americas. Pardon me for not giving a fvck about that. 

 

Everton and Forest, by contrast, have escaped relegations that have significantly damaged clubs they were competing with who stuck to the rules. 

 

They've also spent drastically and dangerously beyond their means and put the futures of their clubs and even their wider communities at risk due to negligence, arrogance and ineptitude. 

 

The two just aren't the same. 

 

Oh and if anyone thinks I'm only saying that because we're involved now, go back and read a thread about Man City when we missed out on the Champions League cos we were part of the top six, Everton were irrelevant to us and Forest weren't even dreaming of the Prem. I was saying the same shit back then.

 

FFP is completely irrelevant at the top of the market and, frankly, is a con. 

 

But protecting clubs at risk from themselves because they're economically precarious? That shit is important. I'm really glad people have started talking about "sustainability" as a buzz word more than "fair play" because the latter is a hilarious misnomer but the former is vital to the future of the sport. 

 

I think the sheer scale of the breach on Man City's part is what's truly appalling. If the league truly does have an ounce of integrity in its body, it will throw the book at them to show that the rules apply to all.

Agree with the point about it meaning less for teams with seemingly bottomless pockets fighting at the top with Champions' League footy on the line though, and I think the chatter about stripping them of titles is just silly. Ultimately, I can't say with a straight face that we were somehow "cheated" out of Champions League football because of Man City breaking spending rules. We cheated ourselves out of it, because we were managed by an idiot whose man management got us to bottle it from seemingly-unassailable positions. Twice.

Edited 26 January by OntarioFox

[Vacamion]

7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Don't let anyone romanticise Klopp's Liverpool era. He whinged about absolutely everything, most notably "not having the same resources" as other clubs around them, then breaking the world record transfer fees for a goalkeeper and a defender in the space of six months. He was gifted a fluke Champions League win by virtue of playing against ****ing TOTTENHAM then won the league when Man City had a year off, which nobody will ever remember because it was during lockdown. They furloughed working class staff during COVID, tried to set up "Project Big Picture" when everyone was stuck at home in lockdown and would have reshaped the Premier League in their favour, then tried to set up their own league that would have bankrupted every other club in the world. All while colluding with the Premier League management to artificially keep themselves at the top and every other club below them with ambitions and the means to achieve them neutered at their expense.

 

In short, **** Klopp, **** Liverpool and **** the Premier Leauge.

 

Hang this in the Louvre.

 

Or on a massive billboard outside Lime Street station.

 

 

[Saxondale]

23 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

This is EXACTLY the level of delusion I expect from Forest fans. 
 

They exist on a different plane of reality.

[UniFox21]

FFP has hugely closed the shop even more. 

Wolves tried to push - FFP trouble and had to sell basically all their big names 

 

Everton tried to do something - FFP trouble 

forest tried to spend to stay up - FFP trouble 

 

Yet the big 6 spend like there's no tomorrow. 

What did intrigue me was Newcastle, Man United and some murmurs from Chelsea/Man City that they couldn't buy much this window due to FFP. 

 

Sadly Spurs new multi sport venue looks to have been a master stroke 

[HybridFox]

9 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Sadly Spurs new multi sport venue looks to have been a master stroke 

Yet the trophies aren't coming in 

[coolhandfox]

45 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

This is EXACTLY the level of delusion I expect from Forest fans. 
 

They exist on a different plane of reality.

To be fair our fans were the same over what fees we would get for the likes of Barnes and Maddison.

[Saxondale]

27 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

To be fair our fans were the same over what fees we would get for the likes of Barnes and Maddison.

The difference is Barnes and Maddison were actually sought after. Which of those Forest clowns would get into another current PL side, bottom three excluded?

[coolhandfox]

34 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

The difference is Barnes and Maddison were actually sought after. Which of those Forest clowns would get into another current PL side, bottom three excluded?

Think they would get a decent fee for Gibbs-White, but they did pay 40m for him in the first place.

 

I think we are also going to see a decline in fees in general due to FFP becoming more of a concern.

 

All club have a element of numpties.

 

[majaco]

...

Edited 27 January by majaco
Failed to quote.