Watford (H) 25 Nov - Post-Match Thread

[The Year Of The Fox]

12 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I hope you know that this is said with total kindness, but haven't you referred to me as High Horse Fox? I am clearly influencing you  

 

Seriously, I might not agree with you entirely, but boredom at football at large I can well understand and I can see how the current style would turn many off, results notwithstanding.

I was meant to come across as condescending to be honest- people who regard yesterday as ‘good football’ or ‘entertaining’ must be pretty ill. Or sadistic

 

5 minutes ago, westernpark said:

The football is not to my taste, it’s slow and therefore boring a lot of the time. I’ve been to about 12 games this season and one thing I’ve started to enjoy is watching individuals pass, yesterday Vestegaard but normally Winks. Another thing is that Maresca seems to be managing us off the pitch better than Rodgers and his seemingly lack of ego, except for his nonsense regarding anyone questioning his style of play is refreshing. Nonetheless, there’s a lot of snobbery towards anyone who questions Maresca’s football, however I think conversations are valid.

 

 

Yeah, from what I’ve seen/heard/read the parallels with Rodgers stop once you look past the torturous football style. 

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I was meant to come across as condescending to be honest- people who regard yesterday as ‘good football’ or ‘entertaining’ must be pretty ill. Or sadistic

 

Yeah, from what I’ve seen/heard/read the parallels with Rodgers stop once you look past the torturous football style. 

Maybe others see things you do not or are prepared to view some actions as of value that you do not?  

[ChrisFilter]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe others see things you do not or are prepared to view some actions as of value that you do not?  

No, he’s just better than us. 

[MGLCFC]

This is nothing like Rodgers football. There is a purpose to what we are doing and it often takes 60 minutes to wear teams out. Sometimes the fluidity and intensity is missing, but I like how the team have confidence in the system working eventually (which it has 14 out of 17 times this season so far). When people talk about us getting found out in the Premier League is there a naivety to think that better payers won't be brought in who can play the system more effectively?

I agree that even at this level we are short of quality in one or two areas, but with an almost fully fit squad now there is enough depth to be good enough to beat most teams, whilst allowing rotation. I looked at the bench yesterday - I wonder how many teams could afford the luxury of omitting Albrighton and Daka from their match day squad?

This season is all about one thing - promotion, So I'm not too bothered if things take a year to bed in properly as long as we keep winning.    

Edited 26 November 2023 by MGLCFC

[Stevosevic]

Loved the second half.

 

Hopefully we can get creative players to play in the number 8 roles and an effective striker in the summer and we will be cooking. 

[Super_horns]

@fox_favourite- Bachmann is a good shot stopper but dodgy generally and people have mixed views on him.

 

Particularly as he has been named captain despite being pretty hot headed .

 

Our away form has been very poor for ages really and we seem to not pick our more creative players like Martins and Asprilla.

 

Louza has been a big disappointment this season as well .

 

We are pretty limited it has to be said - certainly when trying to play a possession based game .

 

Be mid table at best for us .

 

 

 

[TrickyTrevLeftPeg]

People seem to forget that modern day football isn't exciting. It hasn't been for awhile.

 

Today's football style is more emphasis on possession and waiting for opportunities to present themselves than turning it into a basketball match.

 

Even in the premier league teams score then have to wait for a VAR decision to find out if it is a legitimate goal or not.

 

It's very rare now that games are high octane football and exciting.

 

Entertainment has been sucked out of football yet people don't take a step back and think about that or our position or even the league.

 

I've seen comments such as I wasn't on the edge of my seat , it's boring, yet here we find ourselves top of the league in a relentless league where games come thick and fast.

 

Every single other championship team and fan of there teams would love to be in Leicester position yet some Leicester fans moan about it 

 

If you want to be entertained for every second of a football match  perhaps modern day football simply isn't for you. 

[FOXSE]

Q.Do you still like football?

 

A.NO - it's not to my taste anymore, and frankly, I have better things to do with my time!

 

Q.How do you spend your time?

 

A. I play golf..... and spend time on a football forum telling them how silly they are to still enjoy football!

 

On a serious note, I actually said yesterday that there are people on here who just seem to not like football anymore. That's fine. Football changes and people change. I think it's strange to still invest time telling everyone about it, but each to their own....

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, ChrisFilter said:

No, he’s just better than us. 

He has just grown tired of modern football I suspect.

Always felt this season was always going to be a massive challenge with the start of an avoidable rebuild and implementing a new style .
Yes it can be tedious drawing a team onto you, but surely it’s clear to all why we do it, why Maresca wants this as a foundation to build upon.

[The Year Of The Fox]

17 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe others see things you do not or are prepared to view some actions as of value that you do not?  

Or equally maybe people overlook issues because we’re top.

 

I remember you being one of the ones who laughed at my views on Rodgers ball 27 months ago, all because we’d won the FA Cup months earlier

 

Anyway, all I’m saying is the football is drab. I’m not making any negative predictions based on my view. It’s just crap to watch

 

Anyway, back to the General Chat I go

Edited 26 November 2023 by The Year Of The Fox

[The Year Of The Fox]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

He has just grown tired of modern football I suspect.

Always felt this season was always going to be a massive challenge with the start of an avoidable rebuild and implementing a new style .
Yes it can be tedious drawing a team onto you, but surely it’s clear to all why we do it, why Maresca wants this as a foundation to build upon.

I have. It’s dire. 

[Richmondfox]

19 minutes ago, Hammo said:

I thought the difference between winning and drawing yesterday was that Vardy was a damn sight hungrier than Iheanacho and Fatawu is a much more talented and threatening footballer than McAteer.

 

Maresca deserves credit for making those changes even before the statutory 60-minute mark - though, on the flip side, hooking off (an admittedly exhausted) KDH completely messed up the balance in midfield, allowing Watford to set up camp in our half almost at the end.

 

There appears to be a bit of a war going on on here between those who appreciate our current possession-based style of play and those who find it dull. I get both arguments… but even if our football often lacks energy and excitement (as it did for almost all of the first half yesterday), as long as we are ultimately winning matches and remain on course for automatic promotion, that clearly is all that matters.

The possession based is fine up until a point, that point is usually after 20 passes when it comes to Nacho, James or Hamza who just stink out the play and send it back to Vesty.  James only seems to come to life after 75 mins.  Hamza is not suited to anything other than tackling and I like his aggression.  More times than not he will pass backwards and only seems to know what he wants to do after taking a touch too long, where Winks would’ve already passed and moved. It’s not Hamzas fault that he’s expected to do something he’s not got the skill set for. 

I like McAteer but I’ve noticed that he’s been overplaying the ball in dangerous areas.  He’s started to try and play out too much when being pressed, much like Madders starting doing last season where he would twist and turn back towards our goal and then lose the ball. 

 

Getting our wingers attacking with a running start rather than receiving with backs to goal would be more entertaining and positive to see. 

The main thing is promotion but the crowd need to see something to fire them up and provide atmosphere to lift the team. 

[Unabomber]

37 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Well a lot on here fooled themselves for 2 years of Rodgers ball, and I’ve found the Maresca stuff no more entertaining 

 

You might think that reading this forum, seeing us top of the table that I was missing out on a weekly basis.

 

I’m just relieved to find that I’m definitely not missing out.

 

That’s all

You said yesterday was the only game you’ve seen all season. But you also say you find Maresca ball no more entertaining than Rodgers. Which is it? Or are you judging all of the football that we have played all season on yesterday’s 90 minutes? 

[whoareyaaa]

Quite a lot of teams are going to possession based football even in the lower leagues as that's the way the game is going these days, rarely many team plays exciting free flowing football

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I have. It’s dire. 

Fair enough. If I grew up with rock and roll, I would still want to embrace new music though.(things change, including us)

 

Back to your good walk (spoiled). 

[foxes1988]

8 minutes ago, TrickyTrevLeftPeg said:

People seem to forget that modern day football isn't exciting. It hasn't been for awhile.

 

Today's football style is more emphasis on possession and waiting for opportunities to present themselves than turning it into a basketball match.

 

Even in the premier league teams score then have to wait for a VAR decision to find out if it is a legitimate goal or not.

 

It's very rare now that games are high octane football and exciting.

 

Entertainment has been sucked out of football yet people don't take a step back and think about that or our position or even the league.

 

I've seen comments such as I wasn't on the edge of my seat , it's boring, yet here we find ourselves top of the league in a relentless league where games come thick and fast.

 

Every single other championship team and fan of there teams would love to be in Leicester position yet some Leicester fans moan about it 

 

If you want to be entertained for every second of a football match  perhaps modern day football simply isn't for you. 

Tbh though when I watch matches form the 90s and early 2000s the games can be incredibly hard to watch. They are faster paced basketball games but no one can spring more then 3 or 4 passes together and most of the 'attacks' are midfields lumping the ball in the box from about 34-40 yards out.

 

Mixing it up occasionally by going more direct/speeding the tempo up/ pushing up positionally are all valid tactical options but any 'style' can be boring to watch. Even out title winning team was very boring to watch at times with the catenaccio tactic

[Super_horns]

4 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Quite a lot of teams are going to possession based football even in the lower leagues as that's the way the game is going these days, rarely many team plays exciting free flowing football

Totally agree.

 

Even seen non league teams do it .

 

Least you probably look pretty competent playing that way though.

 

Not sure teams like us do - it’s a bit of a hot potato for some !

[Pliskin]

I was getting pretty pissed off with the moaning and groaning yesterday…..

 

And the calls to “get it forward”…. Did they not see what happened when we did? I actually thought we were a bit more direct yesterday, there were more diagonal balls being played into Mavididi. 
 

There are even one or two who are suggesting Enzo isn’t the right choice near me. 
 

He’s done a bloody marvellous job so far, he’s managing to coach the likes of N’didi into new roles, and Ricardo. The quality of the squad should see us promoted, but it probably won’t be record breaking like many think, and hope. 
 

Enzo needs time, he needs backing to make this transition work…. Too often managers aren’t given the time and get sacked before they’ve had a chance to implement their style. We are seeing and implementation of this style,  like some have said we’re just one or two players short of it being a hand in glove situation.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Football is all about opinions, different people want/expect different things from their team in terms of style  and performance. Personally I am really enjoying watching us play, for me it’s a mile off Rodgers Ball as you can see there is a clear plan and structure as to how we play at times some of our patterns of play are exceptional, however I also understand that some fans want to see us play a more heavy metal style and tempo, and this is a million miles of that. 
 

However this style overall is delivering results and we are still at very early stages in the process. Of course we will get the odd week where it doesn’t click and we lose but from what I have seen this season, and yesterday was no different, the style of play creates plenty of chances and opportunities we need to show more quality with our end product, if we do a few teams will get pumped by 5, 6 or 7. 
 

what was noticeable about yesterday, which was missing in the last few games was the strength and options from the bench, the return of Praet, Yunus, Ndidi etc gives us the chance to mix it up and bring on real quality, I felt before the break we were playing with less intensity as we didn’t have the options to rotate. 
 

from what I saw of the game, I thought Hamza was very good and did a decent job, he isn’t Harry Winks but he was good in possession and on transition he is more mobile and offered better protection to the back 4 than Winks does. 
 

 

[Spudulike]

10 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

That's just fantasy - it's so far from being a goal it's almost not worth mentioning - he didn't get any contact on it, let alone good contact and he still has to get it past faes and mads.

Even if he did connect, and it was a decent shot and it gets past faes and mads isn't able to make a save and they score - i genuinely don't believe it would have made the slightest bit of difference, other than give us a kick up the arse - we'd have played the same way, created the same amount of chances and in all probability have scored the same goals.

But it would've given Watford something to cling on to and the time wasting and disruption would've been off the scale. I was encouraged at the start of the season that official's were actually trying to curb it but it's creeping back and being ignored. That said, yesterday's ref was consistant with stopping quick free kicks and kicking the ball away. 

[brookfox]

Took my daughter to her first game yesterday and asked her to describe our style of play; pass it sideways a lot, wide players run forwards, play high up the pitch, pass back to the keeper a lot. Pretty astute for a teenager who tbh doesn’t know much about football.

 

The upside is it’s very successful at getting points. Can feel slow at times but we slowly grind out the results.

[LCFCJohn]

1 hour ago, Happy Fox said:

Macateer is okay but clear to see he’s a back up, he looked out of place. Having Ndidi back was clearly the difference for us. At home I have said this before but the opposition will play 10 behind the ball most games, they won’t do a Leeds and press us man for man. So harder to break down, we do lack that creativity in midfield I feel, so if we can get a playmaker it would probably be the difference for us in terms of scoring more goals I feel.

Re McAteer, I thought he looked well out of his depth in the first few games of the season. That first game against Cov, it seemed he was a weak link and attacks stopped with him.

 

Then he was flying and one of our main threats, very clinical in front of goal etc until his injury. I wonder if he just takes a bit of time to get up to speed?

[Fox92]

First half was awful. Not sure why people are pretending otherwise. Everything went back and generally we were very slow. It felt like the players thought they could turn up and win. Far to many players were miscontrolling the ball, I lost count of how many times Ndidi fell over his own feet, and to many times simple balls were misplaced.

 

Second half better. Hopefully Enzo had a word with them, looked like it. Pleased for Vardy though he should have had a hat trick! Much better than Iheanacho, even at 35/36. 

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

Re McAteer, I thought he looked well out of his depth in the first few games of the season. That first game against Cov, it seemed he was a weak link and attacks stopped with him.

 

Then he was flying and one of our main threats, very clinical in front of goal etc until his injury. I wonder if he just takes a bit of time to get up to speed?

I thought McAterr was really good yesterday. He was making some dangerous runs across the Watford backline, we just weren’t finding the pass. 
 

The issue will continue to be players in those two advanced midfield roles….. something I’d like to see Praet and Yunus operate it when fully up to speed. 

[Ric Flair]

9 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

If after 42 points from 17 games your still having to explain to these morons why this is a good and effective brand of football and appeal to them to be a bit more positive then I say Fuch em, there's no helping them. 

 

Ignore them and enjoy the rest of the season historically we haven't had many like this. while they meanwhile burst blood vessels about the so called sideways and backwards football. 

Posts like this are hardly an advocate for which opinion is more superior than another.

 

Some fans find the attempts to control football games from start to finish as boring. It's only boring if things don't go our way (in my opinion) but that's no different to if you have a different style and that doesn't go our way.

 

There's a trade off in being a death by football team in using the ball in such a way that teams will find it very difficult to create anything meaningful against us but at the same time we can find ourselves unable to open up enough to create space ourselves to attack.

 

Yesterday wasn't one of those days, we just struggled to score but the tempo increased and it was seemingly only a matter of time.

 

I'm trying to be fully behind this style, it's not the ideology I'd necessarily have, it would be somewhere in between but all I ask for is Maresca is dynamic and humble enough to tweak things at certain times if and when we struggle.

 

Variety is indeed the spice of life.