Wednesday post match

[egg_fried_rice]

Blimey, you’re an angry lot.

 

It was utter crap though, so I can understand.

 

A fresh manager, still learning. Results so far should buy him a lot more leeway than he’s being shown on here. We’ve no divine right to anything.
 

On to the next one.

[The Year Of The Fox]

14 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

Blimey, you’re an angry lot.

 

It was utter crap though, so I can understand.

 

A fresh manager, still learning. Results so far should buy him a lot more leeway than he’s being shown on here. We’ve no divine right to anything.
 

On to the next one.

These retorts were used for Rodgers when his football became shite

 

Whilst you’re right concerning Enzo, the buck still stops with him if performances/tactics don’t change quickly. Or at least attempt to change. 
 

The only difference between Rodgers and Enzo so far is that Enzo hasn’t chucked the players under the bus yet, or totally contradicting himself in interviews. So we at least need to see an acceptance on Enzo’s behalf that his style won’t always work and a willingness to change it up. Otherwise he’s just a Championship Brendan

Edited 30 November 2023 by The Year Of The Fox

[jayfox26]

30 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

These retorts were used for Rodgers when his football became shite

 

Whilst you’re right concerning Enzo, the buck still stops with him if performances/tactics don’t change quickly. Or at least attempt to change. 
 

The only difference between style between Rodgers and Enzo so far is that Enzo hasn’t chucked the players under the bus yet, or totally contradicting himself in interviews 

And doesn't frantically scribble in a little notebook, look like a leprechaun or have chapped lips. However I am awaiting the scooby doo style rip the Enzo mask off to find Rodgers under there 🤣

Edited 30 November 2023 by jayfox26

[egg_fried_rice]

4 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

These retorts were used for Rodgers when his football became shite

 

Whilst you’re right concerning Enzo, the buck still stops with him if performances/tactics don’t change quickly. Or at least attempt to change. 
 

The only difference between style between Rodgers and Enzo so far is that Enzo hasn’t chucked the players under the bus yet, or totally contradicting himself in interviews 

The regression and poor performances had literally been going on for years under Rodgers. We've played 18 league games total under Enzo, 14 of which we've won.

 

I have nothing good to say about last night's performance. If we play like that for the next 18 games, I'd want him gone. Of course the buck stops with him - criticism of the last performance is totally valid, and, he should also get the credit for the dominant league position we find ourselves in. I also appreciate that winning lots of games doesn't necessarily mean we are playing great in all of them nor absolve the team from constructive criticism, although I am curious about what people think are realistic expectations for us on a game by game basis.

 

I don't agree with your assessment that there is little difference in style though. The tactics thread highlights numerous examples of things we have been doing differently this season. Whether you like it or not is a different matter. It just feels like the worm has turned very quickly because we pass it around at the back a bit.

[Product of 84]

Another thought. 

 

It's still November. We've still a long season ahead. We've a lot of games coming very quickly. Yet we face these games with only one significant injury- Doyle. 

 

It was really important we didn't lose last night (and we nearly won, even tho we were rubbish) but it was also equally important we didn't pick up injuries to key players. Also, perhaps, even more important to give some of the players returning from injury some minutes. They aren't bad players, but they won't reach their standards if they don't play. We know the whole squad is going to be used as we head now into the Christmas period. We've got a whole squad. 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is a point here a Sheffield might mean a run of games where we win comfortably against teams with depleted squads/shattered players. 

 

It's the hope that kills you 😂

[jayfox26]

I can understand making changes last night with us playing WBA at weekend but can't understand why he thought Casadei and Akgun would work together. For me, one of Wilf/KDH should have started which would have given us a bit more steel in the middle. We lost the midfield battle as we couldn't get on the ball enough in good areas to hurt them and they found it too easy to break through us causing them to have a fair few chances. Most of the chances they had did come from us making mistakes and giving the ball away. It really does show that certain players either can't fit into Enzos system or haven't had enough game time to adapt to the system. I've not seen much from Casadei or Akgun to suggest they are good enough and if there are other options available in Jan, then I'd be considering sending them back. Hope we have plans to strengthen in Jan and have identified some more players that can play the Enzo way as right now, we only have Mads, Riccy, Vester, Faes and Winks (Doyle when he's fit) that seem comfortable playing this way 

[lennybhoy]

Plan B...Put Souttar upfront ...sometimes football is that simple.We done it for years with Tags ,Walsh and Matt.But when you are Italian and have a fancy name,you have to overthink it.

Good managers adapt to games,I have yet to see Enzo do it

[Vazman]

Has Enzo found a couple of Brendan's old Notebooks in his old Office and started using them.  Hideous performance last night 

[Fox92]

28 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

Blimey, you’re an angry lot.

 

It was utter crap though, so I can understand.

 

A fresh manager, still learning. Results so far should buy him a lot more leeway than he’s being shown on here. We’ve no divine right to anything.
 

On to the next one.

I am yeah. Top of the league, easiest game of the season to extend that (going into a tough game Saturday), against one of the worse teams this league has ever seen and we take a point.

 

However it was the performance, again, that made me angry more.

 

Results and position of course have got him leeway, but also consider we have the best squad, probably the best facilites and biggest budget in the league.

[phildw]

Now everybody has got the knee jerk over the top reactions out of the way.... that was heading for a comfortable win, 3 points and remaining top of the league (yes 'top') after a third of the season gone, not to mention we have virtually booked a play off spot already. We totally dominated the game and were a class above what we all knew would be a hard working strong Wednesday side who are fighting for survival. Last minute goals happen that's football, but to suggest we are now 'crap' 'found out' or on a downward spiral is just ridiculous. Too many fans fell into the HMS P*** the league hype. It was never going to be that way and Ipswich, Leeds and Southampton will equally suffer similar results in the coming weeks. A point away from home and we move on. 

[LCFCJohn]

Waited until this morning to comment but what an utterly crap showing that was!

 

Bad results happen so I’m not bothered about the result and don’t get too annoyed at bad results just as I don’t go over the top at good results. Leeds were held to draws by Rotherham and Sheff Weds and Southampton held by Rotherham to name some. You can’t win every game and it happens.

 

What does bother me is the pattern of deteriorating performances. We didn’t get held last night to the leagues worst side by working their keeper and woodwork and being hit by a sucker punch on their only good chance. 
 

We pissed around and gifted them some great opportunities and were fortunate not to be down by a couple early on. And we really didn’t work them hard at the other end. 
 

Hopefully this run of performances and now the results is a short blip that you are always going to get. But I get the concern some are airing as we have been here before where we have looked very good, had a big lead and slowing, starting with the performances then the results, started to see the tide turn and our lead removed over the weeks and months.

[LCFCJohn]

Just now, phildw said:

Now everybody has got the knee jerk over the top reactions out of the way.... that was heading for a comfortable win, 3 points and remaining top of the league (yes 'top') after a third of the season gone, not to mention we have virtually booked a play off spot already. We totally dominated the game and were a class above what we all knew would be a hard working strong Wednesday side who are fighting for survival. Last minute goals happen that's football, but to suggest we are now 'crap' 'found out' or on a downward spiral is just ridiculous. Too many fans fell into the HMS P*** the league hype. It was never going to be that way and Ipswich, Leeds and Southampton will equally suffer similar results in the coming weeks. A point away from home and we move on. 

Sorry, I’m not a ‘knee jerker’ but that was not heading for a ‘comfortable win’, it was a scrappy 1-0 that could go either way after we had ridden our luck defending terribly.

 

Also having a lot of possession around the back does not equate to ‘dominating the game’. We looked lost last night and did not dominate either end where it matters.

[phildw]

We were literally seconds away from a controlled 1nil win and the reactions on here would have been good result move on. Its no good moaning about 'boring' football that puts us top of the league. That's how it is going to be this season, the tactics have been set out and they are clearly working. As I said all teams are going to have a few blips along the way but the key is to get out of this league at the first attempt or its normally a long hard battle after that. Maresca has clearly found a way (the table doesn't lie) if its boring it's boring, but you cant have it both ways. 

[Nolucklcfc]

9 minutes ago, phildw said:

Now everybody has got the knee jerk over the top reactions out of the way.... that was heading for a comfortable win, 3 points and remaining top of the league (yes 'top') after a third of the season gone, not to mention we have virtually booked a play off spot already. We totally dominated the game and were a class above what we all knew would be a hard working strong Wednesday side who are fighting for survival. Last minute goals happen that's football, but to suggest we are now 'crap' 'found out' or on a downward spiral is just ridiculous. Too many fans fell into the HMS P*** the league hype. It was never going to be that way and Ipswich, Leeds and Southampton will equally suffer similar results in the coming weeks. A point away from home and we move on. 

Absolutely nothing about that was comfortable. They had far better chances and could have easily won it. They got hammered by ****ing millwall! 

[phildw]

2 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

 

In this league everybody is beating everybody its a crazy league we can see that by the results. Leeds should have lost to little old Rotherham the other night so just because one team 'hammers' another it doesn't mean we should too that's just naive. You have to find a way to do well in this league and we have. It may be 'boring' to some who want to see hammerings every week because we got the most money in the league and the best training facilities but that's not realistic. Maresca and the squad have found that way and to me that's quality management. 

[Vazman]

13 minutes ago, phildw said:

Now everybody has got the knee jerk over the top reactions out of the way.... that was heading for a comfortable win, 3 points and remaining top of the league (yes 'top') after a third of the season gone, not to mention we have virtually booked a play off spot already. We totally dominated the game and were a class above what we all knew would be a hard working strong Wednesday side who are fighting for survival. Last minute goals happen that's football, but to suggest we are now 'crap' 'found out' or on a downward spiral is just ridiculous. Too many fans fell into the HMS P*** the league hype. It was never going to be that way and Ipswich, Leeds and Southampton will equally suffer similar results in the coming weeks. A point away from home and we move on. 

There was absolutely nothing comfortable about that match, we could have been 2 Nil down in 20 mins if they were able to finish their chances, it was hideous, I dont think we have looked comfortable in any of our recent matches, and when we play the Baggies it will be another uncomfortable watch, no doubt.

[LCCFox96]

Last night’s performance sticks out like a sore thumb because it never really felt like we were in control of that despite the early goal.

 

In other games this year, even the ones we’re we’ve ground out results, won late/narrowly, or even lost (Huddersfield away, Rotherham away, Cardiff home, Hull home, Bristol City home etc) we’ve dominated the game manage to get the opposition in a bit of a choke hold once we scored. As such we’ve always looked like we’ll hang on or scrape an equaliser. 
 

Last night we looked like we could very easily have come away with nothing. Sheffield Wednesday thoroughly deserved their point. They’re lacking quality of course, but they pressed us far higher than I expected and caused us a number of issues playing out from the back from the first minute onwards. 
 

We need to regroup, buck our ideas up and respond at West Brom. If we play like we did last night we will get punished and be leaving empty handed.

[Fox92]

10 minutes ago, phildw said:

We were literally seconds away from a controlled 1nil win and the reactions on here would have been good result move on. Its no good moaning about 'boring' football that puts us top of the league. That's how it is going to be this season, the tactics have been set out and they are clearly working. As I said all teams are going to have a few blips along the way but the key is to get out of this league at the first attempt or its normally a long hard battle after that. Maresca has clearly found a way (the table doesn't lie) if its boring it's boring, but you cant have it both ways. 

It was far from comfortable, lets be honest. We could/should have been 2-0 down before we even scored and a decent team would have been beating us. Yes we had more possession (wow, what did we do with it, again!?) but we had less shots on target than them.

[Nolucklcfc]

3 minutes ago, phildw said:

In this league everybody is beating everybody its a crazy league we can see that by the results. Leeds should have lost to little old Rotherham the other night so just because one team 'hammers' another it doesn't mean we should too that's just naive. You have to find a way to do well in this league and we have. It may be 'boring' to some who want to see hammerings every week because we got the most money in the league and the best training facilities but that's not realistic. Maresca and the squad have found that way and to me that's quality management. 

I get your point but I don’t think last night was good enough. Yes we have done incredibly well so far but it was a complacent performance. Why are we not even trying to kill the game off? 

[phildw]

1 minute ago, Nolucklcfc said:

I get your point but I don’t think last night was good enough. Yes we have done incredibly well so far but it was a complacent performance. Why are we not even trying to kill the game off? 

That final point is one I certainly agree with and I think that is the only missing ingredient with the way we play. We do need to push harder for that second or third goal that nearly came with McAteers attempt last night. Add that to our game and the blips will be few and far between. 

[sacreblueits442]

10 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

I thought the decision making was very poor tonight; one example being Fatawu who tried to curl one in from 30 yards when we were on the break which resulted in him getting dragged

...I  think this is the best part of his game!!!

  He pulled those shots off at his other club and I am not sure why he is lifting these shots high and handsome. When he runs out of ideas he does silly things just to get rid of the ball.

  Totally at a loss, if it is composure, his boots or this is a big step up for him, but he looks nowhere near what I believe he would be. I am surprised that Maresca has allowed him to get away with his poor decision making.

  He needs to work with him more.

[whoareyaaa]

1 hour ago, lennybhoy said:

Plan B...Put Souttar upfront ...sometimes football is that simple.We done it for years with Tags ,Walsh and Matt.But when you are Italian and have a fancy name,you have to overthink it.

Good managers adapt to games,I have yet to see Enzo do it

what a load of nonsense 

[Dahnsouff]

Plenty of understandably negative thinking after yesterday, but its not the reality as people are WAY to positive toward aggression based football, yes fans love to see it but its is not going to be consistently good, this is why Leeds are inconsistent, will Wednesday now kick on and fly up the table? Its easier to spend 90 minutes at high tempo if you only do it once in a blue moon.

 

We too should have scored more, had chances and our opening five minute sh*t show in defence has totally coloured people opinions, but as in the last few games (And after the aforementioned defensive calamities early in the game) our problems lie at the attacking end of the pitch, and admittedly yesterday, the changes must have played a significant part.

 

edit Our chance creation and finishing is still substandard, and has been so for quite a few games now, hopefully something we can look to address

Edited 30 November 2023 by Dahnsouff

[Qwerty]

Does anyone know if Faes is injured?  He got injured last night but seemed OK and played on, then was subbed off at half time.  

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, egg_fried_rice said:

A fresh manager, still learning

 

This isn't said anywhere near enough really. It's his first ever real, proper season in management (he didn't even last this long at Parma and really didn't have the support he does here.)

 

We're top, we're comfortably ahead of third and we've only dropped points in four games. 

 

And to be honest I don't think he did much wrong yesterday. Casadei and Akgun I think aren't good enough to be both starting in the midfield. They had zero presence. But we weren't going to know that until we tried it, we need to rotate and they're the worst team in the league, it was the right time to do so. 

 

End of the day, tactics, formations, systems, etc all only take you so far. The players that go out there have to perform and yesterday we didn't. To man we were absolutely awful. Whatever the reason, let's just draw a line under it and get on to the next match with hopefully a better showing. 

 

Sometimes you just have off days.