West Brom - Post match

[Beachyboy]

12 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...surprised the Baggies came at us this way, not a full press, just waited to press at the right time, deeper on the pitch!!!

A big opportunity missed by them it seems, as when they pressed us higher up the pitch our composure went out the window. With all the games that teams have come at us with and the success that they have had, WBA stuck to their preferred style and missed a big chance.

  Nice 3 points, but I can't help feeling there is more pain to come.

You have to remember that pressing is physically demanding, nobody can do it for 90 minutes even the top teams, even Liverpool in their pomp probably did it for 45 out of 90 minutes.

[LCFCJohn]

2 minutes ago, sbfox said:

I don't think we played 'counter attacking football' to score that winner. We didn't sit deep, soak up pressure and then hit them on the break. We defended a set piece, the ball broke luckily and their stupidity left them literally wide open. 

 

It doesn't really matter, but this shouldn't be fuel for the 'plan B' brigade. 

Literally the definition of a breakaway/counter attack goal. Bet you hated it 

 

What it means is that when some of us say we should go forward quickly and not always look to play backwards, theres

some truth in that no?

[sbfox]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Looked like a clear counter type move to me with KDH and Winks sprinting forward to score the winner.

I mean, it IS a counter, but we weren't playing a counter attacking style. Not that it matters really. 

[ithuriel]

Our away form is outstanding, just need a new striker in  Jan to give us more teeth when trying to take a bite out of the opposition.

[NaijaFox]

15 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

My frustration with managers and Enzo is by no means the first, is their negative tactics when a team goes 1-0 up.
 

Against Sheff Wed he brought Hamza on to hold the game. Today he brought Casadei on - although I suppose that Nacho was the one who started the break. 
 

A team 1-0 down in the closing minutes has to chase the game. The most effective way of defending is to play as far away from your own box as possible. Why not bring a fresh attacker or two on instead of inviting pressure? 
 

Though clearly I don’t know what I’m talking about as so many managers do it. Including our last three 
 

 Makes sense in some games, but not today nor against Wednesday on Wednesday.

[sbfox]

Just now, LCFCJohn said:

Literally the definition of a breakaway/counter attack goal. Bet you hated it 

 

What it means is that when some of us say we should go forward quickly and not always look to play backwards, theres

some truth in that no?

No, because there's no alternative in this example. It was a 3 on 1, there's nothing different that could be done.

 

No one has said what "going forward quickly" means yet. Long balls? Counter attacks? What? 

[splinterdream]

41 minutes ago, sishades said:

After that win Im sure you must be pulling something more.

I haven't the energy 🤣

[Beachyboy]

4 minutes ago, sbfox said:

I mean, it IS a counter, but we weren't playing a counter attacking style. Not that it matters really. 

How can you play a counter attacking style when you have 61% possession? You need to not be in possession of the ball to counter attack.

Edited 2 December 2023 by Beachyboy

[Lillehamring]

20 minutes ago, Tanya said:

What? Oh my goodness I never thought of that. Please elaborate, you giant football brain savant who isnt patronising at all. My goodness. 

 

Of course the opposition will step up you codswaddle. That is a given. If that is the case you keep the ball, probe, play the angles and still go for it when the gaps inevitably arise. You play like you have been for 75 minutes. You dont suddenly get frazzled and play scared. 

 

At the very least you keep the ball. You should also try and score too because 1-0 is an awfully slender lead.

 

Also this is twice in one week we went negative after we score late. I am very very glad we won. I am sure Enzo didnt like how passive we were for those 20 or so minutes. 

I wasn't intending to be patronising, merely sarcastic, given how wildly limited your observation was!  And that you ignored any element of this point it felt like you were another of these blinkered posters who have one idea and can't see beyond it.

 

 

To suggest we were 'negative' after scoring would be to suggest that we deliberately avoided going forward (which is totally untrue), that we didn't create much is unsurprising, obviously it's not that easy to attack when all of a sudden a decent team suddenly play up to their abilities and threw everything at you.

 

It's easy to say 'oh, we should try to score'. but to actually do it isn't so simple - and of course, as west brom proved, the higher you press for a goal the more vulnerable you are at the back

 

The fact is, it's a balancing act how much to push, how much to sit, and maresca, for me got it right, west brom stepped up their game and we consolidated ours (we still had 50+ possession, so yes at the very least we DID keep the ball) and in doing so we used up the clock and limited them to just 2 shots in 25 minutes.

 

 

[Chrysalis]

4 minutes ago, sbfox said:

I mean, it IS a counter, but we weren't playing a counter attacking style. Not that it matters really. 

Oh, I didnt say we were playing that for the game, and I never said we should be playing counter for the entire game as well.

[sbfox]

1 minute ago, Beachyboy said:

How can you play a counter attacking style when you have 61% possession? You need to not be in possession of the ball to counter attack.

Yeah, exactly. 

[urban.spaceman]

When you go to take a leaftlet then you realise it's from an Everton fan handing out their anti-Premier League stickers

 

 

 

[LCFCJohn]

Just now, sbfox said:

No, because there's no alternative in this example. It was a 3 on 1, there's nothing different that could be done.

 

No one has said what "going forward quickly" means yet. Long balls? Counter attacks? What? 

Tempo, for me it means playing with pace. That doesn’t mean long ball. But direct doesn’t mean the same as long ball. That goal was made purely from pace and playing quickly and directly to counter. 
 

Not every goal has to be 30+ passes and scored with 10 men behind the ball from the opposition! 

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, Beachyboy said:

How can you play a counter attacking style when you have 61% possession? You need to not be in possession of the ball to counter attack.

I find this point of view totally bizarre, its a very black and white point of view where people think you can only play one style for an entire game.

 

Yes you can play possession whilst also mixing in some counter attacks when the opportunity is there.  The top teams do it routinely.

 

So trying to spell it out, we played possession for majority of game, but we did a counter attack for the goal, is that possible to understand?

Edited 2 December 2023 by Chrysalis

[whoareyaaa]

3 minutes ago, ithuriel said:

Our away form is outstanding, just need a new striker in  Jan to give us more teeth when trying to take a bite out of the opposition.

maybe another winger as well who is not as raw as the current 3

[Guppys Love Child]

17 minutes ago, sbfox said:

Not sure this is fair. With a 3-1 counter, there is ONLY one way to attack. No manager will coach that situation any differently, because there's no other way to coach how that situation unfolded. 

Ok you are more than initialed to your opinion ( well it is a forum👍) but my final sentence was probably a key point to my post (and my posts in other threads) and maybe you could apply a smidge of tongue in cheek to the comment, but I do deeply think we need to mix up the style more and not stick so ridgeley to the pass the hell out of everything to 'find the Solution's' as per Enzo.

I guess what I'm alluding too is that maybe we should try to create more of these breakaway situations and not use the passing bore fest as a only way we play. 

[NaijaFox]

20 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...surprised the Baggies came at us this way, not a full press, just waited to press at the right time, deeper on the pitch!!!

A big opportunity missed by them it seems, as when they pressed us higher up the pitch our composure went out the window. With all the games that teams have come at us with and the success that they have had, WBA stuck to their preferred style and missed a big chance.

  Nice 3 points, but I can't help feeling there is more pain to come.

I suspect if they pressed us high up the pitch all of the time, we would resort to punting it upfield more frequently. 

[SixtiesFox]

Most important win of the season so far. Huge and much needed momentum shift. Players and coaches went just as mental as us fans! Thanks WBA for that kamikazi gift. Reminiscent of the breakaway goal to clinch a plafoff place at Forest!

[Chrysalis]

5 minutes ago, sbfox said:

No, because there's no alternative in this example. It was a 3 on 1, there's nothing different that could be done.

 

No one has said what "going forward quickly" means yet. Long balls? Counter attacks? What? 

You are over complicating it.

 

It can mean any of them.  If a forward pass is on, its a low pass on the ground, Vesty has done it several times earlier in the season.

It can mean dribbling forward with the ball, Both KDH and Ndidi have done it this season, Faes also.

It can mean a counter attack, we have scored a fair few goals from counters this season.  (thankfully we do this more often now than we did under rodgers).

It can of course mean a hoof.

 

At least you asked the question instead of saying "hoof brigade".

[sbfox]

2 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

Tempo, for me it means playing with pace. That doesn’t mean long ball. But direct doesn’t mean the same as long ball. That goal was made purely from pace and playing quickly and directly to counter. 
 

Not every goal has to be 30+ passes and scored with 10 men behind the ball from the opposition! 

The second goal is a poor example. We literally just ran in straight lines - no real 'skill'. 

 

Still not sure what playing with 'pace' means when you're playing against 11 men sat within 30 yards of their own goal, but sure. 

[Shamomoa]

8 minutes ago, ithuriel said:

Our away form is outstanding, just need a new striker in  Jan to give us more teeth when trying to take a bite out of the opposition.

Or use cannon that we haven't seen yet!

[Lillehamring]

31 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Fundamentally it sounds great, but in reality we had multiple occasions today where we either had Ndidi creating an overload for Fatawu or WBAs right back out of position and Enzo was shouting instructions to pass it backwards then applauding it according to LCFC commentary. 
 

It seems counter intuitive for Enzo to not want us to attack when WBA are in a vulnerable position so I don’t think he genuinely wants that, but at the same time I think Enzo seems like a perfectionist who wants to counter in a very specific way, created by the passing, and when chances that were not a direct result of drawing players out arise he doesn’t think it’s valuable to attack them. 
 

It makes no sense for him to not want to attack but it also makes no sense for him to be visibly applauding Fatawu passing the ball backwards when he has a defender out of position with Ndidi in the channel ahead of him on his own.

 

 

This didn't happen, regardless of what you heard - there were times when we went back - but these two were actually starting to really click and, but for a better final ball/finish, looked like our best route to a goal (which proved to be the case).

From the few shots i saw of maresca, it was usually frustration he expressed when we wasted good progression.  towards the end, we were operating some fine game management, with some passing phases that kept west brom out of the game - maybe that was what they were referencing?

 

I don't think it is that he doesn't want us to attack, it's more that he wants us to keep the ball, so picking our moments when to risk an attack or when to just keep the ball away from them, which we did pretty well.

[LCFCJohn]

3 minutes ago, Guppys Love Child said:

Ok you are more than initialed to your opinion ( well it is a forum👍) but my final sentence was probably a key point to my post (and my posts in other threads) and maybe you could apply a smidge of tongue in cheek to the comment, but I do deeply think we need to mix up the style more and not stick so ridgeley to the pass the hell out of everything to 'find the Solution's' as per Enzo.

I guess what I'm alluding too is that maybe we should try to create more of these breakaway situations and not use the passing bore fest as an only way we play. 

You are bang on in your posts but are wasting your time with some posters on here. It is clear some on here are almost embarrassed by us scoring a goal like that….weird! 

[Beachyboy]

I've come to the conclusion that a good 50% of people don't understand about the basic principles of football. How a lot of you can get so frustrated at something that from reading comments you don't even really understand is beyond me. 2 seasons ago the Europa Conference is shit May aswell not even bother. Last season correct prediction we are getting relegated in about November. This season oh my word we are gonna get relegated to league 1. Top of the table now, ah but it won't last, it's the style of football, it's awful. I remember hearing similar negativity top of the premiership in December 2015. Life is to be enjoyed.

Edited 2 December 2023 by Beachyboy

[Chrysalis]

1 minute ago, sbfox said:

The second goal is a poor example. We literally just ran in straight lines - no real 'skill'. 

 

Still not sure what playing with 'pace' means when you're playing against 11 men sat within 30 yards of their own goal, but sure. 

I think I see the issue now, you see things like that counter goal as "beneath" possession, because perhaps you feel possession is a higher level of football or something.  But in my opinion those type of goals still need skill, you have to get your pass right with the pace of the player moving forward, stay onside, and also a test of fitness and endurance as well as composure. 

 

But anyway, the goal proved you can mix in counter's whilst also playing possession.  We could have chosen not to snatch that chance and instead start passing it around, west brom go back into defensive shape, and then do you think we would have got the winner?

Edited 2 December 2023 by Chrysalis